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Old 11-09-2019, 04:04 PM   #1
jim1932
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Default Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Ok. I have no clue when it comes to electricity. I am not getting a charging on the amp meter when running. I do need to replace the wiring harness, and have it ready to go, but how do I know if the generator and cut out are operating correctly? And if it is not, who rebuilds them?
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Old 11-09-2019, 04:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

I think Autozone could test it. I think grounding the lead to the cut out should make it go full charge.
The cut out just isolates the gen so not to run down the battery when parked.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Jim,
Arlington Armature in Springfield, VA can test the generator. They are relatively local to you. They've been in business for many decades. Guys in the local V8 club have used their services.
John
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Quick and easy check; start engine, run at above idle speed [generator won't charge at idle], use a jumper from one side of cut out to the other. See if ammeter reads...Report back
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Quote:
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I think Autozone could test it. I think grounding the lead to the cut out should make it go full charge.
The cut out just isolates the gen so not to run down the battery when parked.
Grounding the lead to the cut out is not the correct information, so don't do that. What Brian said is OK providing the cut out is an original Ford unit and not a Fun Projects voltage regulator replacement which looks just the same as the original unit. Better to disconnect both cut out wires and join them together with the engine on a fast idle. If you still have no charge then the generator is faulty. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:47 AM   #6
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A CUT OUT IS JUST A SET OF POINTS that when the ignition switch is Off they are open, IF THEY STICK CLOSED ANB YOU SHUT IGNITION OFF the AMP gage will get burned out ,! Been there done that 1 A funspot cut out may be a better choice.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

If you have a stock generator...it has a third brush built in that is adjustable. Remove the band around the generator and it should be the brush that is facing you. "Push" it with a screw driver one or way or the other and then start the car and see if there is any difference in the reading. If it is showing more of a discharge, turn the car "off" and adjust the brush in the other direction. Start the car again and see if the ammeter is charging more this time. If there is no difference the readings...you may have a generator problem or a wiring problem.
Good luck, Pat
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

If you take the belt off and put power to the output post the generator should "motor", if it doesn't there is a internal problem

If there are 2 wires coming out of inside one is a field ground that needs to be grounded unless it is connected to a oval cutout that has a voltage regulator too (many that were rebuilt got converted to this)
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Jim,


It would help if you shared which '32 generator you have; four or V8 and original (no wires, just a threaded stud protruding) or later (with protruding wires)?
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Finally got some photos. Who works on these? Cut out looks like a modern seated unit.
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File Type: jpg gen 2.jpg (43.3 KB, 97 views)
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Your generator has been rebuilt/replaced at some point in its life given that it has wires rather than a threaded stud in back of the cutout. Further, given the location of the emerging wires, the center section of your generator is not the '32 variety, if that matters to you. If it were a '32, the wires would be emanating from about the middle of the top of the generator, not at the back. It's not a Model A center section either as if it were, the wires would emanating from the front of the center section. Which leaves the interesting question of what is it?
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

It is a POS that doesn't charge....LOL where do I get a good one. By the way, since you remember my Tudor, Apparently my motor noise was all the babbitt being blown out...per the new owners... good think I represented it as a questionable motor.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Oct 1928 through March 1930 had the output terminal near the front . From March 1930 through the end of Model A production had the output terminal toward the rear of the generator.


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Old 02-01-2020, 09:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Ive seen way too many times shorted out field coils and/or armatures due to overheating/overcharging. They are quite fun to rebuild and the only real specialized tool you would need is a armature growler. Field coils are available NEW and in your case with the 4 cyl. I believe the armature is as well.

A Easy test is to set the generator in a vise, and connect a battery charger (6V) to it. if it motors (spins) it should charge to some degree.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Bob C,


Thanks for the enlightenment; my knowledge of Model As is clearly lacking.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Ive seen way too many times shorted out field coils and/or armatures due to overheating/overcharging. They are quite fun to rebuild and the only real specialized tool you would need is a armature growler. Field coils are available NEW and in your case with the 4 cyl. I believe the armature is as well.

A Easy test is to set the generator in a vise, and connect a battery charger (6V) to it. if it motors (spins) it should charge to some degree.
Is there any kind of manual for these? All I saw in the service manual was something about moving the middle brush, which doesn't seem to apply here. I am going to try replacing the cutout.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

The cutout is nothing more than a set of points, you can jump the cutout and see if it charges. Have another person on hand when you do to watch the gauge. as if the field coils are shorted you could ruin a battery if jumped as there is no protection (fuse) in that circuit


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Old 02-02-2020, 12:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Moving the 3rd brush is what changes the charging rate. Do you show a discharge with the head lights on??
Paul in CT Is this a NEW problem??
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

I appreciate the trouble shooting. Although I have been on here a long time, mechanically I am still a novice. I am number one, looking to see if it the the right Generator... not show quality correct, works correct. Then trouble shoot it. perfectly willing to just buy one that works
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Old 02-03-2020, 03:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Jim1932
Pop over to the A forum, couple of B guys there might be able to help you more.
Love the coupe.
Paul in CT
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Old 02-08-2020, 04:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

I would rather work out a correct Generator. Reorganized the shop today.... found this one. Looks right for a B?
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File Type: jpg IMG_2790.jpg (23.3 KB, 21 views)
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Old 02-08-2020, 04:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

And I am rewiring the car Monday with a kit from Rhode Island Wiring. I liked the kit I got from Tyree for the Tudor, but this one was in the spare parts that came with the car.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Jim,


The generator in your photos is a typical rebuilt (at some point in its past) unit with a mixture of parts from different model years. It has the correct front stamping, but the back cover is '34 and the center section is Model A. The terminal post on an original '32 B generator was in the middle of the housing so that when the cutout is attached the connection for the output wire is at the front of the cutout. I can't tell from the photos, but the original B pulley was cast iron (carried over from the Model A). The rebuilds often show up with the later stamped pulley.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Jim,


Like so.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

The spare generator will spin when hooked straight to a battery and is closer to correct so I will put that on and see what happens. I am halfway through rewiring car so hopefully between the two that takes care of it. Oh and it does have a pressed pulley. But then again, I am not going for show points.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:05 PM   #26
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Arrggh picked up a more correct generator. Barely tried to spin hooked up to battery, issues when opened up. Can I take everything from generator two and put it in number three?
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Likely, but hooking up a generator to a battery to get it to work like a electric motor is not a test that I'm familiar with.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

testing a generator by "motoring" with a batteyit is a quick way to tell if it will charge. They dont spin very fast when up to snuff, maybe 300 rpms or so. If it spins it will charge, however a generator with a shorted out commutator bar will still spin (at a very very slow rate) and will charge at a very low rate as well (2-4 amps). The ignition system on most Early Fords when setup properly will dram 2.2-2.8 amps assuming no lights are turned on.

Soooo.... the testing a generator with a battery, is a quick easy test to determine if the field coils are shorted or not which is a common issue. If it spins but very slowly it's best to then test the armature on a armature growler to see if a winding or commutator bar is shorted.

I have motored enough of them to tell visually if they have a issue or not..

As a matter of fact currently the generator on my Model B motors when connected to a battery but much slower than normal. I have yet to fix it. It has a short in the armature winding. It charges just enough if I have the lights off.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

They wont spin very fast when you motor them.


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Old 02-19-2020, 10:24 PM   #30
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Jim, if I were you I would just fit that generator onto your car and see if it charges or not. Seeing that you have little experience with generators then I would not try and mix and match parts from the two generators. Testing a generator by connecting it across a battery to motor it IS NOT a conclusive test to know if it will charge correctly if driven. I know what others have posted but I have worked on these things for nearly 60 years and am only trying to pass along what is correct and what is not correct. Make sure the cut out is fitted the right way around. With engine revved up a little the ammeter should show about 6 amps charge which is high enough. That equates to about 10 amps output from the generator allowing for about 4 amps current draw from the ignition coil. If it charges more than 6 amps on the ammeter then the third brush setting is too high and will have to be knocked back. Don't have the generator belt too tight otherwise it places too much load on the generator bearing and end bush. Good luck, Regards, Kevin.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Quote:
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A CUT OUT IS JUST A SET OF POINTS that when the ignition switch is Off they are open, IF THEY STICK CLOSED ANB YOU SHUT IGNITION OFF the AMP gage will get burned out ,! Been there done that 1 A funspot cut out may be a better choice.
Having the ignition switch on or off has nothing to do with the cut out operation. This is how a cut out works. As engine revs are increased then the generator voltage increases and when it rises slightly above the battery voltage then the cut out contacts close and allow a charge to go through to the battery. When engine revs decrease back close to idle speed then the generator voltage decreases to just below battery voltage which allows the cut out contacts to open and therefore disconnect the generator from the battery. Of course the ignition switch has to be ON to run the engine but is in no way connected directly to the cutout. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

Would the generator fitted to the 4 cyl engines be the three brush type?
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:06 AM   #33
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Would the generator fitted to the 4 cyl engines be the three brush type?
Lawrie
Yes, Model A & B engine cars all have a 3 brush generator. Early A powerhouse generators had 3 & 5 brush generators. Regards, Kevin
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:46 AM   #34
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Thanks Kevin.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Basic trouble shooting 32 generator

I will drop it into the car this weekend and see what happens.
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