Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2018, 06:14 AM   #1
1934
Senior Member
 
1934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 368
Default slow cranking when hot

My car starts normally when cold but turns over very slowly when I start it when it's hot. I have checked and cleaned the ground wire and all other connections. I've tried 3 different starters, (all of which bench-tested ok). Rebuilt coil from Skip, NOS condenser, good battery, etc. Any ideas what to try next?
Thanks, Doug.
1934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 06:59 AM   #2
BW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 227
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

I was always told that timing will do this.
BW is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-16-2018, 07:26 AM   #3
swanwaco32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: KC
Posts: 247
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Put a 8v volt battery in it..!!! Be sure to increase the voltage output of the generator to keep it charged. your lights and other functions can remain the same..
swanwaco32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:25 AM   #4
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,607
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanwaco32 View Post
Put a 8v volt battery in it..!!! Be sure to increase the voltage output of the generator to keep it charged. your lights and other functions can remain the same..
Masking the symptom rather than curing the underlying problem is seldom a good idea. 8 volt batteries are for old worn out tractors that nobody wants to spend any time on, not prized collector autos. If you want to try a better battery, get an Optima. Otherwise it's connections, grounds, and cable size. One last thing; you do have the bracket that holds the back end of the starter up to the pan rail, don't you? I had to ask.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:49 AM   #5
rockfla
Senior Member
 
rockfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,822
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

after you check and have the bracket that holds the starter in line and positively in place make sure you have the correct size (Diameter) cables for both cables, a 6V system uses much larger battery cables than a 12V system. A quick way to make sure your cables are big enough is when cranking your car reach down and feel the positive side cable, if its hot by the time the car cranks, its too small of a cable. And the longer the positive cable, the bigger it needs to be. "Ought- O " diameter cable is the recommended starting size at least ,"00" is even better. Second would be the condenser, even though its a NOS one it could be failing when it gets hot....there have been "Several" post here on the barn on how to check your condenser and should be able to search that relatively quick and easy.
rockfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:59 AM   #6
RKS.PA
Senior Member
 
RKS.PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 849
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Did you recently rebuild your block?
RKS.PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #7
1934
Senior Member
 
1934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 368
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Thanks for the input, guys. I guess I'm missing something because I don't have any kind of bracket holding the back end of the starter??? There's just the 2 long bolts that hold the starter on. This is a '37 motor- was there supposed to be a bracket? Does this act as a ground as well?
I will try changing the condenser- I have several that are supposed to be NOS. The battery cables are new repros and supposed to be the right size.
Doug
1934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #8
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,755
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

As noted, feel the cables, ground cable also. If anything is hot, there's your problem. Could be a bad connection between the cable and cable end.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 12:18 PM   #9
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,607
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

As far as I know, all flathead V8's had the bracket. Without it, the mass of the starter pulls it downward just enough to cock the starter which can cause a slight misalignment that could be your problem. The bracket is a simple "L"-shaped piece of steel with two (actually three; one is an oval shaped hole for lightening, I guess) holes in it. One of the long bolts passes through it, while the other "leg" is fastened by the appropriate oil pan attaching bolt. I'm sure they are available. You really should have one installed.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 12:25 PM   #10
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 11,822
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

The little starter support clips are available. It just bolts to one of the starter bolts and the other to the pan rail. I'm not as familiar with the old 21 stud set ups but most of the early fords I've come across have them. They were misplaced by previous owners a lot.

If your ignition distributor advance unit is sticking, it could be holding it advanced which could slow the start process. If you turn the starter with ignition off, it should turn normally since it can't try to kick back with the ignition off. If that test has no effect then something else has high resistance and is causing an excessive current draw. Checks for heat in the conductor cables have already been mentioned. A weak battery can get hot if the generator is working overtime trying to keep it charged.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 12:34 PM   #11
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,919
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Masking the symptom rather than curing the underlying problem is seldom a good idea. 8 volt batteries are for old worn out tractors that nobody wants to spend any time on, not prized collector autos. If you want to try a better battery, get an Optima. Otherwise it's connections, grounds, and cable size. One last thing; you do have the bracket that holds the back end of the starter up to the pan rail, don't you? I had to ask.




Or ignition timing if the starter has been ruled out.


Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 12:40 PM   #12
B-O-B
Senior Member
 
B-O-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ft Mohave,Az
Posts: 1,804
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Reds Vintage Parts
Brace #81A-11140B or 8A-11140
B-O-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 01:52 PM   #13
rockfla
Senior Member
 
rockfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,822
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
As far as I know, all flathead V8's had the bracket. Without it, the mass of the starter pulls it downward just enough to cock the starter which can cause a slight misalignment that could be your problem. The bracket is a simple "L"-shaped piece of steel with two (actually three; one is an oval shaped hole for lightening, I guess) holes in it. One of the long bolts passes through it, while the other "leg" is fastened by the appropriate oil pan attaching bolt. I'm sure they are available. You really should have one installed.
Plus its one more point of ground (so to speak). I know one fellow with a 50 F1 had the same issue as you and he went through and grounded everything to everything and it sure cured his issue!!!`Motor to frame motor to body, motor to starter visa vie the anchor bracket etc etc.
rockfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 02:19 PM   #14
Shu47
Senior Member
 
Shu47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Maltby, Washington
Posts: 156
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Why would timing affect how fast the starter turns over the engine? I understand how it could affect how quickly the engine fires up or if it will fire up at all but I don't understand how it will make the engine turn over slowly which is what I interpret the OP was asking about. I am not criticizing anybody's suggestion just trying to learn.
Shu47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #15
rockfla
Senior Member
 
rockfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,822
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shu47 View Post
Why would timing affect how fast the starter turns over the engine? I understand how it could affect how quickly the engine fires up or if it will fire up at all but I don't understand how it will make the engine turn over slowly which is what I interpret the OP was asking about. I am not criticizing anybody's suggestion just trying to learn.

SHu47 I'd like to learn too!!!
rockfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 03:01 PM   #16
petehoovie
Senior Member
 
petehoovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,877
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
As far as I know, all flathead V8's had the bracket. Without it, the mass of the starter pulls it downward just enough to cock the starter which can cause a slight misalignment that could be your problem. The bracket is a simple "L"-shaped piece of steel with two (actually three; one is an oval shaped hole for lightening, I guess) holes in it. One of the long bolts passes through it, while the other "leg" is fastened by the appropriate oil pan attaching bolt. I'm sure they are available. You really should have one installed.
Given the part numbers, I don't think the 'L' shaped starter support bracket 81A-11140-B and 8A-11140 was available prior to 1938.

FOR ALL 1938 MODELS FORD SPECIAL SHOP NOTES

STARTER SUPPORT BRACE:—To correct thump or
pound in engine when accelerated between 18 and
28 M.P.H., special starter motor to oil pan brace
82-A-11140-A1 (60 Engine), 81-A-11140 (85 Engine)
should be installed. Fasten this brace or bracket
to starter through-bolt at starter end, remove one
oil pan to cylinder block bolt and replace with
special bolt 20426-S (60 Engine), 20426-S2 (85 Engine)
to hold opposite end.
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes." - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
petehoovie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 03:02 PM   #17
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,755
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
As far as I know, all flathead V8's had the bracket. Without it, the mass of the starter pulls it downward just enough to cock the starter which can cause a slight misalignment that could be your problem. The bracket is a simple "L"-shaped piece of steel with two (actually three; one is an oval shaped hole for lightening, I guess) holes in it. One of the long bolts passes through it, while the other "leg" is fastened by the appropriate oil pan attaching bolt. I'm sure they are available. You really should have one installed.
I don't think that bracket was used until 37 or 38.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:04 PM   #18
1934
Senior Member
 
1934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 368
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

I never considered timing as the culprit because the car runs well- never stalls or hesitates, lots of power, idles well and never over-heats. I'm thinking it might be the condenser. After doing a little research I realize that NOS ones can likely be defective due to age. In the morning I'll drive it around for a while, shut it off and then try cranking it over with the ignition off, (as suggested by rotorwrench).
Once again, many thanks.
1934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:11 PM   #19
Tinker
Senior Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN/FL
Posts: 5,709
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Starter gains most of it's ground from the face of the starter to the engine. No paint and clean is gooderest, a engine ground to frame doesn't hurt. But the Starter might need some attention, they dont spin like a modern vehicle ever on 6v ever. Mine sounds labored sometimes but always fires after a crank.

Timing would effect how fast it might fire. Model As had a manual advance on the steering column. Certainly started better with it retarded. You can check timing.

Get about 3 ih200 from napa, swap till ya find a good one.


.

Last edited by Tinker; 05-16-2018 at 08:34 PM.
Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 08:01 AM   #20
rockfla
Senior Member
 
rockfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,822
Default Re: slow cranking when hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1934 View Post
I never considered timing as the culprit because the car runs well- never stalls or hesitates, lots of power, idles well and never over-heats. I'm thinking it might be the condenser. After doing a little research I realize that NOS ones can likely be defective due to age. In the morning I'll drive it around for a while, shut it off and then try cranking it over with the ignition off, (as suggested by rotorwrench).
Once again, many thanks.

If you go to the local NAPA for your condenser for a Bran Bran new one, do a little search here on the barn...Its been a subject well covered and just because they are new doesn't mean they are "good" or will last very long. I know in a previous post that NAPA part numbers & MFG markings were discussed as to how well they "Seem" to last (Also in V8 Times if I remember correctly and your are an EFV8 Club member), some better than others SO in summation you may want to invest in a couple of three of them and have one on stand by in the glove box for "just in case"!!
rockfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.