'30 Tudor Refresh

[Will Kimble]

Here are a couple pics of my new tudor:





It is a solid old car, but the wiring is a mess. I have been right much a hotrodder in the past, but I intend to keep this car pretty close to stock. Perhaps a few performance-oriented modifications like most "touring" cars have.

In the past I have found it helpful to document progress in a thread, and it also seems to be good motivation for me. I will try to show in this thread what it takes to get this car roadworthy.

Not much has been done yet, except I have replaced all of the (incorrect) fuel line from the gas tank valve all the way to the carburetor. This all went smoothly, except for the stamped sheet metal nut on the sediment bowl - it just won't draw as tight as I would like. I saw a big jamb nut in the Sacramento Vintage Ford catalog for this purpose, and I will try to find one of these at my local hardware store tomorrow. Anybody else have trouble with these?

The car runs, but not well. I drove it up the street and back just to prove that I could. I think the distributor is set too retarded, as it needs more advance while driving with it all the way advanced and I can't get it to start with it all the way retarded. Gonna get out the Les Andrews book to read about that.

But the wiring is the real challenge - starter button and headlight switch in the dash rail, solenoid on the firewall, toggle switch where the foot starter button should be, and no key or functioning ammeter in the dash. Headlights are all wired from the dash rail switch even though the spider is still on the end of the horn rod. I am going to tear it all out and start from scratch, too scary to drive it like this anymore.

That's all for now, I will try to take some more pics as I straighten things out.

Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[Pilotdave]

Will, looks similar to our Tudor, though the body on yours looks to be in better shape. Please share pictures as you go!

[RonC]

Will, make a rewiring job a priority. Brattons has good wiring. Wherever you buy your wiring make sure the ends are soldered. don't forget to add a fuse off of your starter switch. You might also have to replace the cork float with a neoprene float while you have the dash apart. Nice find

[Richard Wilson]

Looks like a good tudor Will. Now you will have room for the whole family to go on your Model A tours. Good luck.

[Tom Endy]

Before you drive it too much, I would recommend you pull all four drums off and re-pack all the wheel bearings. You never know how much attention it was given over the years and you might find the bearings dry.

I recall a fellow club member a number of years ago bought a Model A in reasonable shape. A number of club members helped go through various things for the new owner, but they failed to look at the wheel bearings.

Sometime later on a Southern California tour we had just descended the Grapevine when the owner's wife was on the CB frantically telling everyone their right front wheel was on fire. When they reached the bottom of the hill smoke was pouring off the right front wheel. When we got the wheel and drum off, after it cooled down enough, we found the inner wheel bearing was welded to the spindle.

I thought we had a show stopper, but there were some really experienced Model A's on the tour. They used a hack saw and a chisle to get the wheel bearing off. Coming up with a hack saw and a chisle on a tour was impressive enough, but one member also had a spare set of used wheel bearings with him. Another member walked back to a gas station and came back with a wad of wheel bearing grease. In about an hour we were all back on the road. I was mighty impressed and have since carried a set of extra front wheel bearings.

Tom Endy

[HillbillyTim]

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Hey, I just saw this on Facebook! Nice car.

Tim

[bogdonj]

very nice car! Like Ron said, make the wiring first thing you do! can't wait to see more pictures!

[peters180a/170b]

Looks, like a car that was forsale at Hershey this past year???/

[Will Kimble]

Thanks for the input guys. Helpful advice RonC and Tom Endy, packing the wheel bearings is definitely on my list. I changed the diff oil today and couldn't believe what came out - more like black tar than oil! All fluids will get changed and everything will get greased before I go farther than a couple houses away.

Richard, I hope you are well and I hope to see you around one of these days.

peters180a/170b - this car was in Lexington, KY and was not advertised for sale. The guy I bought it from had owned it since 1968, and it has barely been driven (or maintained) in that time. Previous owner estimated 200 miles since '68. The engine serial # matches the title, so I assume it is the original engine. According to the numbers in the Jim Schild book it is from April of 1930. It has an early dash, so that seems to make sense to me. The title also says 26K miles, I don't know if that is true but the speedo works and I think it is unlikely the car has rolled over based on the general condition of the car, lack of pedal wear, etc. 82 year old car, so who knows?

Will

[Will Kimble]

I also wanted to add a little bit about my goals for this car. I have two small kids (Cole is 4 & Mary is 7) and we have a lot of fun driving the old cars - especially when Mom works weekends. I have a very small one-car garage, and the kid toys (bikes, scooters, wagon, etc.) are always going in & out.

Best scenario for me is a paint job & interior that are decent enough that I can live with them and that I won't get upset if the kids (or wife) scratch the paint, spill their milkshake, whatever. But I wanted a straight car with no rust to speak of, something I can make as nice as I want when the kids are a little older.

So cosmetics are secondary, but I want the car to be solid, safe and fun to drive. I got the solid part, next up is safe and later I will concentrate on fun to drive.

Will Kimble

[Pilotdave]

Excellent set of goals, Will. May I suggest that you look over the brake shoes and linings carefully when you check the wheel bearings? And check out the brake rods and linkages as well. I found some mighty strange brake rods under our Tudor - including one that had several bends in it....and sloppy clevises and pins. All have been changed with much better braking the result.

[Will Kimble]

Jackleg wiring to be removed, dig the barely visible toggle switch where the foot starter should go:



Jackleg wiring on the firewall side:



Pile of non-Model A junk after I was done:



A clean slate:



That was all I had time for today, hopefully the pieces to put it back together will start arriving soon.

Will

[1931 flamingo]

This is one for the "Farmer's Fixes" thread.
Paul in CT

[RonC]

Will, what is holding the steering column to the gas tank? Looks like the lower bracket piece is missing?

[Will Kimble]

Hey RonC, the steering column is attached correctly - just hard to see with all of the wiring and electrical tape. The generator is coming off tomorrow, then I can start slowly piecing things back together.

[Tom F OHIO]

Will, you start getting your boxes of parts that you ordered and it will be like Christmas time. HAVE FUN. Nice to see you have your kids involved. That's how
we did it too. Now he is 33 and him and his wife and 3 year old have a nice 29 coupe.

[TinCup]

That is going to be a peach.

[Will Kimble]

Changing fluids - tar out of the rearend, 8 quarts out of the engine, and a few drops out of the transmission...

Will

[real550A]

Great find, Will. Nice straight car to start with makes the job nothing but fun!

[gweilbaker]

A word of caution if you install a repro terminal box, the terminal heads are sometimes proud of the back of the box and can short in the firewall. I clearance the heads buy filing and insulate with a rigid thin bare PCB.

Nice car, I wouldn't sweat the paint for a while, the family takes a lot time.

GW

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Will,
Congrat's Iffin' I had your car, I'd just do up the wiring, make 'er safe, scrub her good, and drive her to ALL the shows and feel REAL PROUD! Money can't buy that kind of patina!
THAT IS A REAL LOW MILER, AS THE ADVANCE KNOTCHES AREN'T EVEN WORN!!
Do you know what color blue she is? Mine is the same and everybody tells me a different name! I think "VERMIN" is Lombard Blue. Avatar pic looks 'sorta green. (not green!) My Ghost calls it BAFFLIN' BLUE. If I can find the +*^$%@+"$@ Ghost, I'm 'gonna spray him Ford engine green so he can't sneak up on me!! Bill W.

[TinCup]

Careful with that steel two blade fan. They have been know to go thru the radiator and the top of the hood.

[Will Kimble]

Hey Tincup - thanks for the tip, and you would really be scared if you saw the fan in person! My water pump is shot, too, so I will replace the fan and the pump at the same time. I know it isn't original, but I feel good about driving with the plastic fan.

Bill Williamson - I am not sure of the original color, this blue is not original. But it looks like it was originally blue from the spots I can see inside the doors. Not Andalusite, more of a chalky medium blue. My understanding is Lombard was the only other blue at the time? Not sure what Lombard looks like, I should do a search on that.

GW - thanks for the tip on the terminal box, I am getting ready to install a repro and will look it over carefully. It is amazing how many ways you can screw up such a simple car by using bad repro parts!!!! This car has a lot of nice original parts that I am not used to seeing, and I am enjoying cleaning them up and reusing them.

I have most of my goodie boxes in hand and am picking up a couple more items tomorrow. Hopefully I will finish up the wiring this weekend and will have some new pics.

Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[al's28/33]

Congrats on new Tudor!!!......be patient and test fit all the new stuff first to make sure before that final cinch down. Read and re-read all the manuals, maybe a midnight sneak into the garage to test fit another, wait for a nice warm sunny day to prime and paint any parts. Please keep posting and we'll help out.

[BCCHOPIT]

That's a sweet look-in car a little TLC
And you will driving the wheels off if.
Stock or Hot Rod
Have fun with it

[Tom Wesenberg]

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If you don't want to use an original fan, Snyder's makes a nice aluminum fan that looks like the original and IMHO looks better than the 6 blade plastic fan.

[Pilotdave]

When I mounted a repro terminal block, the terminal bolts came through from the back of the block, each set into a hole in the block. I used a leather punch to stamp out round pieces of rubber inner tube that would fit into the holes on the back of the block. Simple to do and should insulate the bolts from the firewall forever.

[TinCup]

I have installed several of Snyders 2 blade fans and they are a great replacement.

[Vanspeed]

I agree with Tom and Tincup, I just bought one of the aluminum 2 blade fans and it is nice, well worth the money.

[Jim Huseby]

Hello Will- That color combination and layout on the body looks good on a tudor. BTW, about a year ago there was a thread on the "barn" about bluegrass and Model A's with several people active in both.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If you don't want to use an original fan, Snyder's makes a nice aluminum fan that looks like the original and IMHO looks better than the 6 blade plastic fan.

BUT----Plastic fans don't "EAT YOUR ELBOW OFF!" They just go, "Brrr--Brrr" Bill W.

[Will Kimble]

Bill Williamson has got me wondering - what color was my car originally?

I took a closer look at the options in the Schild book and it appears Lombard blue was not an option for tudors until September of '30 and this car is from April. The only blue at that time was Andalusite.

There is no welting around the gas tank, is that a sign that the gas tank came out at some point? The cockpit area of the gas tank should be the same as the main body color, right?

Was the inside of the body (floor, inner door panels, etc.) always painted black or should it be the main body color?

The next time it is sunny I will spend some time loooking around and sand a few strategic places to see what turns up.

Will

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Will Kimble

Bill Williamson has got me wondering - what color was my car originally?

Was the inside of the body (floor, inner door panels, etc.) always painted black or should it be the main body color?
Will

All the inside panels I have seen were body color

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Will Kimble

There is no welting around the gas tank, is that a sign that the gas tank came out at some point? The cockpit area of the gas tank should be the same as the main body color, right?
Will

yes and yes

Your car was painted with the doors and gas tank installed

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Will Kimble

I took a closer look at the options in the Schild book and it appears Lombard blue was not an option for tudors until September of '30 and this car is from April. The only blue at that time was Andalusite. Will

If your going to correctly restore the car you will need a copy of the Model A Judging Standards, the Model A Ford Paint & Finsih Guide 3rd Ed. and the Ford Service Bulletins. According to the paint guide your car could be painted Andalusite Blue, Lombard Blue, Kewanee Green, Copra Drab, Thorne Brown or Black.

[Will Kimble]

Thanks RonC, the inside of my car is all black and very original looking...

[Will Kimble]

Very sunny day here - it looks like the lower (inside) part of the gas tank still has the original paint, and it looks like Andalusite blue to me. The inner door panels look about the same. The inner panels that hold the rear window regulators look black to me, as does the floor.

[Will Kimble]

Got the wiring finished up today, here are a couple follow up pictures:





Some things you can't see - I took off the old muffler (in rusty chunks) and replaced it with an Aries, and I added a ground from the transmission to the ground strap bolt. Also replaced the distributor body, cap, condenser, rotor and adjusted the timing.

The car fired up instantly and runs really nice. I think I am still only about 75% on the carburetor and distributor, need to spend some time fine tuning them. But the car runs strong and starts easily, and will easily go faster than these rotting, out-of-round tires can handle.

I have always used an alternator in the past, but my friend Mac Van Pelt had some rebuilt Model A generators in his stash and I traded some trans parts for one of them. So far so good, gotta learn how to adjust the brushes.

I also got a NOS distributor body from Mac, maybe it was for a Model B because it pressed down on the spark arm when I first put it on. I filed that area down until it cleared and it fits great now.

I decided to separate the wiring into two steps - this took care of the engine stuff but I still have to do the light harness.

Next up is all of the coolant stuff - new water pump, fan and hoses. I still haven't settled on a fan, what are the pros and cons of the four blade fans like were used on Model Bs?

Thanks,
Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[1930ABONE]

Looks great Will!...I really like that color blue.

[columbiA]

Wiring looks good on engine now!If I were you,I would replace the cheap ign switch & cable & buy a good quality switch that looks like a pop-out,but doesnt *pop*.you can also buy the heavy armoured cable that looks original under the hood but has a terminal on the end for the switch.The cheap switches are known to cause trouble.I never use the cable clamp on cyl head as it makes it a PITA to remove dist & it could cause coolant to leak into cyls.As for the fan,use the new aluminum 2-blade.It looks original,cools well & you can remove WP much easierThe 4-blade wont cool any better.When installing fan,use a thin hard steel washer behind the nut or nut will work into the softer metal & become loose.

[John Kennedy]

Beautiful car!
I noticed in your pic above somebody hacked a hole in your dash for an extra switch. My '29 had the exact chewed-thru hole in the exact same place.

[Richard Wilson]

I think easily 50% of unrestored Model A's I have seen had extra holes drilled in the dash rail. It is an easy fix with a modern mig welder.

[Aerocraft]

I'd like to add my concern about the fan. I appears from the pictures that the fan could already be cracked. If it is cracked, simply don't run the engine again until you address the problem. There are a number of threads on what do do for a replacement. You have several options. Gar Williams

[Will Kimble]

OK, I am well overdue for an update. I have been busy, hard to remember all of the things I have done. Here are some pics I took today, you can see in this first one that I have replaced the sealed beam conversion with original type headlights. You can also see the new shocks and dogbones.



The new wheels and tires really changed the way the car looks... But that running board is rough!



Gotta have a nice spare.



Closeup of the B distributor that I sent to FS Ignitions, they rebuilt it with a new upper plate, springs and weights and now it has 28 degrees of advance. They did a great job, it works great and I love how it looks.



I also switched to a B carb, I am getting a lot of fine red dust out of the gas tank and am using an inline filter to keep it out of the carb. Works great until it fills up.



I am driving it a lot, next up is to replace the running boards and fine tune the brakes. Then hopefully just pick away at little stuff and wait until winter before tackling any big projects. Good plan as long as nothing major breaks.

Happy Motoring,
Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[1931 flamingo]

Nice to see another car with painted bumpers. Very nice car.
Paul in CT

[James Rogers]

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In a day or two you will have a new intake to go with the B carb.

[TK in LA]

I noticed that the light switch looks like it's upside down? Was there a problem with the switch? I'm running into a small problem with my switch when it is in the correct position.

[Will Kimble]

Hey James, got the new intake on today (A bored out for B carb) and it is a nice improvement - more than I expected. Much smoother everywhere, idles smoother and at a lower RPM, and pulls harder.

I had to remove the inline fuel filter as it was causing gas starvation issues.

Will