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Old 01-24-2021, 12:21 PM   #1
Mike Mayer
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Default "help"

I am building a 8ba I install new rings and now I have to use a pipe wrench with a piece of pipe to turn the motor over. The rings are hastings . I am concerned . I don't believe the starter will turn it over."HELP"
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:37 PM   #2
Ross F-1
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Default Re: "help"

Was the block bored and/or honed before replacing the rings? Same size, or new pistons to suit a new size? All traces of the ridge removed?

With a fresh bore and new rings, there will be considerable friction.
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: "help"

Take it back apart. You have something seriously wrong. First 1by 1 loosen rod nuts each time try to turn engine. Be sure to have rubber tubing on rod bolts so as not to damage crank journals as you push pistons back out. Did you check ring gaps prior to installing rings on pistons. Pipe wrench to turn engine is bad damaging practice.

Last edited by KiWinUS; 01-24-2021 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:45 PM   #4
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0040 bore new pistons . That is a fresh bore .no ridge
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: "help"

The rope crank seals can make engine hard to turn. Was it tight prior to installing timing cover & oil pan.
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:03 PM   #6
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I know this sounds silly to ask BUT, did you use Plasti Guage to check all bearing clearances AND are the bearings the correct size for the journals? Is your your end ring gap correct? Did you over torque the bolts?

I ask this because I once installed the wrong size bearings on an OH valve engine. It would turn over easily but had zero oil pressure. Perhaps you have the reverse situation.
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: "help"

More info would help in assisting you. Did you only install new rings? Did you check the pistons and bearings clearances in the engine? What is the gap on the rings? Did you use plastic-gauge to check the main and rod bearing clearances? Here is a video on plastic gauge if you are not familiar. Ring gap, piston clearance and bearing clearances are needed to do a successful rebuild.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...RS%26ajf%3D100
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:58 PM   #8
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Everything checked out on the main bearings and rod bearings .I could turn the motor over with a breaker bar with 4 pistons installed ,but it was stiff . as I installed the rest of them it got really stiff. I remember in 1962 I had one that was tight . We just pulled the car till it loosened up. thank you all for your input. maybe Iam not as strong as I was in 1962.
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: "help"

Mike, It might be worthwhile to recheck the ring end gap, It's a pain to take it apart again but, may save you in the long run. It's too tight for a reason.
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: "help"

I'm no engine builder, but I'd be tearing it down to whatever point I had the crank spinning freely inside spec and move forward from there.

Assuming the crank was free before the pistons and rings went in, then it's either the rod journals, wrist pin, piston clearance, or rings. Right?
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: "help"

>>>I am building a 8ba>>>


Prolly the first thing I'd do is pull the plugs and pour a few ounces of MMO into each hole. Let it set for a day or so. Then try to turn it again. Then go from there. Jack E/NJ
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: "help"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ View Post
>>>I am building a 8ba>>>

Prolly the first thing I'd do is pull the plugs and pour a few ounces of MMO into each hole. Let it set for a day or so. Then try to turn it again. Then go from there. Jack E/NJ
I get you Jack E/NJ and that's certainly better than heads coming off as our next step, but I'd add a "very gently" qualifier to "try to turn it again."

If it takes the big wrench to spin the crank then forcing it around can't be a good idea. If you're leaning on the wrench then something in there is binding up. How much of that stuff (rings) do you trust leaning on?
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: "help"

Does the piston have 4 rings? If they do, I never use the 4th ring. You'd be surprised how much extra drag they cause.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: "help"

I had a problem sort like that with a SBF. It would start but after shutting it down would hardly turn it over with breaker bar. Torn it down and had 1 rod cap on backwards. New brg and good to go.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: "help"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Mayer View Post
I am building a 8ba I install new rings and now I have to use a pipe wrench with a piece of pipe to turn the motor over. The rings are hastings . I am concerned . I don't believe the starter will turn it over."HELP"
You have not said whether or not you have the heads and spark plugs installed, are they installed?
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: "help"

If you've only just fitted the heads and it hasn't run, you should be able to just pull them again and refit and reuse after.

I would tear it back down and carefully inspect all the rings, pistons, bearings etc.

Then during reassembly:
Does the crank spin freely with the main caps torqued up?
Do the pistons slide up and down the bores freely? (no rings).

Then double check the ring gaps and fit the rings to the pistons.

Then fit two piston, ring and rod assemblies to one throw. Does it still turn ok?
Fit the rest, one throw at a time, check for rotation after each pair go in.

Now, fit front cover and oil pan. Still ok?

There will be some frictional drag, and you should feel it increasing slightly after each step, but if after one step it increases dramatically, then you have a clue where to look.

I had one engine where the crank would lock as the mains were brought up to torque. It turns out the caps were not from that engine. Luckily it turned ok with some other caps fitted. I just changed the front and centre, the rear one was ok.

Mart.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: "help"

As we used to say in the initiation for the "International Order of Turtles" : "Take a drink and start over".
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: "help"

Do what 19Fordy said. I had a sbc that while putting in the pistons and after installing the last one couldn't turn the crank. Thought that was odd, so took that rod cap off and the set of new bearings on that rod was a .020 set in with all the other .010s. Checked all the rest and were fine. All the small boxes the bearings came in were marked .010.
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: "help"

You wrote as more pistons went in it became harder to turn. I have found Hastings piston ring sets at times are including the wrong expander for the three piece oil ring assembly. The expander is to long causing a huge amount of drag I'm not saying this is your problem but I have seen it many times.
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: "help"

When putting any engine together, after the crankshaft is in and seals and bearings are finished you MUST turn the crank several turns.
After that after installing each piston and torquing the rod bear you must turn it again, at least two complete turns if it seams ok. Do that after each piston and rod are installed.
Before putting the piston in you must oil the cylinder all the way down and put plenty of oil in the ring area.
Either put gear oil or assembly lube on the rod bearings, mains too.
I check each bearing clearance with plasti-gage before the final torque.
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