1935 babbitt block

[petemachinist]

Good afternoon anyone. I have done alot of searching on here and on the web and have not found anyone who has done a babbitt to insert changeover.
I emailed H and h and others to no avail.
Has anyone done this? I have no quams on doing the conversion just would like to know things like what bearings were used as the bolt spacing of the caps is only 3".
I know rebabbitting is an option as I worked with babbitt and made many pillow block style bearings over the years for the wood industry etc.
I would prefer to convert to inserts on both rods and mains but I am not able to find much information on which bearings to use because of the 3" spacing.
I know finding an LB block or later is an option but I am one of those guys that can't waste the iron and like to do things others say can't be done.
Appreciate any input you can provide.
Cheers
Pete

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by petemachinist

I would prefer to convert to inserts on both rods and mains but I am not able to find much information on which bearings to use because of the 3" spacing.
Pete

I didn't know that the rod bearings were Babbitt. I always thought that just the main bearings were Babbitt....

[petemachinist]

You may be right. I will have to look at them closer as this was a basket case motor. The cool part is the stock aluminum heads that say made in Canada on them.
This is why it's good to ask the guys that know.
Thanks for your input

[Habusailor]

Mains are Babbitt but rod bearings are inserts on a 35


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[rotorwrench]

More commonly called floater bearings. The rod bearings have babbitt formed onto the steel shells to give them support.

I don't know of anyone converting the pre-LB blocks. The model A & B blocks have been converted. There isn't really a lot of call out for folks to go to the trouble that it would take. It would be much easier to have it repoured & machined back to specs. There are still a few shops that have the tooling to do that type of job. The poured babbitt bearings are more stable than any insert type for those small journal crankshafts. Anything can be done but it may not be what you expect. It would likely be pretty expensive too.

[petehoovie]

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rotorwrench - Is the durability of Babbitt bearings equal to that of insert bearings? I've been trying to find literature about Babbitt bearings for quite some time now and there ain't much out there....

[Lawrie]

I would have no qualms a bout using the Babbitt mains,I used a stock 33 engine in my 33 for years,even towed our caravan for a few years,the mains were done in 2000,they still look like new,
Lawrie

[Dave/Green Bay]

Where are you located? There is a shop northwest of Chicago that can re-babbitt or line bore for inserts They do a lot of Model A stuff. If you're close let me know and I can get the name. Dave/Green Bay

[flatheadmurre]

Since the spacing of the main cap bolts is narrower on the babbit block it´not ideal to bore them out for insert bearings.
Poored babbit is as good bearing as an insert.
And babbit come in different mixes starting with leadbabbit that is way to soft for other then rotating shafts to cupper/tin mixes.

[petemachinist]

Thanks for the great responses guys
I’m located in Sault Ste. Marie Ontario Canada
I’m actually a machinist by trade for over 30 years and have worked with Babbitt years ago both machining and pouring
Not scared to pour them myself and align bore just figured I might go inserts since I have other machining to do on the block
Dave in Green Bay perhaps you can message me the name and number for the shop you spoke of
Anyone have a main bearing part number and specs so I can see how much would have to come out
I’ll then decide whether to bore or pour and bore
Keep the feedback coming I appreciate it

Pete

Rod bearing numbers would also be useful or dimensions

[flatheadmurre]

If you have babbit mains you need the flanged rod bearings 48-6211-size.
The ford bearings will need you to bore clean out to the main studs...i have no other main bearings that work better up my sleeve...go poored bearings is my 2c.

[Yoyodyne]

H&H does or did do the conversion to inserts. I spoke to Mike about it on the phone a few years ago. He uses inserts from a newer engine and turns the crank down to fit. Mike told me the center main becomes the thrust bearing. He doesn't want to divulge what engine the inserts come from which is understandable but said supply is not an issue and plenty of undersizes are available.

[rotorwrench]

I don't know if I'd like the idea of the center main web being the thrust face or not. That's the weak spot on the flathead blocks. For just puttering around town it might be OK but could be problematic otherwise. The banger conversions use thrust washer halves on the front and rear surface of the rear main by counter boring and pinning in one spot to prevent rotation. Going even smaller on the crank journals would likely be a must too but they are already pretty small. All that just sounds iffy to me. It makes poured babbitt sound better and better.

[JM 35 Sedan]

H&H is/was the only well known engine builder/re-builder, that I'm aware of, converting poured babbitt blocks to insert mains. When I looked into this year's ago, my concerns were modifying the block within the confines of 3" mains studs, and further reducing the diameter of crankshaft main journals which are already anemic.

[Kurt in NJ]

The babbitt block has very large oil passage cast into it, the insert would have to span a big empty space without support

[JM 35 Sedan]

As others have already said, and I would agree, have the babbitt re poured and line bored, or sell that block and find a 21 stud LB, 36, 37, or early 38. The 37, E38 can be bored to 3-3/16" for a performance improvement.

[petemachinist]

Thank you for all the great responses it is appreciated.
When I figure out the direction I will go which I'm thinking is a rebabbitt I'll will follow up with pictures.
Thanks again
Pete

[JM 35 Sedan]

Pete, please do followup on your original post. So many folks ask for help/direction on various issues, but few actually followup and let us know how they decided to go and what the outcome was.

[petemachinist]

Will do John,

Just getting the block back and great news no cracks after mag particle check
I will take pics of what I do and post. I'm even thinking of boring the seats to take inserts.
Having my own machine shop equipment makes it easier for me to play. Would love to see this old block fire up again. I hate wasting good iron..Just ask my wife she talks about my scrap bins when she comes to the shop...Just never know what you need and when...Thanks for all your input..

Pete

[jimTN]

Your babbit may be good anyway. Check the clearance with plastigauge. Normally on babbit all you have to do is pull some shims to tighten up the bearings.