oil price.

[Lawrie]

I see the oil price went below zero today.
I might take the 33 over to the servo and see how much they will pay to fill it up.
Lawrie

[JSeery]

Oil prices Lawrie, not gas! LOL

[Hoop]

"Oil prices Lawrie, not gas! LOL" JSeery

( ... amazing.)

[rotorwrench]

I hope the oil producers didn't have too many outstanding high priced loans to kick their butt.

I figured with the US Fed tax at 18.4 cents per gallon and the Texas state tax at 20 cents per gallon that the price of gas would be 70.9 cents per gallon to get down close to the price I paid per gallon when I was kid. It averaged around 31.9 cents per gallon back then unless there was a gas war going on. I don't know what the tax was back then so I can't calculate for that but there couldn't have been much. My wife bought some yesterday for $1.109 per gallon so it's not far off.

[JSeery]

Lawrie, any idea what the taxes are in Australia? I have no idea on our state fuel taxes, but the pump price today was $1.13 for 89 octane.

[Cobra Joe]

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$1.63 here today, lowest i can remember in a L-O-N-G time.

When i started driving it was .59¢....

[51woodie]

Lawrie, are you talking liters or gallons? We sell gas by the liter in Canada, and it is currently $0.89 a liter. Convert (roughly) to US gallons, it translated to $3.57 per gallon in Canadian dollars.

[Lawrie]

In town the other day it was $1.05 per litre, thats about 3.50 per US gal.
I will get a better idea this morning.we are out to the butchers and will fill the 33 up then.
Our Gov takes about 60% of the cost in taxes of one sort or another.
I think by comparison its still cheaper than when I was an apprentice at GM.wages were 33 cents /hr, fuel was 33 cents IMP gal, so it took one hr work for a gal of fuel.
Kid across the street started a heavy equipment fitter apprenticeship at $16 per hr.
so way better off.
Lawrie

[JSeery]

And with the increase in mileage on new vehicles, fuel is actually much cheaper when you look at salaries and mileage. In my high school days my mileage was in the 10 to 15 mpg range, and that was on a good week! A heavy foot didn't help much. On the 30 and 40s cars the prices should be a good comparison.

[Ron Pilger]

51 Woodie, post 7, in Alberta regular gas is well under 60 cents per liter today.

[Joe Immler]

In Ohio (my town) it is $1.02. My grocery market offers fuel perks per dollar spent at the store. I was set up for $1.00 per gallon. So....I paid 2 cents a gallon !! I filled the car and 3 gas containers. Wish I had a large tank on a trailer or something. In an interview on the news today a politician said one thing we can be absolutely sure..the price of oil will go up.

[51woodie]

When I was a teenager riding a 175cc Honda, I used to gas up at night, as the price was a lot lower than during the day. Assuming the statute of limitations are in play, I should be okay to explain. In those days, the stations turned the power off to the pumps, closed up, and went home. The old style nozzles would still activate when you squeezed the lever, so I would make a circuit of a few pumps, lift the hose up, squeeze, and drain the remnant gas in the hose into the tank. This worked pretty good until my father was coming home late from shift, saw me, stopped, and asked what I was doing? I said "Nuthin!" That was the day I found out may father was still smarter and stronger than me. Always paid for my gas after that

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I hope the oil producers didn't have too many outstanding high priced loans to kick their butt.

I figured with the US Fed tax at 18.4 cents per gallon and the Texas state tax at 20 cents per gallon that the price of gas would be 70.9 cents per gallon to get down close to the price I paid per gallon when I was kid. It averaged around 31.9 cents per gallon back then unless there was a gas war going on. I don't know what the tax was back then so I can't calculate for that but there couldn't have been much. My wife bought some yesterday for $1.109 per gallon so it's not far off.

I remember the tax at $0.13 around 1950 G.M.

[Talkwrench]

As of today the cheapest around here Perth [Western Australia - most isolated city in the world] 83.7 c / liter . Its the cheapest its ever been ...and we cant go anywhere!!

[Aarongriffey]

I went from working in a gas station in 1956 in Wisconsin to the Army.
I got out in 1959 and went work in a gas station in St. Paul Minnesota in 1960 and the price was still 29.9 ($.29.9).
In ‘53 during gas price war I saw gas at 11 cents for the last part of a day.
By the way, do you know why there is always a .9 cents on the end of the price of gas in the U.S.? ..?.. it is a temporary tax to help the WW two effort.
There is NOTHING more permanent than a temporary tax.

[Lawrie]

99 cents a litre this arfo here.
Lawrie

[flatjack9]

97.9 here in Oshkosh and I get .10 off per gallon on my credit card.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

97.9 here in Oshkosh and I get .10 off per gallon on my credit card.

What's amazing is the fact that we have more refineries per square mile located here on the Houston Ship Channel and across the Gulf coast to New Orleans than in any other area of the country that I can see. Yet, while we certainly have never been able to complain much about gasoline prices, it just baffles me, with SOOooo much supply right here in our back yard, why you guys can get gas for 98 cents/gallon when ours in the Houston area averaged $1.60 yesterday afternoon. DD

[JSeery]

V8 there may be a lot of reasons, one is the state and local taxes added onto the fuel price. Another is different blends. Each state and even regions within a state, require different fuel blends.

[Kube]

.99¢ to $1.09 (US dollars) per gallon around here.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

What's amazing is the fact that we have more refineries per square mile located here on the Houston Ship Channel and across the Gulf coast to New Orleans than in any other area of the country that I can see. Yet, while we certainly have never been able to complain much about gasoline prices, it just baffles me, with SOOooo much supply right here in our back yard, why you guys can get gas for 98 cents/gallon when ours in the Houston area averaged $1.60 yesterday afternoon. DD

Short answer: Because they can.

[fordwife]

Here in WA state many stores post the cash price and then charge about .10c more if you use a card. Does anyone know why?

[flatford8]

If oil companies go under.....when demand goes up.....there won’t be enough production to meet the demand......so what do you think prices will be then???......Mark

[woodiewagon46]

It can be $.50 a gallon everywhere, but on Long Island it will still be over $3.00 a gallon.

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by fordwife

Here in WA state many stores post the cash price and then charge about .10c more if you use a card. Does anyone know why?

I believe they have to pay a fee to honor the card....Mark

[Kube]

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Originally Posted by fordwife

Here in WA state many stores post the cash price and then charge about .10c more if you use a card. Does anyone know why?

Actually, at least here in Wisconsin, it's illegal to charge more to use a credit card. One can offer a discount for cash, but can not increase the price for using a card.
Yes, many places do it, but it remains illegal.
Typically, a card costs the retailer accepting it about 2%. To me, it's part of the cost of doing business - just like heating the building, etc.
And, like heating the building, etc. the cost (about 2%) is added somewhere in to my sale prices.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by flatford8

If oil companies go under.....when demand goes up.....there won’t be enough production to meet the demand......so what do you think prices will be then???......Mark

Mark, are you serious or is this a serious case of sarcasm?

[Darrell S]

The biggest problem with these prices is that it puts US domestic companies out of business. Low prices may seem great but I don't want to go back to being dependent on middle east oil. If the middle east oil producers have no competition you bet their prices will rise. Not to mention all the US jobs lost.

[Tim Ayers]

It still hasn't dipped under $2.00 in Essex Co., NJ yet. I just paid $2.19 for regular. I was hoping for cheap high test gas. Not today. High test was still near $3.00

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Darrell S

The biggest problem with these prices is that it puts US domestic companies out of business. Low prices may seem great but I don't want to go back to being dependent on middle east oil. If the middle east oil producers have no competition you bet their prices will rise. Not to mention all the US jobs lost.

My gosh guys, you really need to study up a bit more prior to making comments. Did a couple of you guys realize that the US oil companies are in the top ten most profitable companies in HISTORY?
Did you know the US government GIVES billions per year for "exploration and research" to these companies?
If they go out of business, tough sh--. They have made enough profits to operate at zero profit for a long time is they so choose or, if they were smart enough to hold on to some of the funds.
I own a few small businesses that are all closed at this time. Guess what? I put away "money for a rainy day" just as Dad taught us and won't have an issue with them being closed for a long time.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

If oil companies go under.....when demand goes up.....there won’t be enough production to meet the demand......so what do you think prices will be then???......Mark

When I reflect on the gas crunch of the mid '70's, I recall that I didn't care what the price was per gallon of gas. My biggest fear was not being able to find where gasoline was even available...I had a long commute back then....

[flatford8]

No I don’t think oil companies are going out of business.....but with demand low...production goes down.....when demand goes up, if production doesn’t keep pace...prices will definitely go up....I only asked how far do you think they will go?.....we’re at about $1.65 as the lowest I’ve seen in southern Maine.......Mark

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Kube

My gosh guys, you really need to study up a bit more prior to making comments. Did a couple of you guys realize that the US oil companies are in the top ten most profitable companies in HISTORY?
Did you know the US government GIVES billions per year for "exploration and research" to these companies?
If they go out of business, tough sh--. They have made enough profits to operate at zero profit for a long time is they so choose or, if they were smart enough to hold on to some of the funds.
I own a few small businesses that are all closed at this time. Guess what? I put away "money for a rainy day" just as Dad taught us and won't have an issue with them being closed for a long time.

Mike, What a golden opportunity to become "Too Big To Fail"!

[5851a]

I feel no pain for the oil companies, ever notice the price of fuel at holidays or summer travel season. The price around here used to be 2 cents less for gasohol when it came out now it's between 40 and 50 cents less. One mention of a refinery problem or news of shortage will drive the prices up at the pump.

[ford38v8]

It’s called collusion and price fixing. But of course, those have been protected practices Ever since the breakup of Standard Oil 109 years ago.

[rbone]

$0.999 per gallon for 87 octane at Buccee's in Rockwall, TX today.

[RalphM]

$1.94 here, and there’s a refinery 10 miles away, not to mention the Alaska pipeline in my back yard!

[Lawrie]

Do you guys realise we are paying 99C per litre not a gallon , and we think thats good LOl
Lawrie

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Do you guys realise we are paying 99C per litre not a gallon , and we think thats good LOl
Lawrie

I'm at $2 a litre and it's still good!

[deuce lover]

$1.27 (@ current rate of exchange)a liter here in France.

[JT FORD]

In 1954 gas in the Omaha area was .25 a gallon at cut rate stations. Gas off the tank truck for farm use was right at .16c with out any taxes.

[V8COOPMAN]

So, we really need to study up a bit, hmmmm? Profits-Schmofits! Like everyone, I hate when the price rises at the pump. But a couple of you guys fail to realize that what are commonly referred-to as "oil company profits" is kind of a misnomer. You also have to realize that virtually all of the biggies like Exxon, Chevron, Conoco/Phillips, etc. are publicly-owned corporations. You also must remember that besides the "biggies", there are thousands upon thousands of small corporations, independents and even little guys working out of the back of a dually pick-up with a magnetic sign on the door that make-up this TOTAL oil industry in the U.S. of A. Fact....in 2015, 10.3 MILLION folks in the U.S. (98,200 in Wisconsin alone in 2014) earned a living in an oil-related job. That was 5.6% of the total U.S. workforce. Lots of folks dependent on the "oil patch" to eat! Oil and gas make-up 7.6% of our GDP. There's little hope for our country if circumstances cause one of these giants to go down the crapper...we'd BETTER give a sh..! There MUST be profit involved for the incentive necessary to make a huge industry viable, an industry (in this case) that we cannot reasonably live without. With the glut in oil now going-on because most are staying home and because the airplanes are parked, obscene numbers of oil patch folks have ALREADY been laid-off. You can bet that these folks give a sh..!


It's understandably difficult to find actual NET profit figures for the U.S. "oil" industry exclusively, because the way most of these companies are structured, they don't do oil and gasoline ONLY. One loose figure I found was a NET profit of $257B (illion) for oil and gas companies in U.S. and Canada/2014.


That's a bunch of profits, for sure, but some Mr. Exxon dude, nor some Mr. Chevron guy doesn't put that profit in that safe in the back room at the corporate office. That same CEO doesn't get to take that profit check and go buy a new Mercedes for his old lady. Those funds come out of his personal remuneration based on corporate profits...a whole different story there! Remember though, that the "biggies" are all publicly-owned corporations listed on the NYSE. And that's where the profits, or lack thereof, come in. Even though I hate it when that price goes up at the pump, I'm fortunate that when the profits proliferate, I get to share in a few dollars' worth of those profits because of common investments that a bunch of old dumb-ass goobers like myself have made over the years. In fact, I have been jokingly-heard to say something like …..."PLEASE let them big oil companies make huge profits". I've also been jokingly-heard to say...."PLEASE let them charge me more income tax"! Understand that either of those statements means that THIS Coopman MADE MORE MONEY! So, as much as we love to bitch about profiteering by large corporations, just remember that YOU folks....or any other American with half a brain like me has the opportunity to share in those profits. Ya just need to "study-up a bit" and understand how this great American economy (it'll be back when the "profit-takers" allow it) can really work FOR you! Profits ARE what makes our economy thrive. DD

[Darrell S]

Originally Posted by Kube

My gosh guys, you really need to study up a bit more prior to making comments. Did a couple of you guys realize that the US oil companies are in the top ten most profitable companies in HISTORY?
Did you know the US government GIVES billions per year for "exploration and research" to these companies?
If they go out of business, tough sh--. They have made enough profits to operate at zero profit for a long time is they so choose or, if they were smart enough to hold on to some of the funds.
I own a few small businesses that are all closed at this time. Guess what? I put away "money for a rainy day" just as Dad taught us and won't have an issue with them being closed for a long time.

I do know that the large oil companies are profitable. I'm glad they are. I put in lots of hours working in refineries as a steamfitter. Besides me there were iron worker/welders, carpenters, electricians, insulators, painters, laborers, machinists, truck drivers, mechanics, engineers and many more. Not to mention the spinoff to many suppliers and their employees. The wicked Standard Oil/Chevron paid my dads retirement for many years and after he died they continued to pay my mother plus her medical ins.

The federal gov. does not give the oil companies anything. The federal government makes no money, they only take it from people and companies that do make it. They money that the gov. lets the oil companies keep is not given to them, it was never the governments money to start with. And exploration/ research is not accomplished for free either.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Darrell S

I do know that the large oil companies are profitable. I'm glad they are. I put in lots of hours working in refineries as a steamfitter. Besides me there were iron worker/welders, carpenters, electricians, insulators, painters, laborers, machinists, truck drivers, mechanics, engineers and many more. Not to mention the spinoff to many suppliers and their employees. The wicked Standard Oil/Chevron paid my dads retirement for many years and after he died they continued to pay my mother plus her medical ins.

The federal gov. does not give the oil companies anything. The federal government makes no money, they only take it from people and companies that do make it. They money that the gov. lets the oil companies keep is not given to them, it was never the governments money to start with. And exploration/ research is not accomplished for free either.

Darrel, that was well said...Anacortes Wa is the dropping off point to our ferry serviced islands. It is surrounded by oil refineries light up like the 4th of July each evening..... But 2 hours ago I paid 3.69 for reg and 3.89 for diesel at my local pump.

[tubman]

Oh Boy! More political opinions. Off to the next thread I go.

[38bill]

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I saw a video clip on the news today of all the oil tankers waiting offshore to unload. looked like a parking lot.



FWIW: Today my wife saw gas in Brainerd MN going for $1.16 and 46.9 cents of that is tax.

[Gary in La.]

V8COOPMAN- Well Said. The majority of the public does not realize the number of other industries required to pump that oil out of the ground and the thousands of employees that are laid off when the production is shut down. We need that oil to be able to continue to run these old Fords.

[old Tom]

I noticed that motor oil has gone done in price also

[ford38v8]

CBD oil is cheaper too.

[JSeery]

Here you go.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Here you go.

[Jay in Mass]

Originally Posted by Cobra Joe

$1.63 here today, lowest i can remember in a L-O-N-G time.

When i started driving it was .59¢....

Joe
When I started driving in 1957 gas was .19 - 21 cents depending on where
where we bought it. Jay

[flatjack9]

Just put 22 gal in my truck for a little over $19.00. Get $.10 off on my credit card.

[Tinker]

Buy and drive if you can. Maybe put a few bucks in oil stocks down the road. When it opens up and it will, it'll be a deal.

[34billct]

Just bough home heating oil for 1.00$ less pr gal. than the last fill up. now 1.35

[Vics Stuff]

My state of Alaska is totally reliant on oil revenue. For the past 3 years as the price per drum dropped , so has the oil field employment in my state. Now that the oil companies are not producing as much oil due to the drop in price , the revenue needed to operate this state also has dropped dramatically causing a major recession . We are enjoying fuel in my town at $1.85 per gallon but actually hurting this state the same time.
Vic

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by Vics Stuff

My state of Alaska is totally reliant on oil revenue. For the past 3 years as the price per drum dropped , so has the oil field employment in my state. Now that the oil companies are not producing as much oil due to the drop in price , the revenue needed to operate this state also has dropped dramatically causing a major recession . We are enjoying fuel in my town at $1.85 per gallon but actually hurting this state the same time.
Vic

Yes and to make matters worse, tourism will be way down this summer due to the COVID 19. My daughter lives at North Pole, AK. We go up every summer but might not make it this year. Time will tell.

[aussie merc]

you have trouble explaining fuel prices TRY THIS i do roughly 120Ks round trip each work day so fuel price at one of the locals $1,05 per liter roughly halfway to work same branded outlet [the pommy one B*] same fuel $0,89 per liter and just around the corner from work $1,30 per liter supposedly same fuel yet 3 different prices on the same day between 11am and 12noon and it happens all the time they all claim that the oil company sets the price so whos ripping who ACCC where are you

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Buy and drive if you can. Maybe put a few bucks in oil stocks down the road. When it opens up and it will, it'll be a deal.

Private citizens pretty much cannot buy actual stock in crude oil. The best one can do is trade in oil futures, but you'll need to hold a minimum of $10,000 liquidity in your account to do that with most brokers and be prepared to break even or get wiped out should oil continue to stay low or go lower. The fear there is that as soon as global oil demand rises again, Russia and the Saudis will reinstate their price war to secure contracts and corner the market. This would keep oil prices low if not lower.

The second best thing one can do is a ton of research on companies' financial health and take a substantial risk buying stock in smaller oil exploration and mining companies whose stock has tanked and hope the companies survive long enough for their stocks to rise.

Neither of these two options will allow you to own actual stock in oil. You'll either own stock in speculating what oil will be worth in the future, or you will own stock in exploration/mining companies.

Investing in big oil corporations is a nonstarter since they aren't hurting much at the moment. For instance, Chevron was at about $90/share two weeks ago prior to oil diving below $0. Their stock decreased to $82/share the day oil crashed, and as of closing Friday, stock was back to about $88/share. Same pattern goes for Exxon, Philips 66, and the other major US corporations. There's no profit to be made there due to the oil crash.

As for oil ETFs, they are a ponzi scheme during volatility since they don't hold stock in actual crude oil but instead track futures indexes that are months behind what is currently happening. Those ETFs work pretty well when oil is stable, but when it's volatile they are junk since it takes months for their true value to show in the market. People buying ETFs now thinking they're going to cut a fat hog in four months will be shocked in four months when those ETFs finally catch up to the April crash and the ETF stock is worthless while oil prices might be much higher at the same time.

Trading in actual crude oil is a game only billionaires, millionaires, and corporations who have the capital and ability to store physical oil can play. The rest of us get to dream about how cool it would be to buy thousands of dollars of oil at $0.01/barrel, store it somewhere, sit on it for a couple years, and sell it at $60/barrel. In reality, the best we can do is buy a few 55 gallon drums of gas for $65/each, put them in our residential garage/shop for later use, and hope they don't blow up our house and cars or that the neighbor doesn't call the cops. We then wait until the price of refined oil decreases, buy out all our local parts stores of our preferred viscosity, and have enough oil for three lifetimes of oil changes. In either case, we'll be those weirdos standing outside a gas station in four years trying to sell quarts of oil and gallons of rotten gas at a discount out of the back of a 1949 F1 panel truck.

[Tinker]

Like anything, you speculate futures. It's a gamble. You can invest as an individual in commodities, futures, or oil expansion. Better to do as a fund (100k individuals with 100k investment, is 10 billion dollars) as you don't have to store the actual barrels, there will be a lag when reserves will come into play. US gov just took a big investment on private oil companies. Oil is a safe investment. So is walmart, mcdonalds, and amazon. Basic 10% stuff or not. Only a few get real rich.


In a year or 5 will we be driving cars around? Yep. It will go up.

[Cobra Joe]

Originally Posted by Annixter

Private citizens pretty much cannot buy actual stock in crude oil. The best one can do is trade in oil futures, but you'll need to hold a minimum of $10,000 liquidity in your account to do that with most brokers and be prepared to break even or get wiped out should oil continue to stay low or go lower. The fear there is that as soon as global oil demand rises again, Russia and the Saudis will reinstate their price war to secure contracts and corner the market. This would keep oil prices low if not lower.

The second best thing one can do is a ton of research on companies' financial health and take a substantial risk buying stock in smaller oil exploration and mining companies whose stock has tanked and hope the companies survive long enough for their stocks to rise.

Neither of these two options will allow you to own actual stock in oil. You'll either own stock in speculating what oil will be worth in the future, or you will own stock in exploration/mining companies.

Investing in big oil corporations is a nonstarter since they aren't hurting much at the moment. For instance, Chevron was at about $90/share two weeks ago prior to oil diving below $0. Their stock decreased to $82/share the day oil crashed, and as of closing Friday, stock was back to about $88/share. Same pattern goes for Exxon, Philips 66, and the other major US corporations. There's no profit to be made there due to the oil crash.

As for oil ETFs, they are a ponzi scheme during volatility since they don't hold stock in actual crude oil but instead track futures indexes that are months behind what is currently happening. Those ETFs work pretty well when oil is stable, but when it's volatile they are junk since it takes months for their true value to show in the market. People buying ETFs now thinking they're going to cut a fat hog in four months will be shocked in four months when those ETFs finally catch up to the April crash and the ETF stock is worthless while oil prices might be much higher at the same time.

Trading in actual crude oil is a game only billionaires, millionaires, and corporations who have the capital and ability to store physical oil can play. The rest of us get to dream about how cool it would be to buy thousands of dollars of oil at $0.01/barrel, store it somewhere, sit on it for a couple years, and sell it at $60/barrel. In reality, the best we can do is buy a few 55 gallon drums of gas for $65/each, put them in our residential garage/shop for later use, and hope they don't blow up our house and cars or that the neighbor doesn't call the cops. We then wait until the price of refined oil decreases, buy out all our local parts stores of our preferred viscosity, and have enough oil for three lifetimes of oil changes. In either case, we'll be those weirdos standing outside a gas station in four years trying to sell quarts of oil and gallons of rotten gas at a discount out of the back of a 1949 F1 panel truck.

Well said

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Like anything, you speculate futures. It's a gamble. You can invest as an individual in commodities. . . . Oil is a safe investment.

Again, 99% of us cannot invest in the actual commodity of oil as an individual or even as a group of people, and there is no practical way to invest in the oil industry at this very moment. If I as an individual could invest in actual oil as it trades in real time, I would have bought $10,000 worth of crude barrels at $0.01 two weeks ago. I would have sold today at $11/barrel and would be $11 million rich. Instead, I'm drinking a beer chatting on the Barn worrying about whether I'll have a business in four months. Crude oil is not like gold where you go buy an ounce worth of coins, put them in the safe, and sit on them.

Now, why is there no practical way for most people to capitalize on oil's low prices at this very moment?
1) ETFs are junk because they are invested in futures from months ago when oil was $30/barrel. No wise person would invest in a stock that tracks oil contracts promising to sell oil on May 15th for $30/barrel when oil is currently trading at $11/barrel. He'd lose all his investment on May 15th.

2) Futures are one of the most risky ways to invest. Only the bravest or most careless will venture into that territory right now with the worldwide recession digging in its claws and with oil demand unlikely to rise greatly in the near future.

3) Big oil companies' stock did not follow crude oil's crash. If one were to invest in oil companies today, he will likely be very disappointed in three months when quarterly earnings come in extremely low and the stock tanks due to the lack of sales right now.

4) As with futures contracts, investing in small oil exploration and mining companies right now is extremely risky. The very company one invests in has a great chance of declaring bankruptcy in the next year should the global recession continue or worsen, which the vast majority of analysts expect whether we like it or not.

As for oil being a safe investment, I beg to differ. It's one of the most volatile investments that depends on some wildly unpredictable variables such as global politics, war, gasoline/diesel demand, manufacturing demand, country oil production manipulation, country agreements, whether working from home becomes a popular, permanent option in companies, etc. Oil went from $20 to $-38 in one day and was back to $14 a week later. That's not safe; that's wild. You won't see financial advisers telling their clients five years away from retirement to "invest in oil, it's a safe investment."

Oil is a great investment to help diversify one's portfolio by adding risk, not safety, but not right now. Many analysts suggest investors wait until oil stabilizes at around $30/barrel and sits there for 6 - 12 months. At that point, it's as safe as investors are going to get to invest in oil ETFs. Once oil hits $50/barrel and sits there for 6 - 12 months allowing the ETFs indexes to catch up and stabilize, it's time to sell. The issue is that as of right now it might take years before we see stable oil prices at $30, so it's the waiting game before even being able to invest let alone turn a profit.

[tomcarman]

For us little fish in pond what does ETF mean? Never studied econoics.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

For us little fish in pond what does ETF mean? Never studied econoics.

They're "Exchange Traded Funds". DD

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

For us little fish in pond what does ETF mean? Never studied econoics.

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

They're "Exchange Traded Funds". DD

As V8Coopman said. Essentially, and this is very boiled down, ETFs function like mutual funds but trade like stocks.

Scenario Example:
You want to purchase stock in ten companies but only have $100 to invest. You have a couple common options:
Option 1) Buy shares in each different company.

• This can be an issue because most stocks don't sell partial shares; you must buy a full share. Your $100 will run out before you can buy shares in all ten companies. If you want to buy into heavy hitting companies like Tesla at $700/share, you can't even touch it with your $100 investment.
• Also, you might not have the time or confidence to manage 10 different stocks.

Option 2) Put your $100 into a mutual fund that holds stock in the ten companies you want. A mutual fund is like a group of people pooling their money, giving the sum to one person as a manager, and that person goes and buys shares in the ten companies. This way, you can own partial shares of a stock. Example: if PPG costs $100/share and 25% of the mutual fund's portfolio is invested in PPG, your $100 investment in the mutual fund means you own $25 in PPG. You wouldn't be able to buy just 1/4 of a share on your own, but you can in a mutual fund.

• Here's the issue with mutual funds. They are very slow to trade by nature since they are complex and managed by another company versus you. If you yourself own 1 share of PPG that you bought at $100 and the stock jumps up to $150 in a matter of minutes, you can immediately sell your share in real time to make your $50 profit. With mutual funds, if you watch the mutual fund price go from $100/share up to $150, the best you can do is put a sell order in and wait. That order will likely be filled hours later. Maybe the stock has fallen back to $100 by that time. You wont' know until the next day since most mutual fund orders don't update until the following day. Essentially, mutual funds are great for long-term investments, but they aren't great for immediate trading--certainly not for volatile investments like oil.

Back to ETFs. An ETF functions like a mutual fund in that you pool your money with other people to buy shares in multiple companies or futures contracts, but the ETF trades like a stock. If you buy one share of an ETF at $100/share, watch that stock's value rise to $150 in a couple hours, you can immediately sell that share. ETFs are cool in this way. Before the crash, I had stock in a lumber and a mining ETF that each owned shares of about 80 companies. Owning individual stock in 160 companies is way too much for me to keep track of since I have a job and trade in the morning and on my lunch break, so I let the ETF manager manage things for me.

The issue with crude oil ETFs is that they do not invest in physical barrels of oil. They invest in what are called "futures contracts." Essentially, when you invest in an oil ETF, you are investing in a bunch of contracts signed months ago that are now, basically, worthless. You might as well burn your money--or send it to me.

[Darrell S]

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Annixter, thanks for the understandable explanations for a novice like me.

[Tinker]

Thanks Annixter. How ever we got to this, it is great information you added.

[tomcarman]

Annixter. I'd like to thank you for explaining in laymans terms how this works. Despite yearly meetings with 401K advisors none have ever offered up a detailed explanation of how this complex gambling game works. Perhaps because knowledge is power? So a simple question. I invest $100 in a mutual fund, price goes up to $150. 401K Mutual Fund manager sells for me at a $50 profit (assuming no drop in price between sell order and actual sale). 401K guy gets a cut for managing. I profit the remainder. Am I taxed on the profit and if so how much? What is the typical cut a 401K manager gets and how much tax? Out of that $50 profit how much ends up in my Ford account?

[Tinker]

Most funds just charge a yearly management fee. 100$ or less. Having an advisor that you trust is worth it. Yes you have to claim dividend profit if traded, the forms will come in the mail. loss is another thing. Pay to play. Only way you get hit hard is by pulling it out too early, tax wise.