Flathead V8 in an Airplane

[JAKEFORD]

I have a vague recollection of someone installing a V8 in a small plane. It may have been an aluminum block and was turned so the flywheel end turned the prop.

My files are a mess and I can't find any info. Does anyone remember?

[51 MERC-CT]

Not an aluminum block. gear reduction on flywheel end, steel tube fuselage, fabric covered.

[4dFord/SC]

Perhaps the Arrow Sport Model F?

[40cpe]

how did it cool?

[19Fordy]

I seem to recall that there was mention of an aluminum V-8 engine built for airplanes. It was aluminum and mentioned in this old HOT ROD magazine showing one of the last remaining aluminum block flattys on the cover.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCTOBER-1952...item419b371c87

[51 MERC-CT]

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Originally Posted by 40cpe

how did it cool?

Liquid cooled with a radiator that hung from the fuselage just behind the landing gear struts.

[SofaKing]

They also used the 4 cyl, model A engines in aircraft, Pietenpol AirCamper.

[41panelmark]

Ok might sound stupid but I am not familiar with it, so I was wondering how things worked in relation to the fuel when the plane went upside down or did you not do that?

[V8COOPMAN]

This SPORT has been hanging in one of the terminals at SFO (San Francisco) forever. This image shows the radiator quite well. DD

[jimvette59]

Must be a @%$#& with a carb and a float . JMHO

[SofaKing]

Gets real quiet, seat cushion gets sucked-in and you have a fun story, if you live.
If you keep a steady 1g loop the fuel will continue to feed at least until the float bowl is empty. My guess is there are few pilots with the skill to fly an aircraft with that low a power to weight ratio in a steady 1 g loop. This also assumes the airframe will take it. Certificated aircraft without inverted fuel and oil systems are not supposed to go inverted and the manufacturer will have a list of authorized manuevers in the flight handbook.
A real weak spot is the crankshaft when a car engine is installed in an aircraft. Car engine cranks not designed for propeller loads, see NTSB accident reports. But thousands of people are doing it successfully, at least temporarily.

[V8COOPMAN]

[QUOTE=SofaKing;1155961
A real weak spot is the crankshaft when a car engine is installed in an aircraft. Car engine cranks not designed for propeller loads, see NTSB accident reports.[/QUOTE]

It's clearly evident in the photo that the propeller is NOT attached to the crankshaft. The crank drives a reduction-type gearbox, as do most experimentals with auto engines. In fact, many production aircraft engines are "geared", or drive the prop through a reduction-type gearbox. The propeller loads are on the gearbox.......not the crankshaft flange. DD

[SofaKing]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

It's clearly evident in the photo that the propeller is NOT attached to the crankshaft. The crank drives a reduction-type gearbox, as do most experimentals with auto engines. In fact, many production aircraft engines are "geared", or drive the prop through a reduction-type gearbox. The propeller loads are on the gearbox.......not the crankshaft flange. DD

I am familiar with propeller reduction drives on experimental aircraft and agree many use them. From what I have observed at Oshkosh, most, or maybe "the smaller aircraft" is more accurate, simply turn the propeller faster to use the car engine's higher RPM power range. I also noticed the offset of the propeller hub on the pictured engine indicating that propeller is not bolted directly to the crank flange. I wonder though, when many people on this forum would not hang the weight of the engine from the cast bellhousing for fear of it cracking; how many would hang the weight of the engine, aircraft, fuel and themselves from that same cast bellhousing? Still it is an interesting mechanical exercise and shows the determination to get airborne. Probably sound real nice on take-off too.

[JSeery]

" I wonder though, when many people on this forum would not hang the weight of the engine from the cast bellhousing for fear of it cracking"

Apparently you haven't seen the results of cracked/broken bellhousings, LOL. There is no way you could support the weight of an engine in an aircraft mounted only by the bellhousing!

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by SofaKing

I wonder though, when many people on this forum would not hang the weight of the engine from the cast bellhousing for fear of it cracking; how many would hang the weight of the engine, aircraft, fuel and themselves from that same cast bellhousing? Still it is an interesting mechanical exercise and shows the determination to get airborne. Probably sound real nice on take-off too.

The bellhousing end of the engine is the front of the engine and at most is resting on the forward engine mount, not 'hung' on anything. The rear (water pump end ) of the engine is mounted on the engine cradle.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

The bellhousing end of the engine is the front of the engine and at most is resting on the forward engine mount, not 'hung' on anything. The rear (water pump end ) of the engine is mounted on the engine cradle.

I think he's referring to " Hanging it on the prop" where all the weights are hanging on the prop in a steep climb.
Bill

[SofaKing]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

I think he's referring to " Hanging it on the prop" where all the weights are hanging on the prop in a steep climb.
Bill

yes, also referring to the transfer of stress. The prop is a large gyroscope that is being moved out of its plane of rotation by the lever action of the entire aircraft starting at the rudder and elevators and focused at the prop hub. That's a 25 foot long, 1500 lb lever. In this case the prop hub is attached to the bell housing casting. The same bell housing casting that is not trusted to support a 150 lb, 2 foot long, bare block by many here, myself included. Its cool as hell but I don't want to fly behind it!

[klicker]

There is one of these at the WAAAM museum in Hood River, Oregon. Hangars full of early airplanes and cars. I'll try to dig up a picture

[5851a]

I enlarged the picture and it looks like there might be a crack at the bellhousing bolt and the gear box adapter doesn't look parallel to the bell. Might be just my eyes but it does make you think.

[4dFord/SC]

Don't know which make/model it was, but I recall my father describing his experience flying a Ford V-8 powered a/c early in his career. It was apparently a bit under-powered. He took off from the Oakland airport and it stayed on the deck almost all the way across the bay to San Francisco. It finally climbed enough that he could turn it around and head back to Oakland and land. He went on to fly for United, and later Northwest, for 30+ accident-free years. When asked if he'd ever been in any accidents, his standard reply was, "No, I made it a point never to take those trips." He was my hero, and I miss him.