how to remove coil 1941 merc

[grouchyandugly]

I have those screws out, but it appears the Condenser is holding it in.
do not want to force it. what needs to be done?? my COIL is cracked
bad, likely why it shut down on me. will have to buy a new one. any suggestions?? stay safe
thanks
G&U

[rockfla]

I believe that the 41 is the same as back to 37...IF so there should be just two machine screws on either side of the coil and the condenser should come off with the coil. Some times they do get a little tight so once the machine screws are out just give it a little bump to one side with the palm of your hand and it should pop loose. Being that it is cracked is probably got it fitting extra tight. ALSO watch for the little spring and carbon tip on the end of the coil. Skip Haney down in Punta Gorda FL is the go to man for coils....his ad is in the V8 TImes if you're a member of the EFV8 Club. IF you still have trouble getting your coil off PM me and I will come over and help you!!! Once you have the coil off, put a small rag or paper towel in the the coil opening and take a scotch-brite pad and rub the inside lip of the coil and clean that surface real good and the coil will fit back in smoothly!!!

[grouchyandugly]

thanks. the dumb coil (including me) is loose. but. it does seem to have the Condenser holding it in place. I placed a screwdriver under and pried EASY, but no go. will hustle out and see if I can get it off. I DO need a new coil. if you pass that ph number I will order one today. the coil body is not co-operating with coming loose (I KNEW I WAS UGLY!!).
just rechecked it. the Condenser is being held in place by a flat piece of
metal that is held in place by a bolt (with also a screw head), some 1/2in
bolt. in a almost inaccessible location behind the dumb coil. looks like I
will have to loosen that freaking bolt before I can pull the coil out. but... will
wait and see if anyone knows about this dumb dirtyword booger. stay safe
thanks

[rockfla]

On no V8 coil does the condenser help hold the coil on! So your condenser should come off with the coil. As I mentioned, being yours in "cracked" "most likely" is causing it to be "extra" tight fitting. Gently bump it on the sides, from the front, back and forth and it should pop loose!!

[tubman]

Originally Posted by rockfla

On no V8 coil does the condenser help hold the coil on! So your condenser should come off with the coil. As I mentioned, being yours in "cracked" "most likely" is causing it to be "extra" tight fitting. Gently bump it on the sides, from the front, back and forth and it should pop loose!!

I don't know about this statement; your're gonna break something unless you remove the distributor mounting bolt the condenser strap is mounted under. The condenser has to be connected to the coil and to ground.

[rockfla]

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Originally Posted by tubman

I don't know about this statement; your're gonna break something unless you remove the distributor mounting bolt the condenser strap is mounted under. The condenser has to be connected to the coil and to ground.

He has already stated that the coil screw are out of the coil..The condenser ground strap fits under the "Coil" screws, not the distributor bolts, right? NOT to be "smart" BUT I've just had the distributor, coil and such off and on our 39 Merc probably 6 times here in the last month and a half.....that's how its been every time I have performed my work. The condenser screw bolts it to the brass forked tab on the coil, the ground strap curls around "under" the left distributor mounting screw and the ignition wire screws to the top of the coil via knurled thumb screw nut....Right?

[Hoop]

Big Surprise! Here comes the electronic ignition, as I said.

Great advice to help him hot wire it ... 12 volts to the 6 volt coil.

(Seriously, you guys did not see this coming?)

Shame is that this was a beautiful, low-mile car. I've know it for years owned by one of my best friends. He bought it many years ago from the original owners, an affluent family who purchased it new here in Jacksonville. He drove it regularly around North Florida, to Daytona, Ormond, etc. Sold it with 40k original miles on it with no modifications.

You will have to excuse me for expressing my disappointment, but I genuinely like old cars ... especially flatheads.

[grouchyandugly]

the coil is loose, I can move it around easily...but... that dirtyword condenser is holding it in place (well, not actually in place because it allows me to move the coil)…. the coil will not move Vertical, and when I do pull it up the condenser holds that side down. and there is a strap of some type, flat metal, that apparently is secured with a freaking bolt. may I have Skips' number so I can at lease order a new one today?? wait about 5 mins or so and I will take a photo of it and see iffen I can insert in here (had trouble putting my 41 on here). stay safe. thanks

[grouchyandugly]

??? I have not said anything about converting it to electronic ignition. satisfied with it being like it is (whups, not with the cracked coil that is). stay safe. thanks

[rockfla]

941-637-6698 941-505-9085 (night) OR [email protected]

[grouchyandugly]

thanks.

[tubman]

"rockfla" - I was responding to your blanket statement, which could be misleading.

[Phil Gillespie]

Most times its easier to remove the distribuor and coil complete.
Then you can actually see that when refitting the coil all is sitting correct, ie the carbon brush and coil contact. As its possible to have these not fitting correct when coil changing with distributor on engine. The mounting screw holding your condenser is also securing distributor to engine.
All the best.
Phil NZ

[grouchyandugly]

thanks. that sounds like a "better plan". stay safe. thanks

[Bill OH]

The ground strap for the condenser is held by a 5/16 cap screw that mounts the distributor - remove that cap screw, the two cap screws on the sides of the coil, and the wire terminal nut and that will allow the removal of the coil.

[marko39]

What Tubman posted is correct unless Merc. Is different. You need to remove one Dist.bolt to remove condenser. 1/2 " open end is needed. When installing condenser, notch the mounting hole so next time you only need to losten it to remove.

[petehoovie]

Is this what you have? >


Or this? >

[Kube]

You'll need to remove the bolt at the top of the distributor housing (right side) to the timing gear cover. That bolt serves to fasten the timing gear cover AND the condenser.
I have found the easiest way is to use a 1/4" drive ratchet, a 6'" extension and a dedicated 1/2" swivel.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Is this what you have? >


Or this? >

First of all, I am not trying to start anything here; I just want to expand my knowledge. Again, I am an 8BA guy, and most of my experience (I did have a bunch) with the early V8's was over 40 years ago.

Most of you know that I am making "Trash Can" condensers for use with high performance ignition systems. This endeavor is going quite well, and recently, I have received several requests to see if I could come up with quality replacements for currently available pre-war Ford condensers. to this end, I have obtained a good quantity of "dead" pre-war Ford condensers, both the '32-'36 variety, as well as the '37-'41 units.

My question in here is about the '37-'41 variety. EVERY example of these that are original Ford with script (however faint) cases is of the second variety shown in this post. I currently believe that the first type is strictly non-contemporary (witness the part number on the box), which I of course, have no interest in duplicating. Can any of you experts on pre-war units confirm this?.

[Kube]

Tubman, The type with the strap that goes to the coil body is a service replacement part and not concourse correct for any year. While easier to R&R, again, they are not correct.
The type with the loop that the timing cover bolt goes through is proper.

And, actually there are very good replacement condensers available for those that are willing to spend a few bucks.
Joe Hunt Magnetos sells them. About $30 each. Wonderful quality. Not correct in appearance but as you of all folks know, not difficult to disguise.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Kube

Tubman, The type with the strap that goes to the coil body is a service replacement part and not concourse correct for any year. While easier to R&R, again, they are not correct.
The type with the loop that the timing cover bolt goes through is proper.

And, actually there are very good replacement condensers available for those that are willing to spend a few bucks.
Joe Hunt Magnetos sells them. About $30 each. Wonderful quality. Not correct in appearance but as you of all folks know, not difficult to disguise.

With all due respect, that's not what I have heard from several sources. I am starting to wonder whether I should be pursuing this.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Big Surprise! You will have to excuse me for expressing my disappointment, but I genuinely like old cars ... especially flatheads.

Always good to hear from you Hoop.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Kube

You'll need to remove the bolt at the top of the distributor housing (right side) to the timing gear cover. That bolt serves to fasten the timing gear cover AND the condenser.
I have found the easiest way is to use a 1/4" drive ratchet, a 6'" extension and a dedicated 1/2" swivel.

Kube & Tubman

As I yield to your expertise, does the twice post diagram of the distributor-coil breakdown NOT show the condenser ground strap looping around and being "grounded" via the coil right side coil screw via 10/32 x 1-3/4 Round Head Machine Screw? Again, over the last month or so I have had the distributor and coil on and off our 39 Merc "several" times and that is how mine was. I have never seen on grounded via the distributor bolt like you describe AND the way I see the posted diagram it doesn't look like that is where the ground strap is "grounded???? Open mind awaits.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

With all due respect, that's not what I have heard from several sources. I am starting to wonder whether I should be pursuing this.

Tubman, Which part have you heard different opinions about? Which condenser is concourse correct? Or, the quality of Hunt's condensers?

[tubman]

"Kube" - As I have said, it has been a long time since I was deeply involved with pre-war engines (I had an 8BA in my '36), so I only know what others tell me. That is that the condensers available from the usual sources are a "crap shoot" at best and the hobby could use a reliable unit. This is the first I have heard of the "Hunt's Condensers". As such, I have no idea of their quality or whether they are "concourse correct" or not. The prototypes I have made use original Ford script cases with updated innards. Because of my experience with my "trash can" units, I have no doubt my updated units will be dead stone reliable. Whether there is a viable market out there is to be determined. I was planning on selling these units on a straight out or exchange basis. The exchange price would be about on a par with the one you quoted for a Hunt unit.

"rockfla" - I have to defer to "Kube" on this, but it looks like the unit shown in the diagram is a later replacement. I don't have an example of one of those, but it looks like it would be much easier to replace than a correct original. I have no interest in making a replacement for a non-original part. I find it curious that what looks like an official Ford diagram would show anything other than a strictly original unit.

[rockfla]

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"rockfla" - I have to defer to "Kube" on this, but it looks like the unit shown in the diagram is a later replacement. I don't have an example of one of those, but it looks like it would be much easier to replace than a correct original. I have no interest in making a replacement for a non-original part. I find it curious that what looks like an official Ford diagram would show anything other than a strictly original unit.[/QUOTE]
Tubman
As a "young gun" the diagram is as the 39 Merc I am working with SO "WAS" my frame of reference and source of seemingly "false bravado". Would love to see pictures of "Just how" the "Original" condenser is "supposed" to be!!!!

[grouchyandugly]

I "hot-wired" her to move into her shelter, as she was now stuck out on the grass/ground. successful enough to get her moved and protected. have ordered a new coil, so all is just in standby at this point in time. thanks for all the help, etc. stay safe

[tubman]

"rockfla" - If you look at the pictures of the two condensers "petehoovie" posted, I think you can see that each is grounded in a completely different way. The kind in the lower picture grounds through the distributor mounting bolt, while the one in the upper picture (a service replacement) grounds through the coil mounting screw. I am sure someone on here has a detailed picture of the original mounted, but I don't have one. (My expertise is condensers, not pre-war distributors.)

The fact that what appears to be a factory diagram shows a service replacement part only adds to the confusion. I'm sure there is someone on here that can explain it.

[marko39]

My 39 reference book shows distributor with condenser that grounds on Dist. bolt.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

"Kube" - As I have said, it has been a long time since I was deeply involved with pre-war engines (I had an 8BA in my '36), so I only know what others tell me. That is that the condensers available from the usual sources are a "crap shoot" at best and the hobby could use a reliable unit. This is the first I have heard of the "Hunt's Condensers". As such, I have no idea of their quality or whether they are "concourse correct" or not. The prototypes I have made use original Ford script cases with updated innards. Because of my experience with my "trash can" units, I have no doubt my updated units will be dead stone reliable. Whether there is a viable market out there is to be determined. I was planning on selling these units on a straight out or exchange basis. The exchange price would be about on a par with the one you quoted for a Hunt unit.

"rockfla" - I have to defer to "Kube" on this, but it looks like the unit shown in the diagram is a later replacement. I don't have an example of one of those, but it looks like it would be much easier to replace than a correct original. I have no interest in making a replacement for a non-original part. I find it curious that what looks like an official Ford diagram would show anything other than a strictly original unit.

Tubman, I can assure you that the type of condenser that utilizes the distributor / timing gear cover is the concourse correct piece from '37 through '41.
The Hunt's condensers are not concourse correct but can be made to appear as such - I've done this numerous times. It's (The Hunt part) VERY easy to install within a '32 - '36 coil as it is hidden.
On the '37 - '41 a person has to get a bit more creative and of course have a correct donor condenser.
The Hunt's are available in two distinct micro-farad specifications. They are extremely reliable.

[petehoovie]

What's the story on this distributor/coil combination?

[marko39]

After doing some reading, it appears Ford used two different coils and condensers during this period.The 78-12024 coil used the condenser that grounded to the Dist. bolt. The 81a coil used the strap to coil screw. The diagram from the ford book posted shows the 81a coil which is flatter than the 78 coil which is all I have ever seen.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

What's the story on this distributor/coil combination?

The distributor is like all the other ones 37 - 41.
These coils were made for the Detroit Transit Authority. However, while researching these, it became clear quite quickly that there were far more produced than (most likely) the DTA would desire or have a need for.
These were NEVER installed on the assembly line to any Ford passenger vehicle nor trucks.
They were placed in to service inventory.
Also, a close look at the condenser dedicated solely to this coil has the strap soldered higher than the one depicted in an earlier post. To be clear, this condenser fits this coil ONLY.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by marko39

After doing some reading, it appears Ford used two different coils and condensers during this period.The 78-12024 coil used the condenser that grounded to the Dist. bolt. The 81a coil used the strap to coil screw. The diagram from the ford book posted shows the 81a coil which is flatter than the 78 coil which is all I have ever seen.

And, if you'd desire to do even more research, you'd find the "strap" type condensers were never installed upon the assembly line.
Please reference PeteH's post and subsequent response.

[petehoovie]

Interesting that Ford would show/use this limited edition coil/condenser assembly (built for DTA and "NEVER" installed on the assembly line) in an official parts drawing as opposed to the coil/condenser assembly which was installed on the assembly line...Hmmm

[Kube]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Interesting that Ford would show/use this limited edition coil/condenser assembly (built for DTA and "NEVER" installed on the assembly line) in an official parts drawing as opposed to the coil/condenser assembly which was installed on the assembly line...Hmmm

Many novices to this hobby confuse service parts for factory installed parts. A common and quite excusable mistake.