Sedan wood fitting question

[Arlen]

I've been installing new wood in an early 31 town sedan. It's all going in great and I'm really pleased with the product (used classic wood). I've been installing the wood with the body off of the chassis. Am I making a mistake here? Should I have the body on the frame when I do this? I asked my local club and got mixed answers. I'm installing a header, all new top wood, rear window wood, and the rear crossmember. Thanks for advice.

[Mike V. Florida]

You can do it that way just don't glue anything together intil you fit the body and make the final adjustments.

This was from Brents site and I carry it with the car to show how the car was assembled.

[Ed Saniewski]

Arlen, if your car is a 31 sedan then there should not be too much wood. Are you speaking about the wood in the roof, or the wood around the doors to tack the upholstery?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Early 31 would be a straight windshield with a lot of wood.

[Richard Wilson]

Because of the wooden subrails, I rewooded my leatherback Victoria using the chassis and cowl as a "jig" to keep everything square. I bolted new wood subrails and cowl to chassis and worked my way back and up fitting the new wood.

[Terry, NJ]

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Arlen., I'm assembling mine (30 T.S.) off the chassis and inside the body! With no one to guide me, I started this way and now I'm finishing this way. However, I assembled the sills on the frames (screwed and glued) Then I took it back off the chassis fitted it to the body. From there, I started assembling the interior wood and roof wood. Its going slow because of making the doors fit. I used cable pulls, cross rigged to pull the body tight to the sills.
Terry

[George Miller]

If it was me I would first straiten the frame. Then put the body on the frame with the proper shims. Then put the wood in. Then you know it will be right.
You could do it off the frame, but you have to get every thing square. That is hard to do on a body.
After doing 25 Model A's I have learned to straighten the frame. Then check body fit on the frame, before final paint. You will find that most frames are off some.

[MikeK]

I would love to have seen the original Briggs & Murray frame assembly jigs. They must have had many, many, location points, clamps, and arms for the side, rear, and top pieces. Sub-groups of pieces must have been pre-assembled in other jigs. If they stick built them using only a single jig with frame mount points and the cowl like restorers do now, it would have been impossible to keep up with Henry's assembly lines!

Do any pictures exist of the original operation? Perhaps there are a few hidden assembly tips we could learn from such pictures.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by MikeK

I would love to have seen the original Briggs & Murray frame assembly jigs. They must have had many, many, location points, clamps, and arms for the side, rear, and top pieces. Sub-groups of pieces must have been pre-assembled in other jigs. If they stick built them using only a single jig with frame mount points and the cowl like restorers do now, it would have been impossible to keep up with Henry's assembly lines!

Do any pictures exist of the original operation? Perhaps there are a few hidden assembly tips we could learn from such pictures.

That would for sure be the best way to do it. It would have to be right then.

[Terry, NJ]

I would love to have seen the machinery that the pieces were cut to size on. I have checked many pieces for size with a vernier and the pieces that are nominal size (1", 1 1/2", 1 3/4" etc) are accurate within .005 after 80 years! Very little shrinkage. The number of Radii, angles, mortices, tenons etc. is astounding. A lot of the pieces might only have one square angle.
Terry

Originally Posted by MikeK

I would love to have seen the original Briggs & Murray frame assembly jigs. They must have had many, many, location points, clamps, and arms for the side, rear, and top pieces. Sub-groups of pieces must have been pre-assembled in other jigs. If they stick built them using only a single jig with frame mount points and the cowl like restorers do now, it would have been impossible to keep up with Henry's assembly lines!

Do any pictures exist of the original operation? Perhaps there are a few hidden assembly tips we could learn from such pictures.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by MikeK

I would love to have seen the original Briggs & Murray frame assembly jigs. They must have had many, many, location points, clamps, and arms for the side, rear, and top pieces. Sub-groups of pieces must have been pre-assembled in other jigs. If they stick built them using only a single jig with frame mount points and the cowl like restorers do now, it would have been impossible to keep up with Henry's assembly lines!

Do any pictures exist of the original operation? Perhaps there are a few hidden assembly tips we could learn from such pictures.

I would love to see that as well. I've seen a few for the late Cabriolet (68-C) but the Fordor bodies really intrigue me having done one. What I did learn when doing the '29 Murray Town Sedan and helping to re-wood a 400-A was they (at least Murray) did sub-assemblies and finished them to size. For example, the floor framing was fully assembled and then the outer perimeter was finished to size. They weren't always on center when doing so. That means the the left floor sill could easily be a good 1/8" wider than the right side or vice versa. The same was done with the wood framed doors and could vary slightly. After the door framing was completed the door jamb skins were installed. The outer skin was then slipped into place and located by the window opening. Finally the flanges were crimped around the jamb skins.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Arlen

I've been installing new wood in an early 31 town sedan. It's all going in great and I'm really pleased with the product (used classic wood). I've been installing the wood with the body off of the chassis. Am I making a mistake here? Should I have the body on the frame when I do this? I asked my local club and got mixed answers. I'm installing a header, all new top wood, rear window wood, and the rear crossmember. Thanks for advice.

It sounds like you aren't replacing much so the risk would be somewhat limited. However I certainly wouldn't take the risk. Not only should it be done on a STRAIGHT frame as George noted, you need to be sure the frame has no twist as can happen sitting on the front and rear suspensions. The frame doesn't have to be literally level but if the rear is leaning at 3 degrees to the left then the front end of the frame must be the same.

You would think a steel body like a Coupe or Tudor would be a slam dunk. Many folks get those models to the finished stage only to find they can't get things to fit. This is often followed with aggressive testing of one's vocabulary.

On a wood framed body (especially with four doors) you have far more coming into play.

[Skibb]

Originally Posted by Arlen

I've been installing new wood in an early 31 town sedan. It's all going in great and I'm really pleased with the product (used classic wood). I've been installing the wood with the body off of the chassis. Am I making a mistake here? Should I have the body on the frame when I do this? I asked my local club and got mixed answers. I'm installing a header, all new top wood, rear window wood, and the rear crossmember. Thanks for advice.

Gents, cant thank you enough for this theard. Our 1930 Briggs 3 window sedan needs a total wood replacement. I have the 3 wood kits and will start the first of March. Hopefully, we can find some professional help down here in Jupiter FL.

[60ch]

When i did my 30 Murray town sedan I replaced all of the wood above the doors and all of the wood in the four doors. I'm sure that everyone thats done one has an opinion on how they would do it next time. I believe that the straight frame is a prerequisite after that I would mount the cowl, radiator and shell then line up the hood spacing. That would give a solid reference for fitting the front doors and everything back from there. Shimming the body to get the doors right is a pain and if it throws the cowl off you will fight lining up the hood and radiator shell. I am not a wood worker and I will totally admit that I got really lucky when I did mine. It is really worth the pain because those wood framed sedans are beautiful cars with a very satisfying sound when the doors are closed. Terry

[Arlen]

Should have mentioned that the frame was already done. Yes lucked out on most of the wood. The majority of it was fine to use. Just a few pieces that I wanted to ask y'all about

[Bill Goddard]

The wood on my Leatherback had some extra pieces of wood attached to the roof rails and rear window frame wood. I'm sure these were fixtures to mate with assembly fixtures. They have no other obvious purpose and I left them out in my restoration. Bill G