Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2015, 09:46 PM   #1
Arcieri
Senior Member
 
Arcieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 155
Default Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Section 2 page 6 of the RG & JS discusses the position of the ground strap bolt in relation to the battery and cross member. The text reads "the bolt head was located on the battery side of the cross member".

The accompanying picture in the Standards appears to show the opposite. I did a search but couldn't find the answer.

Which way should it be for a judged car ?

Thanks,
Ray
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2-6--2.jpg (63.5 KB, 233 views)
Arcieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 10:58 PM   #2
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,480
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Bolt head faces the battery. That's how I view the picture.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-28-2015, 11:05 PM   #3
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

I agree with Tom the pic looks correct
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 11:08 PM   #4
DougVieyra
Senior Member
 
DougVieyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Eureka, California
Posts: 1,716
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Bolt head faces the battery. No question in that regard.
DougVieyra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 11:10 PM   #5
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 14,052
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Notice the orientation of the old and new design bolts. The "socket" wrench in on the nut and the open end is on the bolt head. Looks OK.
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 11:11 PM   #6
Bruce Adams
Senior Member
 
Bruce Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 1,596
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I'm with Mitch and Tom, looking at the combo wrench on the head and the ratchet on the nut. There is no sign of threads beyond the combo wrench. The bolts shown are also facing left which leans towards indicating that is how they are placed.
Bruce Adams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 11:40 PM   #7
Larry Jenkins
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: East Central Iowa
Posts: 1,275
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

I also think I see a lock washer under the bolt head..

Larry
__________________
Good enough.. Isn't.
Larry Jenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #8
Arcieri
Senior Member
 
Arcieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 155
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

I agree that the big picture shows the two bolt heads facing the battery, I guess I was looking more at the fine detail. Not sure where the standards committee pulled the diagram from, but it looks to me like the bolt head is facing the cross member in that diagram.

I think I can see a flat and lock washer facing the battery. I know I am being too anal, but just saying. Anyway, thanks for answering my question and I will face the head to the battery.

Ray
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (91.1 KB, 77 views)
Arcieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 01:05 AM   #9
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 14,052
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcieri View Post
I know I am being too anal, but just saying. Anyway, thanks for answering my question and I will face the head to the battery.

Ray
Nope, don't worry keep them questions coming!
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 02:20 AM   #10
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,480
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

I just looked up the bolt in my 1931 Parts Price List, and yes, it does list a lock washer and flat washer.



Another thread didn't pass the inspection of the one star general.
I think he's actually a drill sergeant masquerading as a one star general.

Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 12-29-2015 at 02:30 AM.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 11:01 AM   #11
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,904
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Upon close inspection I agree with Arcieri's description in post #8. The drawing definitely shows the socket half-cocked off the hex bolt head and on the outside a flat, then split washer followed by a hex nut.

This makes me wonder whether the change was made to facilitate faster assembly, as a hex can be engaged easier and with more orientations than a single pair of flats, or if the change was to replace a more expensive specialty fastener with a stock bolt. Perhaps both?

Notwithstanding the drawing, it goes in with the head on the outside for fine-point. That does not, of course, mean that every single one that went down the assembly line was put in the same way. I wonder how many original battery cases got dinged by backwards bolts infringing upon the free clearance.
__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 11:14 AM   #12
Jim Mason
Senior Member
 
Jim Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 841
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

The drawing is from the service bulletins
__________________
www.jmodela.coffeecup.com
Fwiw, jm.
Jim Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 11:29 AM   #13
31Tudor
Senior Member
 
31Tudor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 485
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Jim, to clarify this, Bolt, washer? (or not) battery strap, frame cross member, lockwasher, and nut?
31Tudor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 01:07 PM   #14
Joop
Senior Member
 
Joop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,606
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

If you can see in the picture it is explained how to install.


..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1368a.jpg (46.7 KB, 148 views)

Last edited by Joop; 12-29-2015 at 01:14 PM.
Joop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2016, 08:03 PM   #15
Arcieri
Senior Member
 
Arcieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 155
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Would like to revisit this one more time as I am getting ready to install the battery for a judged car.

We have established that the bolt head faces the battery per the RG&JS.

Now, how do the flat washer and lock nut figure in this installation??
The picture, which is from the service bulletins (which we mostly accept as fact) shows a flat washer and a lock washer on the battery side of the frame rail.
Is this what the judges accept as correct? Or is the picture incorrect in the
service bulletins?

Should the flat washer and lock washer be on the side of the frame rail opposite the battery behind the nut like we see on about 99% of the usual bolt-nut installations?

Thanks
Ray
Attached Images
File Type: jpg attachment[4].jpg (63.5 KB, 28 views)
Arcieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2016, 08:43 PM   #16
RonC
Senior Member
 
RonC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,868
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcieri View Post
Would like to revisit this one more time as I am getting ready to install the battery for a judged car.

We have established that the bolt head faces the battery per the RG&JS.

Now, how do the flat washer and lock nut figure in this installation??
The picture, which is from the service bulletins (which we mostly accept as fact) shows a flat washer and a lock washer on the battery side of the frame rail.
Is this what the judges accept as correct? Or is the picture incorrect in the
service bulletins?

Should the flat washer and lock washer be on the side of the frame rail opposite the battery behind the nut like we see on about 99% of the usual bolt-nut installations?

Thanks
Ray
Read Post 14. Battery, bolt head, lock washer, washer, ground strap, frame, nut.

Last edited by RonC; 04-15-2016 at 09:08 PM.
RonC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2016, 08:48 PM   #17
Arcieri
Senior Member
 
Arcieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 155
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Thanks Ron (and Joop) looks like I will install it that way. Just seemed different than what I was used to.

Ray
Arcieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2016, 09:07 PM   #18
RonC
Senior Member
 
RonC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,868
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly View Post
It seems to me that it would be good to include the ground strap in the sequence. More specifically, the ground strap appears to fit between the frame and the flat washer.
Yes I left that out
RonC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 11:58 AM   #19
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

"Maybe" the Judges will be too FAT to scoot under your car to check it????
I LOVE that wrench! Can they be bought in a SET? Do they "ratchet"? WHY is the Dog LAFFIN'????
Bill Odd
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 12:25 PM   #20
msmaron
Senior Member
 
msmaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wauconda, IL
Posts: 3,533
Send a message via AIM to msmaron
Default Re: Possible discrepancy in Judging Standards

Read post 14, makes it pretty clear and good. Take your time. What year is the car your getting ready for Fine Point?
__________________
Mark Maron
Ill., Region MARC & MAFCA
27A's, MARC JSC Member
2021 Oshkosh National Meet Chief Judge
National Facebook Admin.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MARC.group/

A7191-Sport Coupe
29 Roadster
29-Town Sedan
msmaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 PM.