$15.00/Part Release...NOT GOOD!

[Steve Plucker]

Got this email from the Ford Archives today.

NOT GOOD...

Hi Steve,

We received your request for Parts Drawing releases today and we’d like to thank you for your continued interest in the collections of The Henry Ford.

There has been some changes to our part drawing collection as well as a new agreement with Ford Motor Company which is spelt out on page 3 of the form, http://www.thehenryford.org/pdf/parts_form.pdf and notes the biggest change being that releases are now $15 per release #.

You have requested 21 releases @ $15 would be $315. If you would like to move forward with all 21 we will need you to submit the difference of payment of $210 for us to move forward.

If you would like us to move forward with your request in a different way please let me know.

Thank you again and I look forward to hearing from you.

Stephanie

Stephanie Lucas
Research Specialist
The Henry Ford

It has been fun but my pockets are not deep enough for this anymore...I have asked for a refund...

Pluck

[Franchise_24]

Sorry to hear about those changes Steve. Thanks for all you do.

[tbirdtbird]

Ford balancing the budget on the backs of restorers again? Just like the Part number deal....

[bikejunk]

could something be worked out with one or both of the national organizations to pay for this research ?

[DANA BIZZELL]

Not good pr on Ford's behalf, Ford Barn is good advertising for Ford, looks like they would be glad to help.

[redmodelt]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I thought the per sheet price was 20 or 30 $, at least that's what I have heard for the Model T sheets.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

I thought the per sheet price was 20 or 30 $, at least that's what I have heard for the Model T sheets.

That is a DRAWING...Not a Part Release.

Pluck

[Greg Jones]

Maybe she has her facts mixed up, kind of like her command of the English language.

[mot]

and to think of all the publicity and good will the
international Ford day does for them
thousands of ford owners showing Ford products all over the world
they must be laughing their heads off at us

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by mot

and to think of all the publicity and good will the
international Ford day does for them
thousands of ford owners showing Ford products all over the world
they must be laughing their heads off at us

Well...Maybe that is "Ford's Way" of doing things!

[Rowdy]

So much for the 27 prints I need for the wood for the delivery. Rod

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Greg Jones

Maybe she has her facts mixed up, kind of like her command of the English language.

And "Hi Steve,"?

Way too personal, unless she is a personal acquaintance.

Astonishingly unprofessional for corporate communications.

[Charlville]

More of the "new Ford" it would appear, like the rich history they had here in the UK, which apparently meant nothing as they disappeared in to the Turkish sunset... Very sad and short sighted, much the same as this situation

[nickair]

Maybe database it? Share the cost with others. Ford may need to approve.

[Great Lakes Greg]

Originally Posted by Greg Jones

Maybe she has her facts mixed up, kind of like her command of the English language.

I don't think "spelt" is a word?

[34Fordtk]

You guys could be dealing with GM, great ignition switches, bail outs, cover ups on said switches........................

[abachman3]

Just to make sure that you know that 'Spelt' is an ancient grain that is making a comeback and is regularly part of a multigrain mix for breads today.

[Brian T]

Originally Posted by 34Fordtk

You guys could be dealing with GM, great ignition switches, bail outs, cover ups on said switches........................

I was thinking the same thing, you could add Chrysler products , imagine having a Dodge and a Fiat in your garage, you would be able to hear them rusting away in stereo.

[Joe K]

So this is a TRIPLING of price? Was $5 (total $105) and now $315?

Maybe a new Ford pickup is NOT in my future? Not with product support like that.

And these are parts whose development was fully amortized back in the 1930s? And the manufacturer (Ford) has chosen not to continue making for reasons of (of course) non-profitability?

So in effect, Ford has no use for these drawings?

And now could be (should be) provided at the cost of electronic duplication and transfer?

I've timed myself getting copies from my company's documentum. It's about a minute a sheet including walking over to the printer. 20 minutes brings me the entire nuclear module structural drawings for correction or information.

An electronic transfer could be completed in less time (and frequently is by the documentum people themselves when they are called upon to do it.)

Sorry. I know a moneymaker when I see one.

Joe K

[Rowdy]

Does it make good beer? With things being as they are a new beer might help. Rod

[160B]

Originally Posted by abachman3

Just to make sure that you know that 'Spelt' is an ancient grain that is making a comeback and is regularly part of a multigrain mix for breads today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelt

Spelt, also known as dinkel wheat,[2] or hulled wheat,[2] is a species of wheat cultivated since 5000 BCE. Spelt was an important staple in parts of Europe from the Bronze Age to medieval times; it now survives as a relict crop in Central Europe and northern Spain and has found a new market as a health food. Spelt is sometimes considered a subspecies of the closely related species common wheat (T. aestivum), in which case its botanical name is considered to be Triticum aestivum subsp. spelta. It is a hexaploid wheat, which means it has six sets of chromosomes

[GordonJ]

Steve - I realize this causes considerable expense when you are looking for a number of releases, but I took a look at the PDF form for ordering and it says that the pricing of $30 for a digital file of a Drawing on a CD and $15 for Release on a CD has been in effect since 1/2/13. Is this the first time you have ordered since 2013?

Regarding the comments about amortization of development cost and no real use for these prints for Ford, both of those statements are true but this is "intellectual property" belonging to Ford Motor Company and, as such, it has value. A company can chose to generate income from this resource or consider giving it away as some have suggested. For a company which in business to make money for its shareholders, I understand when they choose to charge for this even though I may not like the costs.

[700rpm]

"Spelt" is an old past tense version of "spelled" going back to the 17th c., and is still acceptable today when referencing how a word is...um... spelled. I'm not so sure about her usage of it.

[Dave in MN]

I know that the Model A Ford Foundation, MAFFI, currently has it's hands full with raising funds for the new Museum and its continued operation but should purchasing a digital copy of all the Model A drawings and Part releases be their next great effort? Maybe Ford would make a deal with MAFFI...
I can only imagine the difficulty considering Ford's possible concerns about "Personal Use" and "Commercial Use" of the information. Has anyone asked? I have an email sent to the current President at MAFFI, Stan Johnson, posing the same question. I'll keep you guys posted.
FWIW: I would contribute to this cause so guys like Steve Plucker could continue their research.
Good Day!

http://www.maffi.org/index.htm

Stan Johnson, MAFFI President, quickly replied to my email saying MAFFI volunteers... "spent many hours in the Benson Ford Research Center indexing all the drawings. During the time we were doing it we made an offer to buy the BFRC a complete scanning station to create digital drawings of the old microfiche-type records. They refused fearing loss of control and reduction of value of their holdings."

[mhsprecher]

I suggest that maybe the two Model A clubs and MAFFI write to comment about the costs involved. Like most businesses, they must pay attention to their customers. As mentioned above, this is intellectual property and corporations are out to get every dollar they can,but it can't hurt to complain in writing.

An interesting related point is that back in the Model T days, Henry Ford wanted to reinvest most profits in his product and production capabilities. His shareholders, which included the Dodge brothers, wanted him to pay dividends to them. They sued him and won, helping to establish shareholder rights in the United States.

[700rpm]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

$100, $300, whatever. This is chump change to a corporation the size of Ford. They could sell this stuff for $1 or $1000, or even $10,000, and it would have no significant impact on their bottom line, their stock price, or their shareholders. It really should be a PR plus for them, as any support for a hobby that demonstrates their product has lasted for over 80 years, but their attorneys don't understand or care about PR, and apparently the decision makers at Ford only listen to the law dept., not the marketing dept.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Greg

I don't think "spelt" is a word?

Ya.....she knows Pluck.....and what he dose....

"Spelt, also known as dinkel wheat,[2] or hulled wheat,[2] is a species of wheat "

LOL....

Sorry 160...I didn't see you post..

[tbirdtbird]

700rpm is right on.....

[mhsprecher]

Not the law department, finance. Finance really runs the show and the lawyers are there to make everything really complicated. It may be that every department needs to show break even or a profit or it is axed. It may be that it has to show a certain return on investment. Even profitable products are killed if the profit does not meet the targets. Those are dollars that could be spent on R&D or executive salaries!

I am a Ford shareholder. I have wanted to go to their shareholders' meeting, but it is always on a work day. It is even close enough for it to be a day trip.

[desotoguy]

She was raised up in the South. We still use the work spelt. And our cars have motors.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

$100, $300, whatever. This is chump change to a corporation the size of Ford. They could sell this stuff for $1 or $1000, or even $10,000, and it would have no significant impact on their bottom line, their stock price, or their shareholders. It really should be a PR plus for them, as any support for a hobby that demonstrates their product has lasted for over 80 years, but their attorneys don't understand or care about PR, and apparently the decision makers at Ford only listen to the law dept., not the marketing dept.

dont forget the bean counter department!!!

last i heard it was $7-$10k a minute their main assembly line was down...

and i highly doubt they would sell it to the main groups for 2 reasons:

1 Why charge $15 for a one time thing for a group that's just going to give them away to hundreds when they can charge each one of those hundreds of people $15 each?

2 Like most things need special approval in writing to resell or share commercially information you bought (much like charging people money to publicly watch a DVD you bought from a store)

also dont forget the saying that will always be true: "Money makes the world go 'round."

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I guess the main question I have is; Is Bensen and The Henry Ford really under the direct ownership of Ford Motor Company? My belief is that it isn't, ....simply because I get a report (as a paying member of The Henry Ford) that shows a financial report. It shows nothing to do with Ford Mtr. Company or any other subsidiary as far as expenditures or income.

I guess the way I have always viewed THF or Bensen is it is 'business' that is working under a Non-Profit governmental status just to benefit from those rules/laws. Whether we like it or not, they must generate revenue to cover their 'over-head' and general operating expenses. THAT is why they charge for services they offer.

[daveymc29]

A while back I had a Lincoln Town-car that the paint had started to peal off of. This was a garage kept car and only a couple of years old. The dealer told me to call "Corporate." I did and had to leave a message. Several weeks later someone representing themselves as the rep. for Town-cars from Ontario, Canada called me. our conversation ended with him explaining to me proudly that they sell every town car they build and they can't build them any faster, so they know we are pleased with their product, or we wouldn't buy it, therefore no help will be forthcoming. Good bye and good luck. They just don't care.

[Mike V. Florida]

It costs money to maintain and staff the research center. Ford most likely charged a flat rate yearly amount for the rights to hand out the documentation. This amount went up as I'm sure the cost of everything related to the center, wages, utilities, and the like. These costs have to be passed on if monies do not appear elsewhere.

Does it suck that the price tripled, it sure does.

How about posting the numbers you are looking for as maybe a fellow barner has them. how about asking for donations on one of those web sites that help raise funds? I would chip in a few bucks.

[Brian T]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Greg

I don't think "spelt" is a word?

It is providing it is followed by out.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Brian T

It is providing it is followed by out.

verb
1. a simple past tense and past participle of spell.

verb (used with object), spelled or spelt, spelling.

[brito36]

When you order a print, it takes time to locate, scan, clean up, and mail the print to you. (It's not a fifteen minute job) The daily operation of running the archives is very expensive. It is a business, and if the business operates at a loss, it won't be long before the business will close. The cost of the prints are cheap, compared with what it costs to store and keep them. It is a small price for what you get. Just think of it as a donation, or helping preserve what we have. Ford is about the only source of information that we have for our Model A's.

[tbirdtbird]

The OP's letter indicated that it was Ford itself that was responsible for for the increase

[brito36]

I believe that the Benson Ford Research Center is a different entity from the Ford Motor Company. The Ford Motor Company has its own archives. Dealing with the Ford Motor archives is like dealing with big business. They have a 'legal council' that makes decisions when it comes to information that is requested by the public.

[Pickupman]

Originally Posted by brito36

I believe that the Benson Ford Research Center is a different entity from the Ford Motor Company. The Ford Motor Company has its own archives. Dealing with the Ford Motor archives is like dealing with big business. They have a 'legal council' that makes decisions when it comes to information that is requested by the public.

Where is the Ford Archives that you reference? The only known Archives for the Model A Ford that I've been to is the Benson Ford Archives. Please explain this.

[Lowell Fast]

I think they just consider it as waste of their valuable time.