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Old 04-24-2013, 12:04 PM   #21
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

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Herm: What is self stick #80. I could not find anything on a google search except labels. Thanks
You can go to any auto parts store that carries Auto paint, will have them in round, and strips for air boards which I use.

I have them stuck to an old K.O. Lee Rod Aligner that has a scraped true surface, and I use it every day for something, very handy.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:17 PM   #22
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

One thing about adjusting rods on a crank before you put the pistons on is when you do it that way, then with the pistons on it can take the top of the rod and move it a little, and you will not have it in the same position as when it was set with out the piston.

With the piston on, should have the last say.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Thanks Herm and Tom.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:45 PM   #24
ursus
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Sandpaper on babbitt? I have seen many cautions against this practice. Supposedly, it is impossible to not have minute bits of corborundum, silicate, or whatever abrasive become embedded in the babbitt as the bearing is rubbed over the surface. The result is a nice fit but rapid wear when the bearing is put into service. I had notions of using a green Scotch brand pot scrubber to help fit a replacement main cap until learning about hour much abrasive is built into the pads. Any thoughts about grit on babbitt?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

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Sandpaper on babbitt? I have seen many cautions against this practice. Supposedly, it is impossible to not have minute bits of corborundum, silicate, or whatever abrasive become embedded in the babbitt as the bearing is rubbed over the surface. The result is a nice fit but rapid wear when the bearing is put into service. I had notions of using a green Scotch brand pot scrubber to help fit a replacement main cap until learning about hour much abrasive is built into the pads. Any thoughts about grit on babbitt?
Your not using it inside the rod. The only time anything embeads it's self in babbitt is with running piston preasure, or hot sparks as in grinding, if you use that method when Balancing.

Air pressure blows all away, especially 80 Grit.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #26
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Well I got my .008 side clearance! I disconnected the rods and pulled them down past the crank journal. I got some 400 wet/dry paper and a sanding block and worked on the rods tightened with the shims in. I had a nice flat sanding surface and the babbitt came off evenly. It took me a couple of trys to get my clearance but I finally got all four. I also double checked the rods which are still between .0015 and .0020. Cleaned them up real well and put assembly lube on them. I don't think any engine with assembly lube and close tolerances is going to be easy to turn. Each rod individually was snug, but you do that x4 and they are TIGHT! If I added any shims I would be way over specs. If I loosened them to the point I could turn it, the pistons would be swapping cylinders. Am I right about this theory?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

The new rings on a newly honed cylinders will also add to the drag, but the starter should be able to turn it over. As mentioned, to check if advaced timing is making it hard to spin over, just try the starter with the ignition OFF.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Tom,
At this point this is an engine waiting for a car so it's a "spare" therefore the new pistons, rings, rods etc. I'm just trying to get it set up so I know it will be ready. Not trying to run it yet. Hopefully after fixing the side clearance on the rods, the starter will turn it over.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

You should still be able to spin the assembly over. If you cannot, that is still a problem,.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Next chapter: Got back together after doing the side clearance on the rods to .008, hooked up the starter and still solid as a rock. I've got it back apart again and I'm beginning to think I'm off on my rod adjustments when I used plastiguage. When I got the rods from the supplier, they already had shims installed and I assumed they were aligned bored that way. Anyway I THOUGHT I got .0015-.0020 by maybe I didn't. I'm going to try the tinfoil method next but 1st a call to the supplier to find out what's up.
I'll keep at it!!
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Sounds like you ought measure the rod journals and the rod bores. The engine should turn with a hand crank.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:21 PM   #32
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Well now....I pulled the pistons and rechecked the clearances on the rods again. I 1st called the folks that did the rods. They align bore the rods (.40over) with a shim pack in but mentioned side clearances be different since my crank was ground probably a little off from their rig. Yes it was! ALSO I got in a rush and didn't double check the plastiguage reading and assumed them to be accurate when I torqued them up. WRONG!. Today I did the tinfoil trick and ended up adding shims to every rod. Guess what, they move like their supposed to when torqued up. Now pop the pistons back in and put the flywheel back on for the third time. Oh, I also got the side clearances corrected too.
I'll report back when I hang the starter back on but I'm sure I got it whipped.
Pete
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:45 AM   #33
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Too late now, but I was going to suggest that you loosen each rod nut one or two turns and see if the engine turns over OK. Then you'd know right off that the rods are too tight. Anyway, it sounds like you have it licked now.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Thought someone would be interested how I finally checked my rod clearances. Didn't want to take too much apart so I adjusted them upside down. Worked great as I had plenty of access and could swing each rod independantly to check for drag etc. Now to put it back together. The pistons go in the holes, right?
Pete


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Old 04-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #35
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

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Well now....I pulled the pistons and rechecked the clearances on the rods again. I 1st called the folks that did the rods. They align bore the rods (.40over) with a shim pack in but mentioned side clearances be different since my crank was ground probably a little off from their rig. Yes it was! ALSO I got in a rush and didn't double check the plastiguage reading and assumed them to be accurate when I torqued them up. WRONG!. Today I did the tinfoil trick and ended up adding shims to every rod. Guess what, they move like their supposed to when torqued up. Now pop the pistons back in and put the flywheel back on for the third time. Oh, I also got the side clearances corrected too.
I'll report back when I hang the starter back on but I'm sure I got it whipped.
Pete

Pete, your Rod People gave you a snow JOB. Unlike other Jobs, this one is Bad!


It is hard telling what kind of machine they bored the rods on, as there are many eye Brow lifters!

There 's no such thing as Align Boring a Rod, on any machine. Align Boring a bearing refers to Boring two or more bearings on a center line, such as Main bearings, and there is no assurance that would be done right by all the pictures that have been posted on this Fourm!



They align bore the rods (.40over) with a shim pack in but mentioned side clearances be different since my crank was ground probably a little off from their rig."END QUOTE"

There is no way that a rod fit was the fault of the crank grinder. If your crank was off that far, the crank would not be useable. What they did was pass the buck, as you don't fit the crank to the Rod, you Fit the Rod to the Crank.

So, if you had to take Babbitt off the sides, as they were not cut to 1.625-00 -.008 thousandths, they didn't do there Job right.

I am also about 99.99 percent sure that the Rods are also out of alignment, and doubt if they do check them, or even have a machine to do so.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: How tight is tight?

Like I mentioned, I've never had any experience with "new" rods/babbitt so I didn't know. The machinest that fitted the rods to the pistons did check for rod alignment but not being one (a machinest which you are), I wouldn't know if I was getting a snow job or not. I did notice a visible difference of the amount of babbitt the thrust areas of the rods but didn't think much of it at the time. At least they seem to be OK now.
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