Timing Gear Preference

[KGBnut]

I took the Model A out today for its first run since December...and broke the timing gear.

I searched the threads looking for discussion of fiber vs. aluminum, but found very little. I'm inclined to contact Bratton's and order an aluminum one, but I have heard that the fiber ones are quieter. Pop replaced a few back in the 50s when he owned his service station. He says he always put in metal ones for durability.

What do you folks think? Any strong preferences?

Also, any "don't forget" tips while I'm ordering parts for the job. Obviously I will need the timing gear, and a gasket for the cover plate. Anything else?

Thanks in advance,

Ken

[pat in Santa Cruz]

the laminated fiber gears are much stronger than the cheaper ones. If I use a fiber gear, that's what I use. You can get quiet metal gears from Dan McEachern, but you must change the crank gear too for a good fit ( that means quiet)

DAN MCEACHERN CO

920 PEARL ST
ALAMEDA, CA 94501-6339
(510) 769-7524

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree, the Dan gears are the best made . I'm running Dan bronze cam timing gears in two of my engines. I've never gotten much mileage from any fiber timing gear, maserated or laminated. I would always prefer a metal timing gear. I run aluminum or bronze gears in all of mine now and I don't hear any noise from any of them.

[700rpm]

Fiber gear for quiet. Unless your crank gear is badly pitted and/or you're only 16, a new timing gear should last you the rest of your life.

Put a little lube on the plunger too when you reinstall.

[ford3]

when replacing any timing gear make sure the timing dimple on the gear is deep enough so you can feel it with timing pin, if not rework the dimple so the timing pin goes in deep enough to be felt, this is especially necessary with some fiber gears

[Purdy Swoft]

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I agree, this is important.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by KGBnut

I took the Model A out today for its first run since December...and broke the timing gear.

I searched the threads looking for discussion of fiber vs. aluminum, but found very little. I'm inclined to contact Bratton's and order an aluminum one, but I have heard that the fiber ones are quieter. Pop replaced a few back in the 50s when he owned his service station. He says he always put in metal ones for durability.

What do you folks think? Any strong preferences?

Also, any "don't forget" tips while I'm ordering parts for the job. Obviously I will need the timing gear, and a gasket for the cover plate. Anything else?

Thanks in advance,

Ken

Yep, an oil pan gasket set. Good chance that fiber has drifted into the oil pan, Nothing bad like that fiber plugging up the oil pump screen setting yourself up for additional engine failure.

.

[Mikeinnj]

Laminated fiber should be fine on a stock engine. If you are running a performance cam and / or or stronger valve springs then use a metal gear. I also agree with Brent's comment. Clean out the oil pump and oil pan with the windage tray removed, and don't forget to put it back in. Pack the camshaft plunger/spring with grease so it runs quiet.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

...You can get quiet metal gears from Dan McEachern, but you must change the crank gear too for a good fit ( that means quiet)

DAN MCEACHERN CO

920 PEARL ST
ALAMEDA, CA 94501-6339
(510) 769-7524

I just installed one of his Bronze gears (with the crank gear). Would highly recommend this combination. Not a peep out of the gears.

[Bill Goddard]

Just read today in Mcree's book on Model A engine overhaul proceedure about the crankshaft rope sealing gasket on the timing gear cover that goes around the crankshaft. I can't find any reference to it in any of the catalogues -Bratton's, MAC's, or Snyder's. Does anyone know where to find this gasket material. I want to put some in my road kit. Bill G

[steve hackel]

Just for "farts & giggles", I re-read this twice and not one person bothered to mention where one might purchase a "laminated" timing gear from?!? None of the catalogs refer to this "laminated" term when describing their gears.... just good quality or a good replacement part. I just purchased a set of Dans' gears, but I still need a new laminated gear for the engine that is being installed in the coupe I am selling, once completed. Any help would be appreciated on this. regards, Steve

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Just for "farts & giggles", I re-read this twice and not one person bothered to mention where one might purchase a "laminated" timing gear from?!? None of the catalogs refer to this "laminated" term when describing their gears.... just good quality or a good replacement part. I just purchased a set of Dans' gears, but I still need a new laminated gear for the engine that is being installed in the coupe I am selling, once completed. Any help would be appreciated on this. regards, Steve

this is from brattons site..

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Just for "farts & giggles", I re-read this twice and not one person bothered to mention where one might purchase a "laminated" timing gear from?!? None of the catalogs refer to this "laminated" term when describing their gears.... just good quality or a good replacement part. I just purchased a set of Dans' gears, but I still need a new laminated gear for the engine that is being installed in the coupe I am selling, once completed. Any help would be appreciated on this. regards, Steve

Steve I didn't have either of the Snyder or Bratton's catalog handy but I remember the part numbers. Try 8750 for Brattons or A6256 for Snyders.

.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Just for "farts & giggles", I re-read this twice and not one person bothered to mention where one might purchase a "laminated" timing gear from?!? None of the catalogs refer to this "laminated" term when describing their gears.... just good quality or a good replacement part. I just purchased a set of Dans' gears, but I still need a new laminated gear for the engine that is being installed in the coupe I am selling, once completed. Any help would be appreciated on this. regards, Steve

this is snyders

[Drive Shaft Dave]

Bratton's show's a laminated timing gear on pg 39. part # 8750.

[sidhartha]

Originally Posted by Bill Goddard

Just read today in Mcree's book on Model A engine overhaul proceedure about the crankshaft rope sealing gasket on the timing gear cover that goes around the crankshaft. I can't find any reference to it in any of the catalogues -Bratton's, MAC's, or Snyder's. Does anyone know where to find this gasket material. I want to put some in my road kit. Bill G

Snyders and Macs both have them. They are called packing. Snyders is part number A-6700 for $1.35. Macs is A6700 and $1.40. Just ordered some myself. I've been told to soak them in oil overnight and don't trim them before you install them.

[columbiA]

I replaced a fiber gear with an alum one recently.It didnt strip any teeth ,but became noisy when the cam nut became loose as a former owner had not tightened it properly.The dowel holes in the gear had worn oval.The crank gear in my case was fine.I also cleaned the threads with laquer thinner & used some blue Loctite on the threads.It seems just as quiet as a new fiber gear without the worry of stripping the teeth.Make sure the plunger spring is strong anough to prevent the cam from walking back & forth.

[John LaVoy]

When they came out with the bronze timing gear we switched. Early on we suffered several failures of the original fiber gears. We have bronze on all the cars and if they are louder it isn't enough to be concerned with!

[Special Coupe Frank]

I lost a cam gear the other year due to a broken plunger spring, which allowed the cam to "walk" fore and aft, slamming the cam-gear against the timing cover - this eventually loosened the fibre gear from its steel hub ( Westinghouse-Micarta; a good gear).

I went with an aluminum gear from Bratton, leaving my original crank gear in place, reasoning that this is a high-mileage engine (78,000 miles) that's not far from rebuild anyway...

I have not noticed any noise from the metal gear ( whining or ringing ), and doubt I would hear it over the other threshing-machine noises of my tired iron.

If I were doing a full rebuild, I would probably spring for a bronze gear.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by KGBnut

I took the Model A out today for its first run since December...and broke the timing gear.

I searched the threads looking for discussion of fiber vs. aluminum, but found very little. I'm inclined to contact Bratton's and order an aluminum one, but I have heard that the fiber ones are quieter. Pop replaced a few back in the 50s when he owned his service station. He says he always put in metal ones for durability.

What do you folks think? Any strong preferences?

Also, any "don't forget" tips while I'm ordering parts for the job. Obviously I will need the timing gear, and a gasket for the cover plate. Anything else?

Thanks in advance,

Ken

How old is the motor? I find, some rebuilders will "crowd" the cam gear when line boring the mains and try to get the fit closer. This is not good for a fiber gear since it will get it out of alignment with the crank gear and cause excessive wear and premature failure. This is especially true if the line boring rig is only crowded in the front. If it has been done this way, the aluminum or bronze gear is the only recourse since, the gears will always wear incorrectly and fail. As before, be sure you clean out the pan and pump. I have one on the stand right now that the pump got stopped up and locked it up. Not only did it destroy a brand new pump but, it twisted the tang off the drive (never seen this) and ruined the pistons, bearings and block.

[Patrick L.]

Another little item I didn't see mentioned. Its a good idea to fill the dipper tray [ if the base has been removed]. Its probably easiest to dump a couple quarts of oil thru the distributor hole. If not done the rod bearings may rattle a bit for a few seconds.

[Bill Goddard]

Mcree says DO NOT SOAK IN OIL before installation. So who is right? Bill G

[hardtimes]

Hey KGBnut,
If James Rodgers hands on engine break down information...alone.. doesn't get your attn, think of all the money/time you spend repairing this type problem. Then IMO , do the right thing and call Dan McEachern for his 'matched' set of crank/bronze cam gears. Dans' gear set is like fine jewelry ! Where the NOISEY badrap , on the metal gears came from..who knows. Would say that it's an 'ole wifes tale'...but truth is it is an old mans tale',eh !

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Bill Goddard

Mcree says DO NOT SOAK IN OIL before installation. So who is right? Bill G

I never soak the seal. It just makes it a mess to install. I install it dry and almost always have to trim a little off, yet leave about 1/4" sticking above the gasket after I have pounded the seal into place with a large socket. I tuck the seal in by hand, then using a socket the size of the pulley shaft, I tap it into the seal. I then trim some if need be, then oil the seal and spread a coat of Mystik grease on it. Never had a leak doing it this way.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

... call Dan McEachern for his 'matched' set of crank/bronze cam gears. Dans' gear set is like fine jewelry ! ... !

This one tip alone is priceless!

[KGBnut]

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Thanks everybody for your input. I appreciate all your suggestions and tips.

Ken

[PC/SR]

Dan's gears are by far the best made. Truly precision instruments. However, be advised they will rattle if the cam/drive gear clearances are too much. I replaced my fiber gear with a matched set and they did rattle, got to checking real close and the clearance was .006-.007 which was masked by the fiber gear. I then got an oversize from Dan. Be sure to check your clearances first. Spec is .004. Dan recommends no less than .003. Measure at 3 points around the gear to check for run-out. Check the face of the gear for wobble, although I suspect the fiber gears would wobble after time just by their flexibility. I honestly don't know how you would measure it with the gear already broken, but for sure check on installation. Over the eons and how many babbitt jobs or babbitt wear, the line bore between the crank and cam can get off, or the cam bore wears too much, which you never notice with the fiber gear. And he is very helpful.

[msmaron]

Does anyone have a current email address for DAN,, Yahoo came back as bad now. Also do you order his gears directly from him or a dealer...Thanks all

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by msmaron

Does anyone have a current email address for DAN,, Yahoo came back as bad now. Also do you order his gears directly from him or a dealer...Thanks all

I used to call Dan and speak to him personally with my questions/orders.
Email:
[email protected]

Ph:
(510)5328228

[msmaron]

Thank but that email is bad now.

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

[email protected]

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain yahoo.com by mta5.am0.yahoodns.net. [66.196.118.33].

The error that the other server returned was:
554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account ([email protected]) [0] - mta1091.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by msmaron

Thank but that email is bad now.

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

[email protected]

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain yahoo.com by mta5.am0.yahoodns.net. [66.196.118.33].

The error that the other server returned was:
554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account ([email protected]) [0] - mta1091.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

You transposed the "c" & the "m".

David Serrano