The Ford Barn

FrankWest · 12-01-2014, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

(1) with key on.
(2)HT wire removed from dizzy, held 1/4 to ground .
(3) turn the motor till points are closed .
(4) open and close points with a screw driver .
(5) spark should jump off the HT wire .

Ted

Will do first thing in the mrning!
Thanks for your help.

Charlie Stephens · 12-01-2014, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George/Maine

If your points are about .014-,015 both, remove to condense wire and use the ohms scale. turn over engine and should see make and brake.
With the point wire off coil place meter there on volts. other end on battery neg.
should read about 5 volts if under dash resister is hooked up.
Also check the end of wire connector at coil make sure it not held on by few strands on wire.

Are you sure there is supposed to be a resister on the 4 cylinder? I don't believe there is one and I can't find one on the wiring diagram.

Charlie Stephens

FrankWest · 12-01-2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Are you sure there is supposed to be a resister on the 4 cylinder? I don't believe there is one and I can't find one on the wiring diagram.

Charlie Stephens

No Resistor
If I have to set the gap between the points is that a simple thing to do?
Do I need a special wrench or only a screw driver?

Mike B · 12-01-2014, 10:13 PM

Frank,

I might suggest if you have never gapped points before, you should have someone around that has.

I appreciate your tenacity to do this yourself...but sometimes you really need a better trained eye that get things one the right track.

Good luck, and may she run soon!

DavidG · 12-02-2014, 06:05 AM

Frank,

Please don't go looking for a resistor under the dash or anywhere else on the car. There wasn't one on your four-cylinder car originally and there shouldn't be one there now.

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 08:02 AM

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just hand cranked my engine slowly in an attempt tp get the points to touch..
They never touched... only slightly moved...approx 0.025 in

How much range of movement should there be? 0.015 to 0.0?
It may be hard to see the movement difference?
In one complete revolution of the engine should the points open and close 4 times?

Just curious... the car ran fine for hours several weeks ago...
Why would the points have moved apart? If anything after sitting dormant for 20 years you would think their adjusting screw would have been frozen solid??? Seems strange.

4dFord/SC · 12-02-2014, 09:13 AM

They're not supposed to touch--that's why they are gapped.

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC

They're not supposed to touch--that's why they are gapped.

they are supposed to touch during spark and space after to gap. This is what ignites the gasoline

great site
http://modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 10:10 AM

New Discovery....
As I crank the engine my distributor Cam lobe is NOT turning! So the point gap remanin constant at approx 0.25! I hope the problem can be solved by replacing the Cam Lobe.....
Should I ask these questions on the Model A forum? This is a model B engine.
I believe the distributor is identical to a model A

Bob C · 12-02-2014, 11:37 AM

You may have a stripped camshaft drive gear
or less likely a bad distributor drive gear.
Bob

4dFord/SC · 12-02-2014, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

they are supposed to touch during spark and space after to gap. This is what ignites the gasoline

great site
http://modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

Oops! Scratch that–what was I thinking?

Mart · 12-02-2014, 12:12 PM

Frank, you need to pull the distributor to see why it isn't turning. It's more likely that the whole shaft isn't turning, rather than the problem being isolated to the cam/rotor.

Pull a sparkplug and watch the valves* as the engine turns over. Turn it 2 turns minimum. If you can't see the valves moving you may have stripped the cam gear.

(*I'm not a 4 banger man, can you see the valves through the plug hole, like you can on a V8?)

Mart.

Charlie Stephens · 12-02-2014, 12:21 PM

Take off the distributer cap and pull the rotor up and off. The cam is held to the shaft with a screw and if you are extremely lucky it has come loose (probably not). Try to rotate the shaft by hand (it shouldn’t rotate). Next you need to remove the screw in the side of the block (sort of a stud with a screw slot on the end with a lock nut) that holds the distributer in the block. After the screw is out lift the distributer up and out of the block. If you are lucky oil and a hard pull by hand will remove it. Be VERY careful if you try to remove it with hammers, chisels and screwdrivers. The distributer bodies are often stuck in the block and they are easy to break. They make a special puller to remove the distributer (try Bratton’s, (301) 829-9880). There should be a shaft coming out of the bottom the distributer held by a pin, check to be sure it is good. You can see an illustration of the distributer at
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributordetails.htm. If everything checks out so far remove the side cover from the block. You can turn the engine with the crank and see if the valves move (meaning the cam is turning). If the cam is not turning the timing gear is probably stripped. If the cam turns there should be a part that fits in a hole at the bottom of the oil gallery with a spring holding it in. Lift off the spring and lift it out. There is a shaft that extends through this piece that has a gear on the end that mates with the gear on the camshaft, check to be sure the gear is OK and pinned to the shaft. If you need distributer parts the best source is probably Renner’s Corner, rennerscorner.com, (734) 428-8424. Post what you find.

Charlie Stephens

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Take off the distributer cap and pull the rotor up and off. The cam is held to the shaft with a screw and if you are extremely lucky it has come loose (probably not). Try to rotate the shaft by hand (it shouldn’t rotate). Next you need to remove the screw in the side of the block (sort of a stud with a screw slot on the end with a lock nut) that holds the distributer in the block. After the screw is out lift the distributer up and out of the block. If you are lucky oil and a hard pull by hand will remove it. Be VERY careful if you try to remove it with hammers, chisels and screwdrivers. The distributer bodies are often stuck in the block and they are easy to break. They make a special puller to remove the distributer (try Bratton’s, (301) 829-9880). There should be a shaft coming out of the bottom the distributer held by a pin, check to be sure it is good. You can see an illustration of the distributer at
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributordetails.htm. If everything checks out so far remove the side cover from the block. You can turn the engine with the crank and see if the valves move (meaning the cam is turning). If the cam is not turning the timing gear is probably stripped. If the cam turns there should be a part that fits in a hole at the bottom of the oil gallery with a spring holding it in. Lift off the spring and lift it out. There is a shaft that extends through this piece that has a gear on the end that mates with the gear on the camshaft, check to be sure the gear is OK and pinned to the shaft. If you need distributer parts the best source is probably Renner’s Corner, rennerscorner.com, (734) 428-8424. Post what you find.

Charlie Stephens

Will try..

Note! The cam lobe does not free spin by hand.. It move approx 5 degrees rotation but does not free wheel.

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 12:44 PM

I have another distributor on my other model B engine. I guess if i eventually switch that and put it in this car I would have to re-time the engine. Right.
I plan to troubleshoot the distributor on my car but just in case I would swap it out for the other distributer.

Charlie Stephens · 12-02-2014, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Will try..

Note! The cam lobe does not free spin by hand.. It move approx 5 degrees rotation but does not free wheel.

When you turn the rotor, which is attached to the distributer cam gear you should get a small amount of rotation because of the mechanical advance. You can also see this on your other distributer. If the rotor is not turning when you crank the engine you should be able to turn it around when the engine is not running unless I am missing something. Assuming everything is still in the motor, do you mean you can’t turn the distributer cam gear (which is good)?

And yes to your other question, if you replace the distributor you should also plan on timing it.

Charlie Stephens

1931 flamingo · 12-02-2014, 12:54 PM

Does the dist cam lobe turn when you hand crank the engine?? The cam lobe doesn't turn unless the engine is turned over. The lobe is fastened with the screw on top of it. BEFORE loosening anything turn the engine over with the hand crank with the dist cap off and see if the cam rotates.
Frank I feel for you, I can't remember there've been many threads by you but where are you located?? There may be a "A" guy around the corner from you who would be happy to stop by.
Paul in CT

George/Maine · 12-02-2014, 01:32 PM

I just looked at dist. and looks like the tang that drives the dist. is pined.
Its could be removed easy, practice on the other engine.
Also looks like points are set different gap in low spot.

FrankWest · 12-02-2014, 01:39 PM

The cam lobe does not turn,, there is some play approx 5 degrees but otherwise it see attached firmly to the shaft... so i am surprised that iy does not rotate when the engine is hand cranked. If the cam lobe was easily turn by my hand pressure then The shaft could be broken.

George/Maine · 12-02-2014, 01:43 PM

They have a contical advance that's what moves pull the dist.

12-01-2014, 10:13 PM	#64
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Frank, I might suggest if you have never gapped points before, you should have someone around that has. I appreciate your tenacity to do this yourself...but sometimes you really need a better trained eye that get things one the right track. Good luck, and may she run soon!

12-02-2014, 06:05 AM	#65
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,094	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Frank, Please don't go looking for a resistor under the dash or anywhere else on the car. There wasn't one on your four-cylinder car originally and there shouldn't be one there now.

12-02-2014, 08:02 AM	#66
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) just hand cranked my engine slowly in an attempt tp get the points to touch.. They never touched... only slightly moved...approx 0.025 in How much range of movement should there be? 0.015 to 0.0? It may be hard to see the movement difference? In one complete revolution of the engine should the points open and close 4 times? Just curious... the car ran fine for hours several weeks ago... Why would the points have moved apart? If anything after sitting dormant for 20 years you would think their adjusting screw would have been frozen solid??? Seems strange. Last edited by FrankWest; 12-02-2014 at 08:10 AM.

12-02-2014, 09:13 AM	#67
4dFord/SC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,579	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart They're not supposed to touch--that's why they are gapped.

12-02-2014, 10:10 AM	#69
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart New Discovery.... As I crank the engine my distributor Cam lobe is NOT turning! So the point gap remanin constant at approx 0.25! I hope the problem can be solved by replacing the Cam Lobe..... Should I ask these questions on the Model A forum? This is a model B engine. I believe the distributor is identical to a model A

12-02-2014, 11:37 AM	#70
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart You may have a stripped camshaft drive gear or less likely a bad distributor drive gear. Bob Last edited by Bob C; 12-02-2014 at 12:04 PM.

12-02-2014, 12:12 PM	#72
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Frank, you need to pull the distributor to see why it isn't turning. It's more likely that the whole shaft isn't turning, rather than the problem being isolated to the cam/rotor. Pull a sparkplug and watch the valves* as the engine turns over. Turn it 2 turns minimum. If you can't see the valves moving you may have stripped the cam gear. (*I'm not a 4 banger man, can you see the valves through the plug hole, like you can on a V8?) Mart.

12-02-2014, 12:21 PM	#73
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,030	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Take off the distributer cap and pull the rotor up and off. The cam is held to the shaft with a screw and if you are extremely lucky it has come loose (probably not). Try to rotate the shaft by hand (it shouldn’t rotate). Next you need to remove the screw in the side of the block (sort of a stud with a screw slot on the end with a lock nut) that holds the distributer in the block. After the screw is out lift the distributer up and out of the block. If you are lucky oil and a hard pull by hand will remove it. Be VERY careful if you try to remove it with hammers, chisels and screwdrivers. The distributer bodies are often stuck in the block and they are easy to break. They make a special puller to remove the distributer (try Bratton’s, (301) 829-9880). There should be a shaft coming out of the bottom the distributer held by a pin, check to be sure it is good. You can see an illustration of the distributer at http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributordetails.htm. If everything checks out so far remove the side cover from the block. You can turn the engine with the crank and see if the valves move (meaning the cam is turning). If the cam is not turning the timing gear is probably stripped. If the cam turns there should be a part that fits in a hole at the bottom of the oil gallery with a spring holding it in. Lift off the spring and lift it out. There is a shaft that extends through this piece that has a gear on the end that mates with the gear on the camshaft, check to be sure the gear is OK and pinned to the shaft. If you need distributer parts the best source is probably Renner’s Corner, rennerscorner.com, (734) 428-8424. Post what you find. Charlie Stephens

12-02-2014, 12:44 PM	#75
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart I have another distributor on my other model B engine. I guess if i eventually switch that and put it in this car I would have to re-time the engine. Right. I plan to troubleshoot the distributor on my car but just in case I would swap it out for the other distributer.

12-02-2014, 12:54 PM	#77
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart Does the dist cam lobe turn when you hand crank the engine?? The cam lobe doesn't turn unless the engine is turned over. The lobe is fastened with the screw on top of it. BEFORE loosening anything turn the engine over with the hand crank with the dist cap off and see if the cam rotates. Frank I feel for you, I can't remember there've been many threads by you but where are you located?? There may be a "A" guy around the corner from you who would be happy to stop by. Paul in CT

12-02-2014, 01:32 PM	#78
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart I just looked at dist. and looks like the tang that drives the dist. is pined. Its could be removed easy, practice on the other engine. Also looks like points are set different gap in low spot.

12-02-2014, 01:39 PM	#79
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart The cam lobe does not turn,, there is some play approx 5 degrees but otherwise it see attached firmly to the shaft... so i am surprised that iy does not rotate when the engine is hand cranked. If the cam lobe was easily turn by my hand pressure then The shaft could be broken.

12-02-2014, 01:43 PM	#80
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart They have a contical advance that's what moves pull the dist.