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Old 06-28-2017, 10:26 PM   #1
kehughes
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Default '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Hopefully, I can explain this well enough..........I am currently resurrecting a '39 Pickup(original suspension/drivetrain), but my original frame was just too far gone. So, I found and bought a good '40 car frame to replace it. I was under to assumption that it was pretty much the same frame.
I knew I had to remove the car body blocks off the '40 frame, swap out the radiator mounts in the front, and drill holes for the large front fender brackets on a pickup. However, I recently discovered (by reading on this forum) that the front crossmembers are different. The motor mounts are different heights. I confirmed this by comparing my 2 frames. From what I understand, the '40 was higher to account for the cooling fan moving to the crank. I will be using a generator mounted fan, however.
Now for my questions.....
--Will this extra height cause me any issues for me with my genny mounted fan? hood clearance, cooling, etc.
--Were the rear/transmission mounts different heights also from '39 to '40 or are they the same?
I am using the tranny mount off the '39. The '40 frame was missing its' rear mount when I got it.
--If the tranny mount height is different, will mixing mounts from different years throw the drivetrain angle/squareness off?

I guess what I really trying to ask is whether or not I need to swap out the front crossmember to a '39.
I have not installed the motor/tranny yet, so now would be the time if needed. I really don't want to if I don't need to, as I have already powdercoated the frame.

thanks for any help
Keith
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

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Old 06-29-2017, 01:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Ken.........The engine mount heights surely do SEEM to be at the same altitude with the two different crossmembers. What am I missing? DD



'40 Car Frame BELOW

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Old 06-29-2017, 01:52 PM   #4
kehughes
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

A '39 Deluxe frame's front motor mount is at the same altitude . Remember, the 39 Deluxe has a crank mounted fan like a '40. However, the '39 Standard and picup front mount is lower. They still used a generator mounted fan. I'll try to take some measurements and post some photos.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

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Originally Posted by kehughes View Post
A '39 Deluxe frame's front motor mount is at the same altitude . Remember, the 39 Deluxe has a crank mounted fan like a '40. However, the '39 Standard and picup front mount is lower. They still used a generator mounted fan. I'll try to take some measurements and post some photos.
Ken.........You're absolutely right. Definitely a slight difference, as seen with this slightly earlier pick-up frame. I can't say that I'd be concerned with the height difference in front. I believe the trans mounts are all at the same height, allowing just enough height for the bottom of the torque tube to clear the dip in the top of the center crossmember box. ALL '37-'41 cars and pick-ups with 85 horse V8 used the same rear mount (bearing retainer) seen in second pic below. DD



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Old 06-29-2017, 03:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Why not swap front cross members? Drill out the old rivets and buy new rivets. Rivets hold tighter than bolts and should be used.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

The front crossmember on the 39 frame is toast...lots of patching and welding. I'd need to find another to do it with.
It appears to me, through further research, that 40 used the same rear motor mount and X member also. So I'm thinking it would not throw off the driveline alignment enough to matter. The ujoint compensates I guess.

It appears that the difference in height on front mount is approximately 1 inch.

Any of you guys with 39 pickups...How much clearance/room do you have around the front of your engine and fan? Does it appear that if you raised the front of your engine 1 inch you would have issues.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Ken.........The engine mount heights surely do SEEM to be at the same altitude with the two different crossmembers. What am I missing? DD



'40 Car Frame BELOW

Hey I know those pictures. Mine is a 41 truck frame and a 40 car frame. The only thing I could tell, besides the deeper crossmember on the 41 was my ride height on the front dropped using the car frame. I believe motor stayed the same height.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

There was a 6 cyl engine introduced in 1941 that had a different front crossmember.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

From what i see, space around the engine is ok. You will have deal with lower radiator alignment for lower hoses and spacing at bottom of fan . You might look at adding spacer/shim to the rear transmission mounts using extended mount bolts. There could be exhaust piping problems where it goes thru the frame passages, a bender can fix. I personally would want to reduce that 1 inch pitch angle variance (engine/transmission to axle).
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

I re-thought my 7th grade math and re-computed using 8th grade math. For every 0.732" that you raise or lower the front of the engine, the pitch angle will change by 1. So, by reducing that 1" altitude difference, you've changed the pitch angle by about
1-1/3. Again, shouldn't be anything to get concerned about. DD
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:06 PM   #12
kehughes
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

I hadn't thought about the lower radiator hoses. They are 6" straight hoses. Maybe I can still make them fit up, just be a little on an angle. I may have to shim the radiator a little if room up top allows.
Or......What kind of lower hoses were used on a '40 Pickup? Did a 40 pickup use the same radiator frame mounts that are higher than a car's, like a '39?
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Just typed it in on the web and this popped up. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-1938-193...-/272743169071 But is this a truck or car piece?
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

KE
Bolt the water pumps to the block and hang it over the frame, then hold the radiator in place and know for sure the alignment.
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

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Originally Posted by 5851a View Post
Just typed it in on the web and this popped up. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-1938-193...-/272743169071 But is this a truck or car piece?
That "T" in 81T- means that it is for a "Truck"-sized chassis.....bigger than a pick-up or car. The pick-ups utilized the basic CAR chassis. Rather than classifying pick-ups as "Trucks", Ford classified pick-ups as "Commercials". DD
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

The crossmember in the first picture looks (to me at least) like the 41 pu crossmember. It has a deeper dip to accommodate the 6 cylinder engine.

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Old 07-02-2017, 09:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: '39 pickup on '40 car frame (front motor mount height)???

Thanks Coopman that's good to know. Would have been great if he could have just riveted in a new one.
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