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Old 02-09-2021, 08:09 AM   #1
Veeder
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Default Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Any chance could anyone tell me if looking by looking at the slot in the end of the Cam if I can determine TDC within +- (xx) degrees?

Thks in advance
Bob
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:32 AM   #2
Mart
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

I'd say yes, but not to a degree of accuracy that would be helpful for timing.

I've shown it in some of my videos.

This one for example:

https://youtu.be/dn446jjCVRg#t=24m0s

Mart.

Last edited by Mart; 02-09-2021 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

What is ur end game? Ie, R u checking cam 4 correct orientation or u want to find top dead center & Mark 4 timing? R ur heads installed?
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Old 02-09-2021, 03:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Heads are installed I would like to just know if the slot is vertical ita fairly close to top dead center. I'll check out the utube a bit later thk u!!
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Old 02-09-2021, 05:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

It's at about 45 degrees.
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Old 02-09-2021, 06:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

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TDC is so easy to determine why not go ahead and mark the crank pulley and install a pointer? Comes in handy later on.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

I did what JSeery suggests. To ascertain TDC u really need to remove head & watch the piston to see highest point in stroke, use an indicator for accuracy. Then marked the pulley & made / matched the arrow pointer. I did it while heads were already off to replace Pistons.
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Last edited by AnthonyG; 02-11-2021 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Add pics
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Old 02-11-2021, 07:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Thks everyone all this inf. Is helpful as always!!!!
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

But, it is easy to do with the heads on.
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Hey guys
I wanted to answer Nomad as he asked a very good question "what is ur end game"

I was not 100% sure my brother and I would be successful therefore it might have been a bit premature to answer his question at the time. My brother (Seattle) me (CT) decided we could take a stab at designing a distributor tester which could verify point settings to establish both Dwell and Dwell angle on Flathead v8 distributor (It should also be-able to determine the advance mechanism is basically functioning and I believe we can without much effort as I can already tell in the graphs when the mechanical advance is adjusted.

SO about a mth ago he and I started learning about Stepper motors, Microcomputers, Micro-controllers and misc sensors to design something that could do some quick tests and assist in setting the points. Within the last couple of days we feel we have been successful. The design still needs some work but I now feel confident that when I set the points I can be certain they are in an acceptable range for establishing Dwell and Dwell angle.

The next question is WHY - Well I've lived through a whole bunch of issues (Drama)with the car and always getting towed home and I was always blaming the distributor/coil. Thanks to the help of folks like Skip Haney and others I got this behind me but don't ever want to go through it again. I also didn't want to spend a bunch of money of a timing fixture which I could not justify. Hence lets see what we can do. If we manage to get this to the next level the fixture should beable to be made on a 3D printer, stepper moter ,controller small power supple (optional 12 v battery would work) Audrino (micro-controller) you could build this for under $150 however its not quite ready to be what I'll call idiot proof. We don't need people burning up boards like I managed to LOL

My brother and I have come up with a design and software that at some point we will give it to folks as there is no intention to make any $$ on this but what we have now is a working prototype. I still may add a second sensor on the tester as a reference for TDC #1 on the distributor but working on setting the exact position was the reason for the post initially. I need to mark a distributor with exact TDC #1 so that if a ref. sensor is built in it is located exactly in the right place on the tester. Therefore in this situation I need a couple of marks on the dstributor itself vs the crank pulley.

We been able to generate some cool graphs of the timing and point activity.

"What is ur end game? Ie, R u checking cam 4 correct orientation or u want to find top dead center & Mark 4 timing? R ur heads installed?"

Anyways as always thanks for the help folks have given me on issues like this in the past and an fun winter project

bob
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
What is ur end game? Ie, R u checking cam 4 correct orientation or u want to find top dead center & Mark 4 timing? R ur heads installed?
Is it really easier for you to figure out shorthand to write a note? Well, it is not easier to read on this end. It doesn't really save any time in typing, and in fact, you have to stop and figure out your abbreviations yourself so it is counter productive to deviate from the norm. Not bitching, just trying to learn all this new jargon and the reasons behind it.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

I gotta agree with Lawson on this.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
I did what JSeery suggests. To ascertain TDC u really need to remove head & watch the piston to see highest point in stroke, use an indicator for accuracy. Then marked the pulley & made / matched the arrow pointer. I did it while heads were already off to replace Pistons.
Hi Anthony, I agree with what Lawson Cox has posted but I will have a bitch as well. As many of us old guys dont text much or at all, it would be appreciated if you could just type in normal plain English on this forum so that we can easily understand you. Buggering up the Queens English is not ok with me. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
i gotta agree with lawson on this.



x 2 ^


r
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Ok I understand
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:01 AM   #16
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Veeder, it does sound like a fun Winter project. I look forward to seeing the results of you and your brother's efforts.

I too would like to have an old distributor tester, but cannot justify the expense or the space to store such a device, but it would be fun to have one.
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Sounds like you are re inventing the Sun Machine.

On a related note, I have a friend who actually installed the distributor 180 degrees out without breaking anything. There apparently was enough wear in either or both the cam slot and the distributor tang to do this and of course the engine wouldn't run but it sure did backfire.
My added question to this is how do you account for wear/play in the distributor to cam slop in an engine that is all together?

Last edited by deuce_roadster; 02-16-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Wow it's best to think of this as similar to a churchhill machine however there is very little reason that this could not be similar to a Sun.
Still very early in the process but the data appears very precise and repeatable in all likelihood looking at the graphs you could red flag distributor lobe wear
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Old 02-16-2021, 02:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

Veeder's brother here: As regards our reinventing a Sun distributor test machine, that really hasn't been our goal. Our goal was/is to build a machine that allows us to do initial setup of a newly rebuilt distributor, for example. By this I mean setting the gaps of both sets of points and determining when the points open with respect to the top-dead-center (TDC) of cylinder 1 (compression stroke). Our system rotates very slowly (about 7 RPM) by intention so we cannot assess things like points floating at high rpm, things that a Sun machine is capable of doing. However, based on our preliminary results it seems we are able to set the point gaps accurately and verify static timing. Also, as a side benefit, we can assess the "health" of the distributor lobes. So, for instance, if one of the lobes happened to be flattened, for whatever reason, it would be immediately visible in our plots. Finally, we built our prototype system for less than $100 in parts and the time that Veeder and I spent on software development and construction of the test jig. All in all, it's been a fun project for us and if our work can benefit others we're happy to share our ideas. Lastly, there's the cost of a "real" Sun distributor testing machine ... ;-)
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Old 02-16-2021, 03:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Flathead V8 Distributor Slot in Cam shaft

here is a pic of the prototype for those that might like to see it. Yes more work is needed but consider this a cardboard working model.
20210216_135626c.jpg
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