1929 double a won't start, help

[Danny Boy]

Can the distributor cap have a short and still spark?
That wire between the 2 plates, I noticed that is has a spot on the insulation thats lying flat on a pin set in the bottom plate. At that specific spot the insulation is embedded in rust, the insulation is fabric.

[emf]

In my mind, if you got a backfire, you have sufficient spark at the plugs. Sounds to me that the timing if off. Either the wires have been shifted in the distributor cap or the point cam has moved slightly. Re-check the timing at the distributor and you may have it...


Frank

[Danny Boy]

I just assemble everything back together and gave her a go and got a few pops out of her.

How can I post pictures?
Can anyone tell what the fitting is above the carburetor flange, its a compression fitting with a piece of pipe that's been pinched off, it screws in about 3 inches above the carburetor flange.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Morning...Sounds like a cut off vacuum line for the windshield Wipers. It might well be leaking and changing you mixture by letting in too much air...lean mixture. Best to remove it and put a proper plug in the manafold. The major suppliers have the plug, but if you take the one you take out to your hardware store...I'll bet they have a plug is the plumbing department...Ernie in Arizona

[katy]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

Out of stock localy, can't get a condenser here until next week.

You could temporarily wire in a different condenser at the distributor side of the coil after removing the condenser from the distributor.

[Danny Boy]

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NEW SYMPTOM
Fuel is spayed out the back of the carburetor towards the air filter???

I put everything back in its place and also redid the timing on the distributor.
I checked the compression on each piston from the spark plug hole and I get a good air push from all of them.

This time i got 2 pops that sounded like that sounded like they came from the front near the carburator intake.

The gas flows back towards the air filter? If I give it alot of gas and use the choke it actually sprays out around the choke plate when it's closed, alot.
I checked through the spark plug hole and the chamber is bone dry, all 4 of them.
??? Help

[katy]

It sounds like you may have sticking valve(s)

[jg61hawk]

Could be the exhaust valve(s) aren't closing....some guys have suggested in other posts to spray Marvel Mystery Oil into the carb while cranking it over to help sticky valves. Some sprayed into the cylinders may help. Did it sit for a long time? It looks like in your first post here the engine ran only several months ago....in that case I doubt the valves are sticky. I don't know how much room you have but a good push start attempt may help a lot of issues...could you get three guys to push you in first gear for a few blocks? And don't choke it like like a lawn mower, the choke gets held for a second or two while cranking then let it go...keep cranking they usually start right after that.

[Danny Boy]

She was parked inside for a few months (supposedly running fine)
Towed on a Flatbed for a 2 hour drive.
Was started at the garage it arrived at once by someone who had zero experience driving it.
What I was told is that it was hard to start and ran rough.
Was driven about 1km away and ran out of gas.
They pushed it the rest of the way (50 feet).
And hasent moved/started since, that was in April I believe.

Dude who drove it says it was running hot and rough.
I'm gonna speak with that guy tomorrow and get the full story from him directly.

They killed 2 full size 6v battery trying to start it.
And by what I could tell they gave it alot of choke and the fuel enrichment dial on the choke pull was set to 5 full rotations when I touched it the first time.

They probably flooded it over and over again every few days.
Could flooding it and then letting it dry over and over again have gunked up the valves and now they stuck? Does that make sense?

[Rob Doe]

Danny, I had trouble with my car that was very similar. It was new to me too. Although I knew a bit about A's from my youth, 50 years ago.

You probably have a cell phone; take pictures I believe the yellow box just above where you type your reply can be used to upload an image. I would transfer the images to my computer and log on there to upload and reply.

The suggestions given above are all good, but are not in particular order. There are reasons for this. Experience tells the guys on the forum to share known causes from personal experience first in hopes of solving your problem quickly. From the detail of your posts, I cannot discern whether you have correctly checked any of them. We don't know your skill set. Here are some questions I have after reading above:

What make of carb is "model X"? Take a picture. If Zenith, it has a round float bowl with the name embossed on it. A Tillotson or Marvel Shebler as I recall have a rectangular bowl and the float is hinged 90 degrees to the centerline of the car.

Is your distributor set up as stock or with modern upper plate with condenser on top and modern points? If modernized, a condenser and points can be purchased at NAPA. Otherwise, Model A vendors supply antique style parts. Take a picture with cap and body off.

Is the truck wired 6v positive ground? If so, a 12v coil is not a good idea, unless the primary circuit is 3 ohm or there is an internal or external (resistor???) to make it operate at ~ 3 ohm? A picture of the coil hookups would help. If the truck is wired as a Model AA then the red wire needs to be on the + connection and the wire should run to the keyed switch. The black wire should be on the - side and come from the yellow/black stripe wire in the terminal box.

"Timing looks good." Did you pull the timing pin and locate the dimple then place the distributor cam properly with the advance lever all the way up? A picture, with a straight down view of your distributor with the rotor and body on, cap off and timing pin in the dimple at the front lower right of the engine will reveal the accuracy of your efforts.

Danny, I'd like to suggest a test for fuel, but there is a lot to digest above. Give us some feed back on my questions. Others wiser than I may step in. Take your time. Don't give up.

[1crosscut]

Danny I may have missed it in an earlier post of yours but if you share where you are located there just might be one of us Barner's close enough to you to help.

[Danny Boy]

Thanks for the above info, it's late and I'm tired so I'll get back to you on most it with pics.

I'm in Quebec Canada Gatineau/Ottawa region.
Carb is a tillotson model x,
Looks exactly like this https://www.google.com/search?q=Ford...gfZ_oTQDg4:185

[Tom Wesenberg]

It ran in April, though briefly. Too bad, as when an engine first starts cold it makes a lot of condensation, and that can rust rings and valves. I learned this the hard way back in the 70's when I ran two of my antiques cars for only 10 minutes or less, then went to start them 6 months later. Both engines were stuck solid.

Best to never start a cold engine unless it runs for at least 30 minutes.

[Danny Boy]

Carb is a tillotson model x.
Old distributor, I think most of the car is actually stock and original.
I checked timing originally to make sure it was good before messing with the distributor.
I checked it by making sure piston 1 was at correct height (all the up basically).
I marked the location and re assembled as it was.
After I put everything back together I checked again and it looks spot on.
I don't have the crank so I'm gonna go buy a cheap 1 3/8" to make myself a wrench to turn the crank and make sure my timing is 100%.

I got some new info about the truck, it did start a few times after it was parked up to about 4~5 weeks ago it actually started but was hard to do.

He was told to start it spark lever Down all the way and Throtle down all the way.
1 to 5 turns on choke knob and just a little choke for 1 or 2 revolutions at a time.
He said it was hard to start and would flood most of the time, he confirms removing spark plugs to confirm it was soaked. He did this a bunch of times until the battery died, it would start sometimes and sometimes it was flooded to badly.
Second battery he had was new and he almost drained it trying to start the car, he got disappointed and brought car to garage for the leaky carb.
Mecanic had the starter rebuild with new windings.
And was trying to diagnose the carburetor when I got involved and asked to take a look. I when to see that Mecanic and told him what was happening and he said he had the same problem, carburator doing its job but in the wrong direction, no vaccum in fuel intake.

My timing might be off a little but even if it is Im close enough to get a reaction from the engine and I'm not getting anything besides starter cranks.

I gave the guy the key yesterday and watched him try to start it. The Carb has a tiny hole underside at the air intake, it's a factory hole and probably there to let fuel out in case of a leak or excessive fuel. The fuel was spraying out of the hole like a modern car injector, not a drop made it to the engine.

So what I'm getting from the engine is air coming out of the fuel intake instead of a vaccum.

I added last night a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil to each piston and I hit the starter to spread it all over, then I added another teaspoon and left it alone.

My plan is to buy a wrench to cut and weld back in appropriate shape so I can check the timing to make sure it's perfect and also take a good look inside the piston chambers to see what's moving and check if I've got a stuck valve somewhere.

When I check the compression by pulling the spark plugs and cranking the engine I got air pushing out but I didn't feel air getting sucked in. That's why I'm thinking stuck valve.

Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?

If your still reading this lol here's a little backstory.
Where 2 guys I'm 42 my partner is 50. We started a distillery and want that truck and as promotional.
It's a artisanal distillery and where distilling maple syrup . We have a prohibition era feel too our business and everything is very very traditional.
We want use the the truck for special events and branding, where even getting a label made with the Model AA and screen hand printed t shirts.
I've seen my partner with the truck and also the mecanic and others and to be honest I don't like it lol. I tried not to get involved but I couldn't let that truck be handled like that. So I wanna get her going so I can drive her home and do some needed work on it with TIME AND PATIENCE and actual good information about the truck instead of "some guy who knows cars said put that spark lever all the way down when driving and starting the car".
The truck is pictured on Wikipedia btw, we found it looking for info about the model aa at some point.
It's the first picture under Variants, the green model AA with a tall wood box frame, dude with the puffy hair next to the truck is the guy who sold it to us btw.

Carb is a tillotson model x.
Old distributor, I think most of the car is actually stock and original.
I checked timing originally to make sure it was good before messing with the distributor.
I checked it by making sure piston 1 was at correct height (all the up basically).
I marked the location and re assembled as it was.
After I put everything back together I checked again and it looks spot on.
I don't have the crank so I'm gonna go buy a cheap 1 3/8" to make myself a wrench to turn the crank and make sure my timing is 100%.

I got some new info about the truck, it did start a few times after it was parked up to about 4~5 weeks ago it actually started but was hard to do.

He was told to start it spark lever Down all the way and Throtle down all the way.
1 to 5 turns on choke knob and just a little choke for 1 or 2 revolutions at a time.
He said it was hard to start and would flood most of the time, he confirms removing spark plugs to confirm it was soaked. He did this a bunch of times until the battery died, it would start sometimes and sometimes it was flooded to badly.
Second battery he had was new and he almost drained it trying to start the car, he got disappointed and brought car to garage for the leaky carb.
Mecanic had the starter rebuild with new windings.
And was trying to diagnose the carburetor when I got involved and asked to take a look. I when to see that Mecanic and told him what was happening and he said he had the same problem, carburator doing its job but in the wrong direction, no vaccum in fuel intake.

My timing might be off a little but even if it is Im close enough to get a reaction from the engine and I'm not getting anything besides starter cranks.

I gave the guy the key yesterday and watched him try to start it. The Carb has a tiny hole underside at the air intake, it's a factory hole and probably there to let fuel out in case of a leak or excessive fuel. The fuel was spraying out of the hole like a modern car injector, not a drop made it to the engine.

So what I'm getting from the engine is air coming out of the fuel intake instead of a vaccum.

I added last night a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil to each piston and I hit the starter to spread it all over, then I added another teaspoon and left it alone.

My plan is to buy a wrench to cut and weld back in appropriate shape so I can check the timing to make sure it's perfect and also take a good look inside the piston chambers to see what's moving and check if I've got a stuck valve somewhere.

When I check the compression by pulling the spark plugs and cranking the engine I got air pushing out but I didn't feel air getting sucked in. That's why I'm thinking stuck valve.

Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?

If your still reading this lol here's a little backstory.
Where 2 guys I'm 42 my partner is 50. We started a distillery and want that truck and as promotional.
It's a artisanal distillery and where distilling maple syrup . We have a prohibition era feel too our business and everything is very very traditional.
We want use the the truck for special events and branding, where even getting a label made with the Model AA and screen hand printed t shirts.
I've seen my partner with the truck and also the mecanic and others and to be honest I don't like it lol. I tried not to get involved but I couldn't let that truck be handled like that. So I wanna get her going so I can drive her home and do some needed work on it with TIME AND PATIENCE and actual good information about the truck instead of "some guy who knows cars said put that spark lever all the way down when driving and starting the car".
The truck is pictured on Wikipedia btw, we found it looking for info about the model aa at some point.
It's the first picture under Variants, the green model AA with a tall wood box frame, dude with the puffy hair next to the truck driver door is the guy who sold it to us btw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_AA

More truck history, He rebuilt it for his dad in 2000 as promo for his dads landscaping business. Has been run 8000km since the rebuilt in 2000. Dad passed away a couple years ago and that why he put it up for sale.

Truck was also in a movie, French

We aren't planning on ever selling it,

More truck history, He rebuilt it for his dad in 2000 as promo for his dads landscaping business. Has been run 8000km since the rebuilt in 2000. Dad passed away a couple years ago and that why he put it up for sale.

Truck was also in a movie, French movie from Quebec "La Bolduc" in 2018

We aren't planning on ever selling it,

[Danny Boy]

Rob d'or, I'll check the wiring today and post back, thanks I was a little confused about that.

1crosscut, thanks, your right, look what I found https://www.canadascapitalas.com/

I'm gonna contact them for sure.

[Tom Wesenberg]

To start the spark lever should be all the way UP, not down, and the throttle lever should only be down a couple clicks.

It's easy to remove the side cover to see if all the valves are working, but a compression check is easier and should tell if they are all working.

[Rob Doe]

Danny, a couple thoughts:

The distributor rotor should be aimed at the right front headlight or close when the timing pin is in the dimple; it would aim at the light on a car, but the truck might be a little different.

The distributor rotor turns counter clockwise when the engine is running.

The distributor fires all 4 cylinders in one complete revolution and turns at 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft, so 2 revolutions of the crankshaft fire all 4 cylinders, one every 180 degrees.

You said that you checked for all the way up on the #1 piston. The piston will be all the way up twice in one firing cycle. You want the Top Dead Center, (TDC) that has compression. Put your thumb over the hole as previously mentioned by another forum member. I assume you used a small light and looked through the spark plug hole. On my car it is possible to see a small moon shaped slice of the top of the piston with a light, timing pin in the dimple.

I tell you these things because as a teenager I got my car out of time by incorrectly choosing the wrong contact pin in the distributor body. Many people have confused the Model A Owners Manual description and timed the engine 180 degrees out. The manual used the term ~ "opposite number one contact". The #1 pin in the distributor upper body is on the lower right if you are on the right side of the car with your head above the distributor.

[Danny Boy]

We pushed the car in 3rd to get the timing pin set.
I saw distributor go counter clockwise, thanks for that Rob. Wrong edge was set as timing.
So now on passenger side of car looking at distributor my brass tab edge is perfectly inline with the #1 piston pin and points are closing right at that moment.

Thanks for that.
I'm putting a fresh battery in and giving it a try again.

[nkaminar]

How to time the engine.

The distributor turns counter clockwise. The points should just start to OPEN when the timing is correct. Before starting make sure the points are set at 0.020 gap when the cam is at the maximum opening of the points.

Do this with the ignition off.

Unscrew the timing pin and turn it around so that the point is in the hole. Turn the engine over until the pin pops into the detent in the timing gear. If you miss and over turn the engine you can turn it back.

Remove the distributor rotor and housing and loosen the screw that holds the points cam from turning. Turn the cam so that the brass arm on the rotor is pointing to number one cylinder. If you need to, re install the rotor and housing to determine if the brass arm is pointed to the right plug, and then re remove them again.

Fully retard the spark lever (all the way up).

Rotate the cam slightly clockwise so that the points are closed. Rotate the cam counter clockwise so that the points are just opening. Tighten the screw.

Rotate the cam clockwise with your fingers until it stops and the points should be closed. A slight movement counter clockwise should just start to open the points. (An ohm meter can help but I usually just use my eyeball and feel with my fingers.) If the slight counter clockwise movement does not start to open the points, make a minor adjustment in the cam and try again. Usually you will have to turn the cam a little more counter clockwise.

Tighten the screw and put everything back together. Make sure the high tension wire from the coil is fully inserted in the coil and distributor cap.

Make sure you put the timing pin back properly.

[Bob C]

Check out this link to Marco's timing instructions.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140902...hop/timing.htm


"Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?"
You can post pictures from your computer, no need to use a hosting site.

"