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Old 01-21-2018, 03:23 PM   #1
Kevin in NJ
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Default The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

So the article about the improving the improvement of using modern points needs some references and fact checking.

Original point contact brass or phospher bronze? Really??? How come all the Ford script new and well use points all have quality tungston on them? What about the pile of perfectly good used Standard ignition points I have in a jar with tungsten points?
Now the gyp points I have are some kind of silver grey color. They are obviously not a quality metal as they have oxidized.


Point float at 45 MPH with original points?? Let us see the data. That would mean a lot of A's are violating some rules running 65 MPH with original points.

What about that plate which is a just a stamped piece, how well does keep the points the center of the dist? Those V8 points are not always well aligned and need to be fixed. That orginals were fully adjustable in position. I measured a NOS plate on a slightly worn dist housing and know I have a couple of thou of play in the operational position. I have heard that the stamped unit for the V8 points is not that accurate. I have not actually measured one myself.

Then there is the idea that the new condensors are better. Sorry, not so much anymore. Go read in the mustang forums where they have problems with new Motorcraft units cause they are low bid china parts. We know that the burnout proof units from A&L just keep on working. I think anyone would be smart to run with that unit because of the low bid problem with the new V8 units. I should add I work as an electronics engineer and have replaced my fair share of bad caps. It does not cost a lot more to get a much higher rated capacitor that will last for a very long time. The unit on my brothers cars has been in operation for decades by now.

I realize it is difficult to get people writting, but they should not be letting anything go. Fact checked with references, not some guy shooting from the hip. Plus really how does this help with the basic function of the club?

I am pretty sure it is about preservation of the original car.

Why do we keep getting just wrong information about original parts and poorly written articles about things that do not actually improve the car. In fact, I probably could prove these parts reduce the reliablity of the car of I cared enough to buy the parts and compare.

I think it important that these articles need to be tempered by the fact there are likely thousands of cars out there running all original parts with no problems for decades. By reading the article you might come away thinking the points are a big problem for the cars. In reality is they are close to set and forget if you do them right (well yes you need to adjust time from time to time).

Some notes on the pictures. The first 3 are of the plate I put on my dist. It is a NOS Ford upper plate with NOS Ford script points. Kind of hard to see the tungsten in the pictures. What you need to notice is the hole in the middle of the plate. That hole is ground round for accuracy in location of the points and to ensure a flat surface. The "improved" upper plate is just stamped and the hole is not as accurately formed. Since it is not a good surface it will wear fast in service causing more variablity in the gap on the points as the plate moves. A great improvement!
The old dist is from my brothers car. That is the plate assembled by a 15 year old back in 1970 or so. Those are the same points that came with the car. It was too hard to see the manufacturer, but we could make out a circle on them. Yes, it is due for some lube. Well the car is kind of due for a proper restoration, but it still runs 60 MPH with no complants. Best hold on tight if he hits the brakes too.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:32 PM   #2
duke36
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Some of us may find it easier to adjust the original points gap with one screw
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Old 01-21-2018, 04:55 PM   #3
Ron in Quincy
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I have a 30 Coupe with insert main and Rod bearings, 5.4 High Compression Head, A8 Clutch, 37 pound fly wheel, counter balanced flywheel, and full flow oil filter. A 354 rear end because of the additional horse power.

I am running a stock rebuilt distributor and rebuilt stock carburetor, did the rebuild myself, have about 1500 miles on the A with no problems.

Why should I change to a modified Distributor, electronic ignition, and other modern updates ?

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Old 01-21-2018, 06:11 PM   #4
Ron in Quincy
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Forget to mention, my 30 Coupe is 6 Volt positive ground. The only original items replaced is the fan, with a new 2 blade and the pitman arm with a new short one from Snyder.

With everything else Stock its easy to work on and I would not hesitate to drive it across the USA.

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Old 01-21-2018, 06:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in Quincy View Post
I have a 30 Coupe with insert main and Rod bearings, 5.4 High Compression Head, A8 Clutch, 37 pound fly wheel, counter balanced flywheel, and full flow oil filter. A 354 rear end because of the additional horse power.

I am running a stock rebuilt distributor and rebuilt stock carburetor, did the rebuild myself, have about 1500 miles on the A with no problems.

Why should I change to a modified Distributor, electronic ignition, and other modern updates ?

Ron
I guess it's human nature, but it's kind of funny that the ONLY modifications anyone should make to their Model A...are the ones I'VE made.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

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I think the problem lies with people erroneously thinking that "newer is always better". What we need to remember is "If it's not broken, don't fix it!".
Also keep in mind the modern business model of producing a product as cheaply as possible to maximize short term profit. Top quality products can be made in any country in the world, but the U.S. businessman wants it at low bid, just good enough to sell. "Pride of workmanship?" What's that?
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

The modern style points are getting not's so modern anymore. I've always noticed we always try to out do "Old Henry" but when the dust all settles he had it figured out.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:14 PM   #8
Rich in Tucson
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I absolutely prefer the original setup and use it. But if you must repair a car that has the "modern" points and condenser, go to a real auto parts store (or you r favorite online source but not any of the Model A vendors) and ask for the Standard brand but be sure to ask for the "Blue Streak" version, not their cheaper versions. The wire on the condenser is blue, not black and not orange, and the points have an oiling pad for the rubbing block. If they don't list the Blue Streak version, go elsewhere to shop.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Why would one want to make more work for themselves? Stay with the way Henry made it.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:43 PM   #10
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
So the article about the improving the improvement of using modern points needs some references and fact checking.

Original point contact brass or phospher bronze? Really??? How come all the Ford script new and well use points all have quality tungston on them? What about the pile of perfectly good used Standard ignition points I have in a jar with tungsten points?
Now the gyp points I have are some kind of silver grey color. They are obviously not a quality metal as they have oxidized.


Point float at 45 MPH with original points?? Let us see the data. That would mean a lot of A's are violating some rules running 65 MPH with original points.

What about that plate which is a just a stamped piece, how well does keep the points the center of the dist? Those V8 points are not always well aligned and need to be fixed. That orginals were fully adjustable in position. I measured a NOS plate on a slightly worn dist housing and know I have a couple of thou of play in the operational position. I have heard that the stamped unit for the V8 points is not that accurate. I have not actually measured one myself.

Then there is the idea that the new condensors are better. Sorry, not so much anymore. Go read in the mustang forums where they have problems with new Motorcraft units cause they are low bid china parts. We know that the burnout proof units from A&L just keep on working. I think anyone would be smart to run with that unit because of the low bid problem with the new V8 units. I should add I work as an electronics engineer and have replaced my fair share of bad caps. It does not cost a lot more to get a much higher rated capacitor that will last for a very long time. The unit on my brothers cars has been in operation for decades by now.

I realize it is difficult to get people writting, but they should not be letting anything go. Fact checked with references, not some guy shooting from the hip. Plus really how does this help with the basic function of the club?

I am pretty sure it is about preservation of the original car.

Why do we keep getting just wrong information about original parts and poorly written articles about things that do not actually improve the car. In fact, I probably could prove these parts reduce the reliablity of the car of I cared enough to buy the parts and compare.

I think it important that these articles need to be tempered by the fact there are likely thousands of cars out there running all original parts with no problems for decades. By reading the article you might come away thinking the points are a big problem for the cars. In reality is they are close to set and forget if you do them right (well yes you need to adjust time from time to time).

Some notes on the pictures. The first 3 are of the plate I put on my dist. It is a NOS Ford upper plate with NOS Ford script points. Kind of hard to see the tungsten in the pictures. What you need to notice is the hole in the middle of the plate. That hole is ground round for accuracy in location of the points and to ensure a flat surface. The "improved" upper plate is just stamped and the hole is not as accurately formed. Since it is not a good surface it will wear fast in service causing more variablity in the gap on the points as the plate moves. A great improvement!
The old dist is from my brothers car. That is the plate assembled by a 15 year old back in 1970 or so. Those are the same points that came with the car. It was too hard to see the manufacturer, but we could make out a circle on them. Yes, it is due for some lube. Well the car is kind of due for a proper restoration, but it still runs 60 MPH with no complants. Best hold on tight if he hits the brakes too.
Who was the author of the article?
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:57 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Over time I have read many articles in the restorer with erroneous and misleading information concerning Model A components; function, operation, and repair.
With regard to the restorer I have noticed that censorship is alive and well.
2018 will be my last year with this "club?".
Too much wrong info, political views, and censorship. I don't need to pay for what I can get for free.
This is my opinion based on my experience and observation.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Kevin, I fully agree with what you said. I am dissapointed that a magazine named "the restorer" would print articles on modifications.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

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Kevin, I fully agree with what you said. I am dissapointed that a magazine named "the restorer" would print articles on modifications.

Funny thing, I have always thought both club's magazine was not named correctly. The Model-A News seems to fit the Club of America better and The Restorer seemed to be a better name for the MARC club.

From my perspective, the difficult issue of this entire scenario is both magazines likely need articles for content. Most authors likely feel like they are experienced at what they write about, ...and if that author submits an article and the Magazine Editor wants to edit the content of the article, it likely ticks off the author and they will retract their submission. So now the editorial staff must walk a fine-line of choosing how much inaccuracies they are willing to accept vs. not having any content at all. Tough scenario to be in.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I just don't pay much attention to articles that refer to modifications in either magazine . I think the MARC magazine holds much information that keeps closer to original .
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Gave up on both a long time ago.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I was somewhat amazed by that article myself. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
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Gave up on both a long time ago.
Please explain why..2 of the best magazines in the hobby and both award winning .. Why give up..
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I suspect that the editor sometimes find him/herself scrambling for copy to fill the magazine and make deadline. Maybe if the editors had more material submitted to choose from? Just a thought.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

... never mind.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Unbelievable we are so fortunate to have both clubs.
We all need to ask ourselves what we have done to promote our hobby.
This crap talked keeps our future mode A enthusiasts away.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post
Kevin, I fully agree with what you said. I am dissapointed that a magazine named "the restorer" would print articles on modifications.
I'd agree if it were not for the fact that about 98% of A's out there already have some sort of modifications.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I agree with Mark Maron #17 above . I re-read my post and it didn't come out right . I like both magazines but perfer the articles that explain how the car or parts were as they come from the factory as apposed to the modifications . I have been getting both club magazines for over 35 years and have no plans of dropping anytime soon . Norm
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:00 PM   #23
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X2 x2
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

But now that it is in print it is now true.

Such boldfaced incorrect info!
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:48 PM   #25
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The repop upper plate I had for a very short time was a total POS.

Thank goodness I had an original SP marked upper plate when I converted BACK to the original Henry Ford design. I like that set up a lot better and don't plan on ever going back. Throw in an A&L condensor and you are off to the races.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Who was the author of the article?
Check your PM
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Funny thing, I have always thought both club's magazine was not named correctly. The Model-A News seems to fit the Club of America better and The Restorer seemed to be a better name for the MARC club.

From my perspective, the difficult issue of this entire scenario is both magazines likely need articles for content. Most authors likely feel like they are experienced at what they write about, ...and if that author submits an article and the Magazine Editor wants to edit the content of the article, it likely ticks off the author and they will retract their submission. So now the editorial staff must walk a fine-line of choosing how much inaccuracies they are willing to accept vs. not having any content at all. Tough scenario to be in.
Model A world 'fake news'????
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Been a MAFCA member since 1962 and have no plans to drop my membership. The "A" people I have met over the years is what makes this such a great hobby.
When asked for my opinion I say the "A" is yours, you do what ever is pleasing to you. All my "A"s have Black Walls, metal valve stems, and black wheels, they sell lots of white wall tires so many people must like them.

By the way, I meant my Engine has a counter balanced Crankshaft, not flywheel. Hell to get old !!!!

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Old 01-22-2018, 09:14 PM   #29
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I must have led a sheltered life because I don't think I have ever seen
brass point contacts.

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Old 01-23-2018, 12:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I must have led a sheltered life because I don't think I have ever seen
brass point contacts.

Bob
Exactly the point, now that it is in print, people will quote it thinking it is true when it is not.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:11 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Makes you wonder if the Author was just sitting at his PC making up an Article just for the Money.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:22 PM   #32
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Also, Who if anyone does the Proof Reading ??
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:40 PM   #33
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Makes you wonder if the Author was just sitting at his PC making up an Article just for the Money.
X2! (or more)
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:54 PM   #34
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Could not agree more "barkleydave"!
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:05 PM   #35
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Biggest problem I see with this whole string is there are a lot of people out there that are not members of ether club and have no idea what was in the story in the first place. He is not doing it for the money. Even if he did get paid, how much would the Restorer pay? He does get some things wrong but he is at least trying, how many of you are sitting behind the computer commenting now has ever submitted anything to one of the publications? Maybe you should and we call can gang up and rip it apart.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:41 AM   #36
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Folks here can be brutal.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:26 AM   #37
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I changed my mind.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

it is not about modifying a car that is up to you. It is about putting out completely false information.
If they want to print a article about modifying a car at least get it right. I have modified cars but I do not call myself the restorer club.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:16 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Biggest problem I see with this whole string is there are a lot of people out there that are not members of ether club and have no idea what was in the story in the first place. He is not doing it for the money. Even if he did get paid, how much would the Restorer pay? He does get some things wrong but he is at least trying, how many of you are sitting behind the computer commenting now has ever submitted anything to one of the publications? Maybe you should and we call can gang up and rip it apart.

Along with this and for those of you who have pointed out the problem or problems (in any written article in eithr magizine)...how about taking it up with the editors and club officers of both clubs or do you not want to do this?

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Old 01-24-2018, 02:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I too think both magazines are excellent, I do appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time to share knowledge by writing an article. It does help sustain the hobby more so than not.

I would suggest contacting magazine editors or other officers to offer corrections or suggestions, just my opinion
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:51 PM   #41
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I have contacted editors and talked to upper level officers in years past.

I brought it up here because it still keeps happening. I felt some comments needed to be made on this board about this particular article.The information was just so wrong that something needed to be said before less experienced A owners were taking it as true.

I really think they need to print a correction about this in the next issue.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:05 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

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Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
I have contacted editors and talked to upper level officers in years past.

I brought it up here because it still keeps happening. I felt some comments needed to be made on this board about this particular article.The information was just so wrong that something needed to be said before less experienced A owners were taking it as true.

I really think they need to print a correction about this in the next issue.
Then Kevin, step up to the plate and voice your opinion to the MAFCA office, the Board of Directors and ask them to do so...I for one would like to hear what they have to say about it.

You might would like to show us the letter you address to them so we can all be informed of the action and if possible, their responce.

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Old 01-24-2018, 09:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

To the best of my knowledge, nobody gets paid for writing articles. Sorry Lawrie. :-) There are very few people alive today that were around when our cars were on every highway and byway in the country and farther. There were things done to our Model As that would appall us but they ran and are most probably in our garages.

We can all remember bad information accepted as gospel. How many times have you given advice only to find the inquirer has been talking to 6 or 8 different people and getting 6 or 8 different answers? "What kind of oil should I use" Must I tear down my engine to install hardened valve seats? Is my engine going to self destruct if I use unleaded gas without adding something? Are my cam lobes going to wear to a nub without adding zinc or something else? How many carburetors were drilled and tapped wrong without knowing it is a metric thread ? There even a couple of goofs in Les Andrew's book.

How many are actually experts on this subject? Apparently many as seen on this post.. Why haven't you written that article?

There is a need for a true expert on the subject to correct the misinformation.

The editor needs to print a disclaimer that a substantial amount of incorrect information was printed in the original article " prematurely".

My take on the subject. I couldn't write a definitive article on the subject. Lets give them a break. They volunteered, produced the article. It wasn't reviewed by you guys prior to printing.

Lets move on.

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Old 01-24-2018, 10:32 PM   #44
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It's hard to come up with new material on the Model A, seems like in 60 plus years of The Restorer and Model A News just about everything has been covered at one time or another. Except maybe which way a slotted screw on the dash panel should be oriented and most don't really care about that too much anyway it is too trivial.

Plus, the really knowledgeable guys are either dead or have been run off by rudeness never to appear again.

SO what or who is left, but dummies like me
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:53 PM   #45
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I read the story today in the Restorer and what I got was there are 4 price levels of points, the lowest cost you can buy today has bronze contact point the upper two are tungsten and platinum. If there was something about the original points being bronze I must have missed it.

The main point of the story is how to install a rocker pin to be used to set the point gap on the modern Nu-Rex points plate. The modern Nu-Rex plate does not have a provision to allow simple adjustment like most other point plates using a screw driver to move the point open or closed.

Maybe ether people have not read the story because they are not members of the club or missed the real point of it.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:22 AM   #46
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I have used both type of points in all m
y model a cars. If the so called modern points were such junk as Kevin states why was auto industry selling many million cars over 30 years with this type points.
Brake down on the road and try and purchase original type points. It won't happen.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:28 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
It's hard to come up with new material on the Model A, seems like in 60 plus years of The Restorer and Model A News just about everything has been covered at one time or another. Except maybe which way a slotted screw on the dash panel should be oriented and most don't really care about that too much anyway it is too trivial.

Plus, the really knowledgeable guys are either dead or have been run off by rudeness never to appear again.

SO what or who is left, but dummies like me
"Run off by rudeness.." More true than most realize. Also, the comments about remaining expertise is true. If you know something is not explained properly, correct it here, but with some respect..
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:19 AM   #48
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I have used both type of points in all m
y model a cars. If the so called modern points were such junk as Kevin states why was auto industry selling many million cars over 30 years with this type points.
Brake down on the road and try and purchase original type points. It won't happen.
Please read and think before you write!!!!

I have not said the modern points are junk. The are not needed and the new plate is not as accurately made like the factory plate. It is a solution to a non existent problem and is probably a good profit point for the people who sell them. Just like the alternators.

I did state modern condensers are not as good as you might hope. That is a different story. The points, designed in the 1950's, work great. I mean really what are points but a frame to hold 2 pieces of tungsten and a wear block. A very very simple and reliable design. They only suffer from low cost units that use low quality wear blocks and tungsten. It is likely the new design were simpler to install on the line reducing labor costs. They were not changed because they were more reliable, they were changed because Ford could make more money with them.

Now I was very clear the reproduction plate is not as good as the original. You do know the plate uses the center hole as the bearing and this hole must be tight on the dist? Ford ground the hole to size. The repro is just stamped steel and will be loose to begin with and then wear some till it is flat making it looser.

I am sorry, but the break down on the road comment is just not realistic.

How many cars have ever broken down on the road where the points needed to be changed? I have never had the problem and I have a lot of miles on the road with point based cars. Condensers, coils yes, points NO.

Points are small if you are that paranoid carry a spare used set. Heck I have a jar of em, you could carry 10 points and not even notice.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:32 AM   #49
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Wait, you may have missed the point of these tech articles. You may never reach 100% accuracy in everyone's mind, but bringing up different ideas a talking points is really what it is all about.

I don't think modern points or original points is the best way to go FOR ME. However, I enjoyed the thoughts and ideas presented in the article, and found it generally educational. Personally, I did not find a ton of errors in the article, as some of you assert. Some of you complained about his specifieing the bronze material. Well, I know that some really soft materials that look like brass or bronze are used as points in some hit n miss engine magnitos I've worked on, so this would not surprise me, but that doesn't matter, the point was that there are different quality of materials available. Some comp!aimed about making any modification to a model A, because apparently Henry got it all as good as it could be the first time. Maybe you need to consider all the other changes you have made to your As. Or better yet, maybe you just need to get rid of all your newer cars and drive only model As, since a totally stock A is as good as it gets. While I don't contend this modification is for everyone, if you are going to make it, the author has raised so salient points for you to consider.

Some of you made fun of the author suggesting to zip tie your bumper if you have the crappy cast bumper clamps. I bet that the club member whose bumper fell off and got run over and ruined on our tour would have loved to have those zip ties. Had he read that article prior to running over his bumper, her could have perhaps saved several hundred dollars of grief and countless embarasment, as we don't let him forget The incident. The point of that article being; You may not be aware, but there are some junk bumper clamps out there guys, and here is at least SOMETHING you can do until you replace them with better quality forged clamps.

Some have suggested that this article was written for profit alone. How wrong you are. Not only is there no pay for submitting articles, there is no reward, especially when this sort of abuse is piled on the author. I know this author personally, and he is a very knowledgeable person, with much higher qualifications in the automotive and machine fields than most of us could think of. He is also a man of honor, who has contributed so very much of his time and knowledge to this endevour. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for piling on as you have. Sure, one or two minor points of one of two of his articles may not line up with you opinions, and the very occational fact may be disputed, but to treat a fellow model Aer like this is shameful.

Please try to be curtious and thoughtful of others before attacking in this manner. And if you feel the magazine articles are nothing but crap, why do you read them, you obviously know it all anyway, and have your mind made up without them. Give a guy a break!!!
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:40 PM   #50
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Ditto!
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:15 PM   #51
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Wait, you may have missed the point of these tech articles.

Please try to be curtious and thoughtful of others before attacking in this manner. And if you feel the magazine articles are nothing but crap, why do you read them, you obviously know it all anyway, and have your mind made up without them. Give a guy a break!!!
Hi Corley, I respectfully feel like YOU are the one that is missed the point. I think more to the point is that both of the car clubs have built the majority of their membership base by offering a Magazine that is/was considered to be fact-filled publication that promoted the restoration and preservation of the Model-A. Much like a sermon preached from the pulpit of a church, the magazine too is expected to be held to the utmost standard of truthfulness. When facts are deviated from during a sermon, the entire congregation suffers as it sends the wrong message. The same applies here.

As for giving this gentleman a break, I agree however he has published quite a bit of misinformation over time yet when I look at the entire tone of this thread, it appears the Club and its' Publisher is the one that is being questioned. Maybe this circumstance is what it takes to address future protocol when instances like this surface in the future.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I'll let this one go a little longer, but a couple of reminders:

1. If you can't express your opinion without bagging on someone else's, please express your opinion some place else.

2. At some point, you gotta realize we are all in this together.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:02 PM   #53
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I live in a remote part of Northern Cal. with the closest club being about 100 miles away so I depend on the publications of both national clubs as well as this site to keep connected with the Model A world. I've had and use my 29 couple for over 50 years and keep it stock and as simple as possible, unrestored. I really appreciate and read all that is written by the volunteer authors and want to say thanks for all who share their knowledge, experience, photographs and great stories, Bill
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:16 PM   #54
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Thank You Ryan. For me, Nuff said.
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:59 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I want to make a correction, he did say that the original points were bronze but then he also was talking about the spring so maybe there was just a little confusion in what he meant.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:06 PM   #56
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I want to make a correction, he did say that the original points were bronze but then he also was talking about the spring so maybe there was just a little confusion in what he meant.
This comes back to some of my original points.

The editors job is to make sure the article is correct. If the editor is not familiar he should pass it on to technically proficient people to comment on the material.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:22 PM   #57
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Meanwhile, on Page 18 of the Restorer there is an excellent article entitled "Hot or Not: Radiator Servicing-Tanking or Rodding" by Keith Collins. Very informative with pictures of what blocked radiator tubes look like and what to do about it.

(Oh, and I run original points FWIW)
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:31 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Wow! Correcting misinformation seems to be a touchy subject, with room for improvement on both sides of what seems to a fence, a division for some reason. I feel that (while maintaining civility, respect, and manners) incorrect information, misquotes, wrong data, etc. needs to pointed out, and the correct information provided. Preferably with reliable sources being provided as needed. Personal opinion and preferences abound when it comes to Model A maintenance and repair, and sharing these is beneficial. We pick and choose what we like, but if and when someone puts out the wrong info and we know better, it's time to speak up! The voice of experience should carry a lot of weight. Conjecture, rumor and urban myth on the other hand, not so much!
If the evidence proves us wrong on something, why not just say "I stand corrected"?
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:22 AM   #59
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

"The editors job is to make sure the article is correct. If the editor is not familiar he should pass it on to technically proficient people to comment on the material."

This is particularly true with technical articles. I have found that with a number of the club publications, editing is not always the best. Even the paid publications have challenges with this. As someone who does a lot of editing in my job, it is time consuming and you don't always catch all the mistakes. The more eyes, the better, but those eyes may not see all that well or are unavailable!

If it hasn't been suggested already, maybe one of the commenters could write an article as a follow-up to that article. There is no guarantee that it will get published, of course, but that is one way to address the matter. No need to trash the author of the article -
just provide another viewpoint on the topic.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:45 PM   #60
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Wow! Correcting misinformation seems to be a touchy subject, with room for improvement on both sides of what seems to a fence, a division for some reason. I feel that (while maintaining civility, respect, and manners) incorrect information, misquotes, wrong data, etc. needs to pointed out, and the correct information provided. Preferably with reliable sources being provided as needed. Personal opinion and preferences abound when it comes to Model A maintenance and repair, and sharing these is beneficial. We pick and choose what we like, but if and when someone puts out the wrong info and we know better, it's time to speak up! The voice of experience should carry a lot of weight. Conjecture, rumor and urban myth on the other hand, not so much!
If the evidence proves us wrong on something, why not just say "I stand corrected"?
You got that right. Whenever a correction comes up here on the barn there are those that will defend the incorrect information and for some reason attack the person that is just trying to help us all understand what is correct and what is not? People entering the old car hobby now and more so in the future will have little if any experience with point ignitions and the other systems that were once commonplace.

When reading a thread like this one must ask themselves, is what is being said correct? Sure it is great that the author stepped up and wrote something to be published and it equally important that the information is correct. Let's not shoot the messenger.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:55 PM   #61
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The Restorer has a new editor. How about helping him with some GOOD articles?
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:18 AM   #62
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I spoke with the author of the Restorer article on modern points, and got some information I thought I'd share here. First, he said that he spent several hours on the phone with the Echlin engineers, while writing this article. (Echlin makes NAPA ignition parts.) The part #s and materials for the modern points in question are as follows:


Contact material
Bronze Phosphor CS 755 Standard Basic
Tungsten CS 751 Premium
Platinum CS 755 Heavy Duty


Turns out that bronze phospher is used as the contact material on most relay applications, and is in fact a good material for this application, much cheaper than the other two metals, and therefore there is a good chance that Henry may have used it in his OEM parts. He tried to also point out other quality differences between the parts in question.


The next item in question was the mention of point float. The issue that the author was trying to get across there was simply that because the rubbing block material on the OEM parts was not as robust as todays materials and wore faster, the spring had to be lighter/weaker to control rubbing block wear. With a weaker spring comes the possibility that if it is below specs on tension, the points could float pretty easily. Also, if the moveable arm pivot point has any binding, the spring may not reliably overcome the bind and hence, point float is again possible. He did not mean to imply that oem parts, when in good condition, always caused point float, only that it is a possibility if things are not up to snuff, and modern points are more likely to not have this issue. Also, with less wear on the rubbing block, modern points may not need adjustment quite as often. This probably could have been worded better, but assumptions about peoples knowledge and ability to interpret the information may have been lacking. (Some people got it, some did not.)


The author went on to show a flaw in the modern points plate, making adjusting the gap difficult. He offered a solution for that in the form of adding the pin, which can be used as a pry point. It took him buying extra parts, and going through the process of installing the pin while taking pictures so as to make the process clear.


The author believes that the modern parts are better that the oem parts for these reasons. He does NOT believe that everyone is going to have problems if they use the OEM parts, simply that this is an option, and in his opinion a better way to go. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Certainly, it is not for everyone, and no one expects that.


It should also be noted that all articles for the Restorer are read and verified by a number of people, including the technical editor, and this article went through this editing process, and came out clean. The article was found to be factually correct in detail. The author receives no compensation for the time effort nor any expense he/she encounters in writing and submitting an article.


Based upon these findings, I believe many of the comments made in this forum's topic are unfounded, and not based upon fact. I would simply ask that people think, check, verify, and rethink before disparaging the author, the editing, and the magazine. Comments like the ones presented here can really hurt. I'd not blame this author or any others for not wanting to take the time and effort to contribute future articles, in good faith, with all the work involved, only to be bashed and maligned as was done here.


That last paragraph is just my opinion. Bash me if you like, but please also acknowledge that some of your comments may have been unfounded or wrong as well. Seriously, things at the Restorer are not as bad as some have made them to be...
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:45 AM   #63
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Thanks for the clarification! Well done!
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:21 PM   #64
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thanks for your opinion. We all have one
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:43 PM   #65
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Turns out that bronze phospher is used as the contact material on most relay applications, and is in fact a good material for this application, much cheaper than the other two metals, and therefore there is a good chance that Henry may have used it in his OEM parts. ...
I have no beef with either magazine I don't get either as distance makes it uneconomic for me to get them . However what does the above statement mean-Henry "might "have used bronze phospher -Based on what? that it was good -Based on that logic the A should have a V16 motor and hydraulic brakes because they were good as well. ????

Personally I use original points -I've played with moderns points and what I got was difficult to adjust accurately and fragile repo junk -I am currently running a NOS set and have done for the last 15,000 miles trouble free . If I break down (and it seems unlikely) I will install the spare NOS set I carry under the seat.

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Old 02-17-2018, 10:30 PM   #66
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>>I have no beef with either magazine I don't get either as distance makes it uneconomic for me to get them .

MAFCA now has a digital version for out-of-towners.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:51 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

In my humble opinion, both magazines are quite good. We all need to remember that they are for our entertainment and to increase our knowledge. However, they are edited by humans and humans do make booboos from time to time. Even the great New York Times lays an egg every so often. Read for enjoyment and if you see a booboo, then drop a line to the editor and let her/him know. Ernie
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