T5 to torque tube adapter

[cranium]

Here is an adapter I make to put a jeep t5 behind your flathead and keep your torque tube. The one thing you do have to do is drill and tap the end of the jeep t5 output shaft. I have a few made up if anyone is interested. PM me for more details.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by cranium

Here is an adapter I make to put a jeep t5 behind your flathead and keep your torque tube. The one thing you do have to do is drill and tap the end of the jeep t5 output shaft. I have a few made up if anyone is interested. PM me for more details.

Are you KATO KINGS on the HAMB? DD

[cranium]

Yes.

[PeteVS]

How much longer than the traditional Ford 3 speed is the T5 with the adaptor? (How much does the torque tube / drive shaft have to be shortened?)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by cranium

Yes.

I believe this pic shows the parts you make for the Jeep version. I've found that the guys over on the Model A Forum seem to show much more interest in the "T5 / torque tube" set-up than the guys here on the V8 Forum. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by PeteVS

How much longer than the traditional Ford 3 speed is the T5 with the adaptor? (How much does the torque tube / drive shaft have to be shortened?)

We figure the Jeep version is just a little over 7" longer than an old Ford 3-speed. The T5 BOX is 9-1/4", and the Jeep 4X4 HOUSING is exactly 6" long. Compare that, plus 1/2" for his adapter, to the old Ford box length. DD

[Mart]

Interesting photo. Nice conversion. The adaption of the shaft is always the more hard to achieve part. With the V8s being a little more driveable over longer distances than an A might be part of the reason for an increased interest amongst the A crowd. Not wanting to cut a 32 crossmember is also a big factor.

Mart.

[gasolinedeniz]

which transmision do i exactly need for this conversion ?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by gasolinedeniz

which transmision do i exactly need for this conversion ?

gasolinedeniz.........Most any T5 main case can be used, but I prefer the Chevy-based cases as they are easier to adapt to a FLATHEAD engine...in my opinion. Then, you'll need a 23-spline mainshaft, as well as the tailshaft HOUSING along with the corresponding short shift rod for that tailshaft housing from an '82-'86 Jeep 4 X 4 with T5 trans.

Before you go out looking for parts, you would do well to know your rear end ratio, an approximate diameter of your REAR tires, and what your intended use for the car is. There are some almost USELESS gearsets that are available in some of these T5s, although the gearsets will ALL fit any T5 main case. Try to get it right the first time with the correct gearset. Do yourself a huge favor and read the thread that I posted covering this subject from start to finish. Pay particular attention to posts #3 and #4, although posts #1 thru#7 tell the entire story. They further explain some of the particulars in choosing T5 parts necessary for this adaptation. Click link below, or click on the "T5 W/TORQUE TUBE" at bottom, left of THIS post. Come back with any questions you may have. DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...T5+TORQUE+TUBE

[gasolinedeniz]

thank you :-)

[gasolinedeniz]

i gonna read your article now :-)

[Ol' Ron]

Nice looking modification. Pau attention to what Coop says.

[cranium]

I have a few more adapters available. PM for more info.

[JSeery]

I agree with Coop on the Chevy case except it is possible to use a Ford pattern T5 adapter with a hogshead (my preference) and the Ford mustang T5 tend to have the better gear ratios from the get-go. If you are wanting to use the alum bellhousing then the Chevy pattern T5 is the way to go.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

I agree with Coop on the Chevy case except it is possible to use a Ford pattern T5 adapter with a hogshead (my preference) and the Ford mustang T5 tend to have the better gear ratios from the get-go. If you are wanting to use the alum bellhousing then the Chevy pattern T5 is the way to go.

JSeery is pretty sharp about these old T5 boxes and their guts. Keep in mind here that no matter which trans is used (Chevy or Ford) for this adaptation/project, it's gotta be a NWC gearset to be compatible with the Jeep parts, as that 4X4 trans was only produced in NWC form. The early Chevys and Ford T5s were BOTH available with the 2.95 1st gear ratio that JSeery and I continue to promote. The neat point that I believe makes the decision a little "cleaner" is that using the Chevy box along with the 26-spline input shaft (2.95 1st) does not require the thick aluminum adapter plate between the Chevy transmission case and the aftermarket bell adapter. I BELIEVE that all the Chevy 26-spline input shafts are the same length. It seems like the Ford input shafts can be of varying lengths, requiring different thickness aluminum adapters........Seery will know the answer to THAT with certainty. DD

I just think this combo using the Chevy case, and WITHOUT the aluminum plate, is about as clean as it gets.

[JSeery]

Both the Ford and Chevy input shafts come in different lengths, but it might be a little less common among the Chevy line. I was not familiar with the jeep being NWC only. That would make the Chevy a better option (maybe) as the NWC Fords tend to have the long input shafts.

Coop, that is a clean setup!

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Both the Ford and Chevy input shafts come in different lengths, but it might be a little less common among the Chevy line. I was not familiar with the jeep being NWC only. That would make the Chevy a better option (maybe) as the NWC Fords tend to have the long input shafts.

Coop, that is a clean setup!

You guys ought to put together a "T5 Bible" if it hasn't already been done. Id have to read it 5 times before I understood it.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

You guys ought to put together a "T5 Bible" if it hasn't already been done.

Amen.

[47Sooner]

Great information. I'd love to do one of these in my 37 pickup, especially since it came with no engine and trans. I enjoy driving my 36 pickup around town but finding those gears can be a challenge some times, but I'm getting better.

[Kahuna]

Coop
As I recall, Gene Sanders (Model Engineering: We are only 32) makes a nice aluminum adapter for Flathead to T-5.
I have one of his for Flathead to Toploader 4 speed. Nice product.
Jim

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

You guys ought to put together a "T5 Bible" if it hasn't already been done. Id have to read it 5 times before I understood it.

There are a couple of individuals who have put together detailed T5 information available online. Problem is there are a lot of different variations when it comes to individual approaches. I perfer an open driveshaft with a guickchange rear axle. Coop has a cool setup for a closed driveshaft. I prefer the Ford T5z. So, a lot of this depends on personal teaste and goals.

[Jcurt40]

Originally Posted by cranium

Here is an adapter I make to put a jeep t5 behind your flathead and keep your torque tube. The one thing you do have to do is drill and tap the end of the jeep t5 output shaft. I have a few made up if anyone is interested. PM me for more details.

I’m interested in buying the adapter 203-909-2829 Curt

[hotrodder3031]

Q: is there a open Drive yoke I can bolt to the back of the Jeep T5
So I can run my Quick change
I want to use the trans mount shown this is why I ask.
thank you

[JSeery]

I have no idea on the Jeep T5, Coop may know.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hotrodder3031

Q: is there a open Drive yoke I can bolt to the back of the Jeep T5
So I can run my Quick change
I want to use the trans mount shown this is why I ask.
thank you

You know, I've been thinking about your query for an hour now. When you say "trans mount", are you referring to the Jeep output housing like the black one in this picture?





Whether yes, or no, I believe I would be reluctant to try to run this set-up with an open-drive drive shaft. Even in the case of the original Jeep application, this set-up was not designed to have the output shaft transmitting power UN-SUPPORTED at the rear. You must remember that the rear (output) side of this housing was bolted solidly to a transfer case, with the 23-spline output shaft being supported (guided) laterally by a fixed gear inside the transfer case supported solidly by a fixed bearing. In other words, there was no way for the shaft to be able to wiggle left, right, up or down. The only thing at the rear of this Jeep housing is a seal.


In our "Torque Tube" iteration, the seal is given a surface to seal on via the smooth, round outer surface on the spline adapter. As far as the lateral support I speak of, the front end of the Ford drive shaft rides in a bushing at the front end of the torque tube which does not allow any lateral wiggling of the drive shaft. Since this U-Joint only has ONE pivoting point, it acts as a solid support for the rear of the Jeep output shaft. Without THAT support or guide offered by the torque tube bushing, the rearmost 6" or so of the Jeep output shaft is not supported laterally behind the rear main shaft bearing at the rear of the main case. I wouldn't suggest trying to run an un-supported yoke like that. Think about the support bushing you normally see a yoke fitted-through at the rear end of an output shaft housing. That support is there for a reason. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! The pics below depict the seal at the rear of the housing, and the surface on the spline adapter that rides on the seal, yet does NOT prevent lateral movement. Would love to hear yours' or anyone elses comments on this. DD

















……………….

[Pete]

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[QUOTE=V8COOPMAN;1485323] I just think this combo using the Chevy case, and WITHOUT the aluminum plate, is about as clean as it gets.


Close, but not quite. A SBC Lakewood scatter shield can be redrilled to fit an 8ba block. Then the Chev T5 bolts up direct. No adaptor.

[davey1939]

Originally Posted by cranium

Here is an adapter I make to put a jeep t5 behind your flathead and keep your torque tube. The one thing you do have to do is drill and tap the end of the jeep t5 output shaft. I have a few made up if anyone is interested. PM me for more details.

I would like to purchase an adapter. Thanks,Davey

[bobH]

DD, aren't there other original T5 extension housings that could be used to support an output yoke? I'm just babbling here, but I suspect you know what all parts are available.
And, if there is no way to do it with factory parts, I don't see any reason that it couldn't be done with a little 'engineering' and access to a shop mill/lathe. I still think there ought to be a way with factory parts, considering that the majority of T5's (non-Jeep 4x4) have an extension housing with output yoke. DD?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by bobH

DD, aren't there other original T5 extension housings that could be used to support an output yoke? I'm just babbling here, but I suspect you know what all parts are available.
And, if there is no way to do it with factory parts, I don't see any reason that it couldn't be done with a little 'engineering' and access to a shop mill/lathe. I still think there ought to be a way with factory parts, considering that the majority of T5's (non-Jeep 4x4) have an extension housing with output yoke. DD?

I'm like bobH, in that I'm not understanding the obsession with that goofy Jeep stuff, unless "SHORT" is the key to your need. That Jeep has a 23-spline output, and there ain't many yokes in that flavor that I am aware of. Since the guy is going OPEN DRIVE, why not just go with an everyday S-10 tail housing, or a Camaro, and use an everyday Chevy 27-spline yoke, plus enjoy the support of the bushing and seal at rear? Am I missing something?

In our Torque Tube iteration, using the Jeep stuff was the only way to make a T5 that short, which we needed to keep a part of the center crossmember.

I have seen an aluminum plate machined to bolt onto the S-10 4X4 rear housing that takes a bearing and a seal. But that Chevy 4X4 housing is about 4" longer than the Jeep housing we used. Below is our Jeep version.




Below is the S-10 4X4 rear housing....I believe just a little over four inches longer than the Jeep housing. It is actually longer than the T5 Main Case. DD



.


.

[Tim Ayers]

If I recall reading that the Jeep main shaft is getting to be like hen's teeth. Is that accurate, Coop?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

If I recall reading that the Jeep main shaft is getting to be like hen's teeth. Is that accurate, Coop?

For sure, they ain't growing on trees any more, but they're still out there. Most are not going to be particularly cheap. As far as I've been able to determine, the Jeep T5s are all "NWC" (with those funny grooves), and you have to be careful as I've seen some "supposed to be" Jeep shafts advertised as "WC". Below is an example on eBay right now for a 'real' "NWC" shaft. In fact, I've found three over there on 'The Bay' tonight without even trying hard.

And don't forget that we have FordBarn member "CRANIUM" who makes that beautiful 23-spline adapter, and he sometimes has the shafts and extension housings available. DD


https://www.ebay.com/itm/30239719277...pid=2148182315

[01C83]

Do you still make this adapter- aluminum plate and spline adapter? Thanks for letting me know.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 01C83

Do you still make this adapter- aluminum plate and spline adapter? Thanks for letting me know.

01C83 ....As I have said before, neither "Heard" nor myself make any of these parts to supply to the public. There is a guy that goes by the screen name "CRANIUM" here on FordBarn who makes the aluminum adapter plate and the all-important SPLINE ADAPTER, although with some experience, many folks can make the aluminum adapter plate at home like we did. "CRANIUM" has not checked-in here on FordBarn since September, but you can try sending him a PM (once you have 10 or more posts to your credit) in the hope that he checks-in here soon. You can PM him directly via the link BELOW.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/priva...o=newpm&u=6182

CRANIUM also goes by "KATO KINGS" over on the H.A.M.B. He seems to hang-out over there more frequently than here on the 'Barn, and you may try contacting him over there. DD
.



.

[Ol' Ron]

After due consideration, I would think that installing a modern rear axle, instead of spending all that money to modify the trans. A Spicer 44 from a Jeep grand Cherokee are not very expensive and come with Posi/ I used a triangulated rear suspension and coils for the rear suspension. Bur Chassis engineering makes a conversion. Then you have the BEST of both worlds

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

After due consideration, I would think that installing a modern rear axle, instead of spending all that money to modify the trans. A Spicer 44 from a Jeep grand Cherokee are not very expensive and come with Posi/ I used a triangulated rear suspension and coils for the rear suspension. Bur Chassis engineering makes a conversion. Then you have the BEST of both worlds

I know two different Grand Cherokee owners, both original owners, both older folks driving sanely, and both having SERIOUS rear end problems with them. You just never hear of an 8-inch (or 9-inch) Ford rear end having a problem, plus you can get service and parts for them ANYWHERE! Gear selection and available upgrades just can NOT be beat! DD
.

[Ol' Ron]

DD, your probably right, I just can't afford a 8" or9". Actually the 9" is alittle over kill for a flathead as the weight of the rear axle determines ride quality. So,, If you have the bucks go with the 8". I use the spicer44 because it's the only one I can afford. With that said. I've never had a problem with one. What ever rear you use, modifying the trans is not a smart move.
Grampst

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

DD, your probably right, I just can't afford a 8" or9". So,, If you have the bucks go with the 8". I use the spicer44 because it's the only one I can afford. What ever rear you use, modifying the trans is not a smart move.
Grampst

Hey Ron ....I understand the economics aspect of your choice in rear ends....you use what you can manage to afford.

Now ...MODIFYING THE TRANS? Whether it is a SMART move or not, it's not for the faint of heart. The reason we modified the T5 was mainly for "space" considerations. There is limited space in just about all old Fords when it comes to thinking about OVERDRIVE-like modifications. And for those of us that have gotten those 'clutch pedal side-steps' and 'smoky burnouts' out of our systems a long time ago, there is still a lot to be said for the inherent geometry found in Henry's buggy sprung banjo rear end and torque tube. You put that rear end together correctly and drive it sensibly, it'll survive a lot of "spirited" driving. Hell, you can even overcome the cracked axle and tapered hub problems that these nostalgic rear ends are known for by adapting The Hot Rod Works' (of Idaho) late Ford axle package. The geometry still works un-altered, and that traditional "Banjo-look" is difficult to beat for us hard-core ol' hot rodders.

For those that have taken the time to realize it, the folks that originally designed the T5 basic structure did one hell of a job in making the transmission so susceptible to modifications or tailoring to specific needs by simply swapping factory Borg-Warner parts. If you want a SHORT, medium duty overdrive transmission, with FIVE speeds for those that know what tailored close-ratio gears can do for your driving experience and conditions, there is no other BASE transmission that I know of to start with. Our main premise was to end-up with a SHORT transmission that reasonably met the criteria mentioned above, and Borg-Warner's original T5 easily met those criteria. I continue to use a picture of our "SHORTY" T5 that we created through swapping-around some little-known factory parts that simply bolt together. This is one nicely-ratio'd, five-speed, smooth-shifting, SHORT overdrive transmission. That's WHY we modify a transmission in this case. The MAIN case is 9-1/4" from front face to back. Then, the REAR, Jeep tail housing is exactly 6" front to rear. Then we have a 1/2" thick aluminum plate which completes the adaptation to the STOCK old Ford torque tube pieces....a pretty compact package after modifications. DD

[Ol' Ron]

I must say, the workman ship and engineering of this product is beyond exelent. along with a hotrod works reworked stock axle, are things many people like me dream of. I just want the adverage builder to have some options that work quite wel with a fractioon of the cost.
At present most of my time and effort has been the development of a better intake port. Designing the flathead valve bowl eliminator was the hardes part, now manufacturing these parts is the next issue. I'm fortunate in the fact that i have a few friends that have the necessary skills to make tem' I also designed a power file from a sawall to make the laminar flow ports. My health prevents me from spending too many hours in the shop. The idea came to me back in 96 when the SBC came out with the Vortec heads, with smaller valves and more hP. The key to Horsepower is to move the torque curve up inRPM's at presen the best ports stop around 45/4800 rpms. As JWL says you can't improve flow even if you remove the valve. Maybe thats whu 2 cycles rev so well.
With all this said, It may not work, but atleast it's something to do.
Gramps