Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2021, 02:55 PM   #1
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City (Danbury CT)
Posts: 619
Default Banger posi traction

So down at Jersey shore it looked to me that some of the A’s looked like they have Posi traction .
How’s that accomplice (weld the gears)
Any one done this to a model A rear banjo . Looked to me some of those old model A’s hooked up pretty good with both wheels spinning in the sand .
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 03:43 PM   #2
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 1,485
Default Re: Banger posi traction

I think you need to change to a 9" rear end. Once that's done, there are multiple LSD options such as TrueTrac or Trac-Lok.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-13-2021, 04:59 PM   #3
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Here is my story about welding up the spider gears. When I moved to the Santa Cruz Mountains in the late 1970's, I met some people who were logging redwoods. They had actually stopped logging at that time but the old equipment was still there. They had a 10 wheel truck with mud tires that they used to haul logs up the steep muddy trails to the loading site. They had welded up the differentials solid in both rear driving axles. They did not have to worry about going around corners because it was so muddy that the tires would just slip. The truck was 1950 vintage or older. The front axle may have been driving too. I don't remember. The truck may have been WWII surplus.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 05:54 PM   #4
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 6,706
Default Re: Banger posi traction

I've welded up side gears, mostly for myself. I was only interested in going in a straight line. The whole car will argue trying to go around a corner. It was a bit of a relief when I could spring for a locker. You can feel it ratchet but they will corner.

I can't remember any limited slip type rear for a torque tube.

If a parking brake is adjusted just right, applying it judicially will send power to both wheels.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 06:29 PM   #5
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 4,395
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
So down at Jersey shore it looked to me that some of the A’s looked like they have Posi traction .
How’s that accomplice (weld the gears)
Any one done this to a model A rear banjo . Looked to me some of those old model A’s hooked up pretty good with both wheels spinning in the sand .
It is unlikely they had a Positraction in an "A" rear end but most likely had the rear end locked either with a spool or by various different methods.

A discussion is going on over on the Fordbarn early V8 forum now about locking "A" rear ends.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...4870&showall=1

As a side note, I drove a 32 roadster on the street with a locked rear end for many years and as long as you run normal street tires and get used to the slight chirping on corners, you will never know it is there.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 06:42 PM   #6
johnneilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 664
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
There have been in the past some positraction V8 differentials made by using plug in axles and a lunchbox.
https://www.offroadxtreme.com/news/w...-does-it-work/
These work pretty well, nut are a ton of work.

John
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.
johnneilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 08:05 PM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 10,404
Default Re: Banger posi traction

I probably have a set of welded differential (spider) gears that I used when we were dirt track racing Model-As. Let me know if you need a set.

.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WCH07_2.jpg (63.4 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg WCH07_3.jpg (55.2 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg Gilmore4.jpg (39.7 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06381r.JPG (200.2 KB, 52 views)
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 11:40 PM   #8
ThosD
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 26
Default Re: Banger posi traction

To OP Maybe the Jersey Boys were running differential spools in place of the spider gears: See H.A.M.B. thread:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...w-what.945845/
ThosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 12:20 AM   #9
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Banger posi traction

This is the best video I've found to explain a lunchbox locker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL0hPEOStGk
I've had one for about 10 years in the front of a 4wd. Every now and then it seems that everyone in the car will die a horrible screaming death when it doesn't unlock.
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 12:21 AM   #10
Dan McEachern
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 99
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Here is a spool I made for a V-8 banjo rear that uses Ford 9" Axles. Still have 1 or 2 on the shelf.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg spool.jpg (38.6 KB, 46 views)
Dan McEachern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 01:00 AM   #11
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,822
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Attached story about the poor man's posit-traction of the 1950's.

Tom Endy

https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...i-Traction.pdf
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 02:48 AM   #12
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Endy View Post
Attached story about the poor man's posit-traction of the 1950's.
Tom Endy
https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...i-Traction.pdf
>>differential gearing in a rear axle assembly was developed by some ingenious mind

The original differential was invented by Leonardo Da Vinci, but I don't think it had spider gears and stuff. His odometer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXF_IsqoM4
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 12:31 AM   #13
4bangerbob
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 14
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Yes, the spool that Dan made is typically what was used by all the dirt track sprit cars running Ford V8 rear end gears in the Hallibrand 201 center sections. The sprit cars drifted around every corner so having a conventional set up was not required and the differential was full time positraction.
4bangerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 01:14 AM   #14
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,173
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
There have been in the past some positraction V8 differentials made by using plug in axles and a lunchbox.
https://www.offroadxtreme.com/news/w...-does-it-work/
These work pretty well, nut are a ton of work.

John
Many years ago, when I first met an old 4e4 machinist. He explained how he made a ‘bullet proof’ rear end for old (model A) race cars. With axles that he machined to just be easily installed/and or removed.
He had just finished the last one he ever made. He said each unit took a ton of work and was expensive to make. I tried to ‘bribe’ him to do one more…. No dice !
Some guys, maybe dead by that time, had the ultimate durable non slip hot rod rear ends. He said… never made many such rear ends. Mainly for racers.
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 10:12 AM   #15
GeneBob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Denver Area
Posts: 183
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
Many years ago, when I first met an old 4e4 machinist. He explained how he made a ‘bullet proof’ rear end for old (model A) race cars. With axles that he machined to just be easily installed/and or removed.
He had just finished the last one he ever made. He said each unit took a ton of work and was expensive to make. I tried to ‘bribe’ him to do one more…. No dice !
Some guys, maybe dead by that time, had the ultimate durable non slip hot rod rear ends. He said… never made many such rear ends. Mainly for racers.
HardTimes,
I sure would like to see the "bulletproof" rear end that he made. Does he have drawings, pictures or descriptions? There are others sources to make parts for something that would be popular like this. Thank you. Gene
GeneBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 10:56 AM   #16
johnneilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 664
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneBob View Post
HardTimes,
I sure would like to see the "bulletproof" rear end that he made. Does he have drawings, pictures or descriptions? There are others sources to make parts for something that would be popular like this. Thank you. Gene
It is a ton of work
starting inside the diff, must bore gear and opposite side to fit late model side gears. this makes room for adding in Posi unit shown above in earlier post.

then housings modified for plug in axles, this usually entails changing brake assemblies also.

then axles made to fit for length and posi unit splines.

there is more room inside the V8 rearends width wise and stronger pinion.

currently I run a spool in the B'ville car, late model 28 spline shortened axles.

Easy to do with the right equipment, just not too many people have the eq.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l500.jpg (8.0 KB, 13 views)
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Last edited by johnneilson; 10-16-2021 at 11:01 AM. Reason: added pic
johnneilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 12:25 PM   #17
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Richard Scaldwell drives a JAP powered Edwardian car with a rear end that does not have a differential. He gets around just fine. Of course, most of the time he is drifting around the corners.

Here is an interview with him and after that a link to an article about him at The Old Motor.

In The Old Motor article there is a shot of the rear axle which is nothing more that a straight shaft with chain sprockets. Gear change is accomplished by dog clutches for the various chains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ks2e_pjasQ

https://theoldmotor.com/?p=136808
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

Last edited by nkaminar; 10-16-2021 at 12:45 PM.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 02:36 PM   #18
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 4,395
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Most people don't realize it but if you need a bullet proof, light as possible rear end, it is FAR cheaper to just get a sprint car or midget rear end and bolt it in. Can be had for either cross spring or torsion bars and either closed or open drive shaft. Only one brake to fiddle with also.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 06:17 PM   #19
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Banger posi traction

Gotta love that JAP. I've got a JAP lawnmower.
What helps is the narrow wheel track so there is less difference in wheel speed when cornering and the narrow tyres.
My cousin in Tasmania had a VW beach buggy with dual wheels on the back and wide racing slicks on the front with a welded diff. You could steer at low speed, but going faster on the beach the steering was non eventful. It was like a rocket.
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.