The Ford Barn

OoltewahSpeedShop · 05-05-2011, 09:24 PM

I have a '53 Ford flathead with a 4" Mercury crank. It got some water damage in the cylinders. It is .060 over now. According to my engine man it will clean up at .080 over.

Now here's my question... All the best piston manufacturers offer .125 or .188 over pistons. I can get an .080 over piston, but should I just go on to .125 and get a better piston?

Pros and Cons guys.

Thanks,
Kevin

Ronnie · 05-05-2011, 09:45 PM

.125" would be a good start.

Ronnie

phartman · 05-05-2011, 09:53 PM

We had this exact same discussion today, and came to the very same conclusion, Ronnie.

If you're gonna be a bear, might as well be a grizzly.... is the expression, I do believe.

JM 35 Sedan · 05-05-2011, 10:31 PM

Going to a 3-5/16" bore should not be a problem with an 8ba block. That should still leave enough wall thickness for at least another rebuild. If you have any concerns have a sonic test run to check wall thickness before boring.

Ol' Ron · 05-05-2011, 10:34 PM

Egge makes one of the best pistons on the market for a street engine along with modern rings, proper tuning, you should get 100,00 miles from them. I set mine at .0025"

Ronnie · 05-06-2011, 09:59 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

They are also a 4 ring piston that works well along with all 4 grooves filled correct.

Ronnie

John Kennedy · 05-06-2011, 10:15 AM

Ron, is that 100,000 miles, or 10,000 miles?

rotorwrench · 05-06-2011, 12:00 PM

The Egge Hypereutectic (high silicon) pistones are 3-ring for less piston drag. I just wished they would make them in smaller oversizes like .060", .080" and .100". This is a very practical application of modern technology.

Kerby

Ronnie · 05-06-2011, 03:47 PM

The 3 ring pistons are #ep 1110 start at .125"over are cast alum not Hypereutectic. I phoned them today to get some info on them for a customer and was told they are cast alum not Hypereutectic they make they for a merc also. but .125" over.

rotorwrench · 05-06-2011, 06:04 PM

I don't know what amount of silicon added to the aluminum actually puts them in the hypereutectic formula range (somewhere around 12%) but the high silicon content is why they can be clearanced so close. The expansion coefficient is less on high silicon aluminum castings than the older aluminum casting formulas. They don't need T-slots or any of that antique technology stuff for sure. I've also heard that above 25% silicon content the metal starts to lose its strength. The Hypereutectic term only means that the silicon amount is above the normal soluability rate for molten aluminum.

Forged pistons are way hard but they need a fair amount of clearance because of that too.

Kerby

Ronnie · 05-06-2011, 07:34 PM

They stated all their cast flathead pistons are the same alloy three and four ring..
Which is a acceptable response they will all be good.

52merc · 05-06-2011, 08:37 PM

how much wall is ok if you bore to 3,5/16 ths

Ol' Ron · 05-06-2011, 09:02 PM

We ran 3 3/8 on street engines for years, I still have a 296 running. Had a track engine at 3 7/16. My ecoono engine is 3 5/16+20 (Egge) 125 isn't much to worry about, but you could get it sonic tested.

52merc · 05-06-2011, 10:55 PM

thanks ron so what would be the best thickness if 125 over street car

OoltewahSpeedShop · 05-07-2011, 12:45 AM

I have heard about sonic testing for 30 years, never had it done. Checked around today and kinda got laughed at. More than one person said "That stuff went out with the Flatheads"

Are most 8ba engines safe at .125 over? Is a wall thickness check necessary? I'm sure core shift was an issue, but how bad were they?

TonyM · 05-07-2011, 01:05 AM

Maybe you should check out this technical flathead forum:

http://www.flatheadv8.org/phpBB/index.php

TM

OoltewahSpeedShop · 05-07-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyM

Maybe you should check out this technical flathead forum:

http://www.flatheadv8.org/phpBB/index.php

TM

Ok, as stated above, this is NOT a restoration project, so stock engine facts don't really apply to this one. I'm looking for advise on what the logical, streetable bore size would be on an 8ba.

TonyM · 05-07-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OoltewahSpeedShop

Ok, as stated above, this is NOT a restoration project, so stock engine facts don't really apply to this one. I'm looking for advise on what the logical, streetable bore size would be on an 8ba.

Believe me, any tech flathead question you have is fair game over there, stock, street or strip.

TM

chuck stevens · 05-07-2011, 06:55 AM

Theres no replacement for displacement, go big 3 3/8, 286 is nice size. I have three cars at .125 and one out to .188 they all run great.

flatjack9 · 05-07-2011, 08:20 AM

Most 8BA blocks should take a .125 overbore with no problems. Heavily rusted water jackets would make for a question mark.

05-05-2011, 09:24 PM	#1
OoltewahSpeedShop Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ooltewah Tn. Posts: 95	Flathead question... I have a '53 Ford flathead with a 4" Mercury crank. It got some water damage in the cylinders. It is .060 over now. According to my engine man it will clean up at .080 over. Now here's my question... All the best piston manufacturers offer .125 or .188 over pistons. I can get an .080 over piston, but should I just go on to .125 and get a better piston? Pros and Cons guys. Thanks, Kevin

05-05-2011, 09:45 PM	#2
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Flathead question... .125" would be a good start. Ronnie

05-05-2011, 09:53 PM	#3
phartman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 339	Re: Flathead question... We had this exact same discussion today, and came to the very same conclusion, Ronnie. If you're gonna be a bear, might as well be a grizzly.... is the expression, I do believe.

05-05-2011, 10:31 PM	#4
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Flathead question... Going to a 3-5/16" bore should not be a problem with an 8ba block. That should still leave enough wall thickness for at least another rebuild. If you have any concerns have a sonic test run to check wall thickness before boring. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

05-05-2011, 10:34 PM	#5
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: Flathead question... Egge makes one of the best pistons on the market for a street engine along with modern rings, proper tuning, you should get 100,00 miles from them. I set mine at .0025"

05-06-2011, 09:59 AM	#6
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Flathead question... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) They are also a 4 ring piston that works well along with all 4 grooves filled correct. Ronnie

05-06-2011, 10:15 AM	#7
John Kennedy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tucson Arizona Posts: 301	Re: Flathead question... Ron, is that 100,000 miles, or 10,000 miles? __________________ Building a 29 Sedan on 32 chassis........ very slowly....

05-06-2011, 12:00 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,432	Re: Flathead question... The Egge Hypereutectic (high silicon) pistones are 3-ring for less piston drag. I just wished they would make them in smaller oversizes like .060", .080" and .100". This is a very practical application of modern technology. Kerby Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-06-2011 at 06:05 PM.

05-06-2011, 03:47 PM	#9
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Flathead question... The 3 ring pistons are #ep 1110 start at .125"over are cast alum not Hypereutectic. I phoned them today to get some info on them for a customer and was told they are cast alum not Hypereutectic they make they for a merc also. but .125" over.

05-06-2011, 06:04 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,432	Re: Flathead question... I don't know what amount of silicon added to the aluminum actually puts them in the hypereutectic formula range (somewhere around 12%) but the high silicon content is why they can be clearanced so close. The expansion coefficient is less on high silicon aluminum castings than the older aluminum casting formulas. They don't need T-slots or any of that antique technology stuff for sure. I've also heard that above 25% silicon content the metal starts to lose its strength. The Hypereutectic term only means that the silicon amount is above the normal soluability rate for molten aluminum. Forged pistons are way hard but they need a fair amount of clearance because of that too. Kerby Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-06-2011 at 06:15 PM.

05-06-2011, 07:34 PM	#11
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Flathead question... They stated all their cast flathead pistons are the same alloy three and four ring.. Which is a acceptable response they will all be good.

05-06-2011, 08:37 PM	#12
52merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new zealand Posts: 1,054	Re: Flathead question... how much wall is ok if you bore to 3,5/16 ths

05-06-2011, 09:02 PM	#13
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: Flathead question... We ran 3 3/8 on street engines for years, I still have a 296 running. Had a track engine at 3 7/16. My ecoono engine is 3 5/16+20 (Egge) 125 isn't much to worry about, but you could get it sonic tested.

05-06-2011, 10:55 PM	#14
52merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new zealand Posts: 1,054	Re: Flathead question... thanks ron so what would be the best thickness if 125 over street car

05-07-2011, 12:45 AM	#15
OoltewahSpeedShop Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ooltewah Tn. Posts: 95	Re: Flathead question... I have heard about sonic testing for 30 years, never had it done. Checked around today and kinda got laughed at. More than one person said "That stuff went out with the Flatheads" Are most 8ba engines safe at .125 over? Is a wall thickness check necessary? I'm sure core shift was an issue, but how bad were they?

05-07-2011, 01:05 AM	#16
TonyM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: West Hammond, Illinois Posts: 2,793	Re: Flathead question... Maybe you should check out this technical flathead forum: http://www.flatheadv8.org/phpBB/index.php TM

05-07-2011, 06:55 AM	#19
chuck stevens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate new york Posts: 758	Re: Flathead question... Theres no replacement for displacement, go big 3 3/8, 286 is nice size. I have three cars at .125 and one out to .188 they all run great.

05-07-2011, 08:20 AM	#20
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: Flathead question... Most 8BA blocks should take a .125 overbore with no problems. Heavily rusted water jackets would make for a question mark.