Radiator decision?

[1929]

Do I purchase the Berg 3-row flat tube core with 10 louvered fin per inch, high efficiency radiator for $725? (they don't accept credit card charge). or go with the Snyders Heavy duty 8 fins per inch 95 tubes for $585 ? and there is also Brassworks for $600. I will not boil out the very old radiator after spending over $6500 for a rebuilt engine.

[Fred K-OR]

I purchased a rebuilt radiator from Bert's in Denver. Steve at Bert's guaranteed it to never go over 180 degrees. It was a more heavy duty one and so far it has not had any problem with heating up. I have over 1500 miles on it so far. Just another option if you want to consider.

[Tom Endy]

What a number of us here in Southern California have done is take an original radiator to a radiator shop and have them install a four-row radiator core in the original tanks. It does help if the radiator shop speaks Model A, due to the need to have it assembled correctly to fit the car and the radiator shell, and also to install the baffle. The cost is about $500.

Tom Endy

[Mitch//pa]

your a smart dude taking care of this for your NEW engine. i have seen it over and over new mill & old restricted radiator...
my advice is to buy the bergs

[CarlG]

I have the Berg's radiator and couldn't be more pleased with it.

[barkleydave]

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Just installed a Berg SO FAR GREAT!!!!!

[C26Pinelake]

I bought from Snyders and was very pleased. It fit perfect with no holes yo enlarge and no modifying it to fit. You can't go wrong with Snyders! Wayne

[31a]

I have used 3 Brassworks radiators in the hot part of south central Texas for several years with no problems or modifications Bob

[Henry1953]

Glad to hear good things about the Brassworks from 31A since I just ordered a Brassworks heavy duty for my coupe last night.

[Jordan]

Use to have a brassworks as well. It worked well and never overheated. It was the 10 fin pressurized radiator.

I now have a modern VT core in my car also pressurized and it runs 160* all summer. Breastworks ran about 180*.

[mshmodela]

Having spent $6500 on an engine, I'd buy the best new radiator.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'm still letting $6500 sink in. Seems every time I see the price for a rebuilt engine, it has taken quite a jump. Anyway, I like Berg's radiator. I had a hood rod bracket problem with the Brassworks radiator for the AA I worked on, plus the metal was much lighter than an original.

[1929]

So far the vote has it at: Bergs-4 Brassworks-3 Synders-1 Bergs total: $775 with shipping.

[Goldhardt]

A friend and I both got one from Brassworks about 2 years ago. We had no problems or modifications putting them in and both of them have worked great!

[whirnot]

Originally Posted by fred k-or

i purchased a rebuilt radiator from bert's in denver. Steve at bert's guaranteed it to never go over 180 degrees. It was a more heavy duty one and so far it has not had any problem with heating up. I have over 1500 miles on it so far. Just another option if you want to consider.

x2! :d

[1929]

To all who said they have a Bergs or Brassworks radiator, are your radiators Pressurized??? is it better to have the pressurized?

[Wello]

Another Bert's recore with original tanks here! Wonderful radiator. Fit perfect. Great service. I will never buy a radiator anywhere else.

Dan

[Tom Wesenberg]

No. I see no reason to pressurize.
The head gasket can leak easy enough without helping it by adding pressure.

[Dick So. Cal.]

Both my cars have Brassworks in them. Never had any problems. Both have 160 deg thermostats too. 10 fins /inch

Dick

[Goldhardt]

Originally Posted by 1929

To all who said they have a Bergs or Brassworks radiator, are your radiators Pressurized??? is it better to have the pressurized?

No, neither one of our Brassworks are pressurized.

[mngreen]

Put in a new 10-fin/in non-pressurized Brassworks radiator 4 months ago.

Works great and very cool running; no thermostat on my OHV Cragar B engine.

Only hitch was fitting my repop thermo-quail cap; had to loosened up all mounting screws on the radiator cowl, fit the cap, then tightened up the screws, done! No regrets, money well spent!

[1929]

How about a Thermostat? is that better ? since I decided not to pressurize due to the response here.

[larrys40]

I would go with the bergs radiator
I know Gery and he makes a fine unit
It will definitely cool well for you .
I know it is more but then like tires , you get what you pay for.
You won't be sorry
Larry Shepard

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yes, thermostats are a good idea because they bring the engine up to proper temp, and bring it up quicker than without a stat.

[Speedster]

Bttt

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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??????????


Do you have a question(s)?

[copgib]

I bought a Bergs Radiator for my 1930 Model A and I am very pleased with it and would recommend them to anyone. Hugh

[37 Coupe]

Received my Berg's radiator last week.It is beautiful and it was so well packed.I will not know until spring how good it is but if it is half as good as it looks it will be great. A little bit different situation for me,not a new engine but a pretty good low mileage original one.I am worrying more about messing up the new radiator than the guys worrying about a new engine,going to install an upper hose temporary filter before I crank engine over.

[bigd1101]

On the pressurized radiator. I just got my pressurized Brassworks radiator with the overflow tank. One poster mentioned the head gasket and pressure. The cap is a 4 lb cap. Is this a concern? I wanted a closed system for a few reasons but didn't think about the head gasket leaking possibility. I won't find out anyway until Spring. We just got a foot of snow last night and it's only mid Nov.





Don

[Dick M]

I installed Bert's 4 row radiator last fall. I have made two long tours with it. One tour was to the mountains in Quincy, CA and the other was to the MAFCA national convention in Sparks, NV. Both of the tours went above 6500 feet elevations. The trip to Sparks had 95+ degree weather every day. We went over a 7500 foot pass to get to Tahoe for a boat ride. The last ten miles over the pass was completed using second gear/overdrive.

I put over 600 miles on the A to Quincy and over 800 miles on the A to Sparks. My car never went over 180 degrees.

I love this radiator.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Am not sure what the advantages of pressurized are.


My opinion - pressurized does not cool better, but raises the boiling point of the coolant before boiling, especially if running antifreeze. Means the motor can run hotter than originally designed. Something to consider.


There are may strings on this subject if you search, lots of good info/opinions.


Other opinions may vary.

[john in illinois]

Never any problems with Berts heavy duty recore.

John

[Mike V. Florida]

I have a bergs and I'm very happy with it.

[GRutter]

What do the Berts, Snyders, and Brassworks radiators look like, compared to an original 30-31 radiator?
I love the dimpled look of the fins on an original.

[Brian in Wheeling]

Bergs for me. In my Tudor now for about 5 years...just great. Gery is a nice guy to deal with. Keep your cool!

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by GRutter

What do the Berts, Snyders, and Brassworks radiators look like, compared to an original 30-31 radiator?
I love the dimpled look of the fins on an original.

If concerned about originality/judging I believe some Brassworks radiators are built using Ford Model A original drawings.


In addition to feedback from the Barn, perhaps look on each manufacturer's website and look, then call the ones you are interested in for additional info.

[Synchro909]

I put in a Brassworks radiator a while ago and it was no better than the one it replaced. Very disappointed.

[Davew]

Had heating problems with old radiator. Put on a Bergs. Dropped water temps 50 degrees. No issues with fit..I'd buy another.

[midgetracer]

pressurized system and my leakless water pump started leaking. I had to put in new seals and dump the pressurized ideas.

[apbright]

I've had several radiator woes:

- Leakage from top tank (Original radiator)
- Leakage from bottom tank (Repo, bought from Snyder's, but would swear was built by Brassworks, as looked identical to another unit bought from the latter - Snyder's were very good about this - got me a replacement, no quibble, no fuss, in about 1 1/2 weeks)
- Overheating in >100ºF weather on long, uphill drives, resulting in boil-over
- Coolant seepage at high speed out of Quail radiator cap, onto windshield, into hair (what remains of it); this has happened to me a lot
- Tube blockage by engine block rust (my own darn fault really, for not adding enough rust preventer into radiator water), again resulting in both overheating, coolant seepage, and large-volume coolant loss


The frequency of coolant seepage and loss has driven me to try a pressurised radiator. I have ordered one, but have yet to install it (it was accidentally sent to Finland - another story). Time will tell if this a wise investment.

The thin metal of which the Brassworks radiator is constructed (compared to an original, as mentioned by another on this thread), while not yet proven to be problematic outright, leaves me disappointed. I have since had my roadster's original radiator re-cored by a kind, experienced chap in Freemont, CA; he also added an overflow tank for me. I have not yet used it in anger, but will be doing so in the upcoming weeks. For me, the lesson was to not underestimate how good of a result a proper radiator restorer can achieve from even the most hopeless-looking original radiator. I suspect that is why many are happy with restorations of original radiators from Bert's of Colorado.

I have not ever used a Berg's radiator, but from the photographs visible on that company's page, suspect that their radiators' construction could be closer to that of originals', and thus good quality items.

So, yes, quite a bit of money invested in just the dern radiator, but these cars are how I get around on a daily basis in the SF Bay Area. So far, my maintenance bill doesn't exceed my wife's modern Mercedes, so HA!

[30 Closed Cab PU]

apbright - Since you have run without rust inhibitor, you could inspect head/block for rust/scale by removing water pump, upper head coolant gooseneck, lower hose neck, and inspect the water jackets. Perhaps crudded up due to no rust inhibitor by you and previous owners? Might be why you still have issues even with a new radiator.


Definitely run an upper hose coolant filter, don't want to ruin/plug up a new radiator


Running over 100 degrees and up long hills, may need a heavier duty radiator, like the bergs or a 4 row core.


There was a string, currently can not find it, on how to seal up a Quail cap so it will not leak. Perhaps others can help, or you can search/find it.


Good luck

[eagle]

I have a repop quail and it does not leak. I have a good rubber seal on it, other than that its right out of the box. Got it from Mac's about 6 or 7 years ago.

[apbright]

@30 Closed Cab PU: a) The block was no doubt a Carlsbad Cavern of FeO2 when I opened it up for a valve job a month ago. I would say there were open enough to allow good fluid flow, but I do wish there were a way to etch & clean out the remaining crud without leaving behind enough acid to reduce the rest of the block to dust. b) re: Quail cap, I found that adding Permetex silicone adhesive the entire gasket stack solved, temporarily, the seepage problem. However, I do think that it has caused the upper gasket (between the Quail and the lower-body of the radiator cap) to shear into two pieces, resulting in me adding another layer of Permetex adhesive, and the story continues...

I'll state again that I am a complete automotive novice. I am three-decade veteran of audio and acoustics engineering, with lots of education in theoretical systems dynamics modelling and signal processing, but before I bought my first model A in 2012, your dog likely knew more about pistons and oil than I. All my automotive education (Model A or otherwise) comes from reading Model A books and magazines, reading this forum, and trial and error (emphasis on error) on my two Model A's. Sometimes I swear I can hear cacophonous laughter from ghosts of passed-on senior Model A'ers as I fumble like an orangutan on my car's bolts. If all I do is entertain them, it will have been worth it.

[Fred K-OR]

Wow, I thought I was the only one that knew nothing! Don't feel so bad now.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by apbright

@30 Closed Cab PU: a) The block was no doubt a Carlsbad Cavern of FeO2 when I opened it up for a valve job a month ago. I would say there were open enough to allow good fluid flow, but I do wish there were a way to etch & clean out the remaining crud without leaving behind enough acid to reduce the rest of the block to dust. b) re: Quail cap, I found that adding Permetex silicone adhesive the entire gasket stack solved, temporarily, the seepage problem. However, I do think that it has caused the upper gasket (between the Quail and the lower-body of the radiator cap) to shear into two pieces, resulting in me adding another layer of Permetex adhesive, and the story continues...

I'll state again that I am a complete automotive novice. I am three-decade veteran of audio and acoustics engineering, with lots of education in theoretical systems dynamics modelling and signal processing, but before I bought my first model A in 2012, your dog likely knew more about pistons and oil than I. All my automotive education (Model A or otherwise) comes from reading Model A books and magazines, reading this forum, and trial and error (emphasis on error) on my two Model A's. Sometimes I swear I can hear cacophonous laughter from ghosts of passed-on senior Model A'ers as I fumble like an orangutan on my car's bolts. If all I do is entertain them, it will have been worth it.

I am not really much better, but have been through some things with my A too, have learned from others here on the Barn. Am still dealing with cooling issues, hope to solve next year by installing a bergs radiator. Existing is a 2 row that is not up to the task. Also this year had to pay to have replaced a blown head gasket and valve job. Also did lots of flushing/back flushing with white vinegar/baking soda treatments and thermocure treatments to finally get the block/head cleaned out. Now it has an engine knock, so is at a restoration/repair place due to my mechanical limitations.


Point is, I was making suggestions based on what I have read and experienced, hoping some of it would be useful. I definitely am not a master A mechanic with 50 years of experience.

[ericr]

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there were posts several weeks ago complaining about Brassworks radiators, is everything Camelot with them since then?

[apbright]

@ericr: My own take, from my own small mind, is that that would probably be taking it too far. There is another thread currently running discussing usage of Brassworks' pressurised radiators, and one chap mentions he has had ~90k mi good experience with one. I had a conversation with a Brassworks sales rep. while in the midst of deciding on purchasing their pressurised radiator, and felt I got good, BS-free advice. I think they're making an honset effort at delivering a range of good quality products at reasonable prices. For folks driving only occasionally and wanting a simple, clean radiator solution, I'd guess a stock-design Brassworks would work for a lifetime. But, if you have a problem with one, as I did, they'll behind their product, and help you out (as they did me, even with Snyder's as an intermediary). For the more intense (insane?) of us, maybe a Berg's, re-cored original, or pressured Brassworks is right. My experience in high-volume manufacturing (100's of millions of units per year) is that the answer of how one design compares to another only becomes clear to all after massive studies over millions of units over many months or years - something my one-off experience is a long way from providing.

And, anyway, folks looking to scam for quick big bucks are more likely hacking Bitcoins.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Andrew



https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255087

[Chris Haynes]

After flushing my system a couple of times when I installed my new radiator I filled my cooling system with RUST 911. I also put a piece of pantyhose around the outlet neck inside the upper hose. I drove the car a few miles and let it sit overnight. Draining it it the next day the water was black bot chunks of anything in the pantyhose. A rinse then refill with RUST 911 and repeat the procedure. This time the water was grey. After the third time the water was clear and the metal inside my system was spotlessly clean. Being as I now have a closed system I run waterless coolant. No water, no rust. Even when driving in a parade on the 4th of July my temperature gauge stays in mid range.

[quickchange]

No talk of the alloy ones here ? at 1/4 the price of original type ones maybe ok for a driver, Does anyone sell them that fits 30-31 ones , I know of a local that purchased one for a 28-29 & ended up with freight etc under 1/4 the price of a recore , very happy , fitted ok & a coat of black paint , looks ok, summer time in NZ.

[PeterBo]

I have recently installed a Brassworks open pressure radiator in my 1929 Phaeton. Bought it from Bert's in Denver (and transported it as personal luggage to Australia). No installation problems BUT cleaned block thoroughly before installing and installed a temperature gauge at the same time. Highly recommend it.

Our summers are HOT. So far no issues and running between 160 - 170 degrees even on long trips with hot days. Very happy.

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by quickchange

No talk of the alloy ones here ? at 1/4 the price of original type ones maybe ok for a driver, Does anyone sell them that fits 30-31 ones , I know of a local that purchased one for a 28-29 & ended up with freight etc under 1/4 the price of a recore , very happy , fitted ok & a coat of black paint , looks ok, summer time in NZ.

I've asked about the alloy ones in the past.
From peoples reactions they work but need some fitting. I think i saw 30-31's for sale in china, but you might have to modify a 32 rad. Still cheaper than importing one from the USA, probably.

[Paul Bjarnason]

Originally Posted by 1929

To all who said they have a Bergs or Brassworks radiator, are your radiators Pressurized??? is it better to have the pressurized?

My engine rebuilder told me to get a radiator from Bergs, but when I asked him about getting a pressurized system he told me that Bergs does not sell a radiator for a pressurized system, but Brassworks does. A pressurized system will have a higher boiling point than a non-pressurized system, which seems like an advantage to me.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I am purchasing a Bergs, no one has a complaint about them, drop in and it fits. Pressurized means you raise the boiling point, does not mean you are cooling any better, just have the possibility of letting the motor run hotter before coolant steams/boils. If it runs too much hotter the cylinder walls can get hot enough to have oil flashover and you loose ring/cylinder wall lubrication, metal on metal - not good.


A properly operating Model A cooling system (good/efficient/not filled with rust scale radiator, motor cooling passages not rusty/scaly) is the best. No need for a pressurized system.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Paul Bjarnason

My engine rebuilder told me to get a radiator from Bergs, but when I asked him about getting a pressurized system he told me that Bergs does not sell a radiator for a pressurized system, but Brassworks does. A pressurized system will have a higher boiling point than a non-pressurized system, which seems like an advantage to me.

The disadvantage is that it will cause the water pump to leak unless you have a modified one. Under normal conditions the Model A should not exceed standard (non pressurized) boiling temperature, if it does there is something else wrong.

Charlie Stephens