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11-19-2021, 01:02 PM | #21 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Again, to each his own, if you want a totally stock Model A, that’s fine, and if you want a more reliable engine that great too. It’s your car, do what you want with it. I’m just wondering how many of those that want a totally stock Model A have installed high compression heads, overdrive and other modifications. If you want the total experience then try to get 46 octane gas.
David Serrano |
11-19-2021, 01:02 PM | #22 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
PC/SR, Mark, and Wayne,
Thank you for your comments that are copied below. No doubt the Burtz engine is better designed and engineered than Henry's original A. To my mind using it is not much different than using a Pinto engine as was used in the Shay, or any other after market engine. To each his own. I am not a purist but I do like the authenticity factor of using the original engine, and mods of a type that were available back in the day if that is fun for you. Hey, what's the fun (and challenge) of owning a Model A if you do not have a knock, rattle, miss, oil, water or gas leak, timing problem, occasional breakdown, etc. I do hope the organizations do not start recognizing the Burtz as a Model A equivalent engine and accepting it in judging and competition. PC/SR I agree with PC/SR's post. If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it. To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all. I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild. I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique. I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle. All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time. I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion. This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out. Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ? Mark I totally agree with you. I want a stock A like my dad drove. Wayne The “New Engine” consists of 3 parts (cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rod) that replace three frail original parts that often fail due to antique engineering, miss-machining in prior rebuilds, cracks, fatigue, etc. All interfaces on the “New Engine” allow the use of stock bolt-on parts and through laser scanning, the exterior of the new cylinder block is accurate within a few wavelengths of light to an original cylinder block. If built stock, the appearance and performance of the "New Engine" is identical to a Model A engine as it rolled off the assembly line. You can still use the “New Engine” and have a stock Model A like your Dad drove and experience all of the rattles, miss-firing, oil leaks, water leaks, gas leaks, timing problems, and occasional breakdowns because all attaching parts that cause these problems can be worn out original parts. Last edited by Terry Burtz, Calif; 11-19-2021 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Misspelled word |
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11-19-2021, 01:19 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Quote:
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11-19-2021, 01:34 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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11-19-2021, 02:16 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Quote:
Now $4500 for a rebuilt Model B short block plus an engine you provide. How much do you expect to pay for a B engine if you can find one that is rebuildable? |
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11-19-2021, 03:28 PM | #26 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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I don't care if the new block is indistinguishable from an old block in appearance and others think it is a original block the fact does not change , It is NOT a original Ford manufactured block. This is very important for me. Mark. |
11-19-2021, 03:37 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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11-19-2021, 03:49 PM | #28 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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11-19-2021, 04:35 PM | #29 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
We see the price quoted on this post as "6500 and still need flywheel pressure plate, Etc" ?
Typical customer's engine rebuild from us for complete engine with pressure plate / flywheel; ready to go back in is from $6200-6500 including balancing and cracks repaired. The tipping point is cost of "New" engine, parts plus an addition to what you still need to source. https://www.facebook.com/pg/J-and-M-...71238802989695 Last edited by J and M Machine; 11-19-2021 at 06:59 PM. |
11-19-2021, 04:41 PM | #30 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
IMO, the cost to build any Burtz block is influenced by where you are. Over here, it is not easy to find the bearing shells (inserts) because none of the cars they came out of were ever sold here new. No Chevs, Buicks, Olds etc have been sold here since 1948 at least and apart from a few Asian assembled small cars, no cars wearing any GM badge will ever be sold here again.
I was only able to get a set of bearings for my Burtz engine because of the help of a very obliging forum member who lives in the US. He sourced them for me and sent them on. Dealing direct with the US suppliers is a real hassle. Some of them won't deal over seas (to us, they are the ones over seas!) and getting a reply is like pulling teeth from others. Not worth it.
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11-19-2021, 05:16 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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11-19-2021, 06:52 PM | #32 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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Pity our own manufacturing capability has been destroyed by the actions of ours and many other Governments around the world. I'm not sure whether the US signed on to this but I wouldn't be surprised. https://www.unido.org/sites/default/...6.3.1975_0.PDF On behalf of the others you have helped, I thank you. I am OK for now but it's good to know that such help is available.
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11-19-2021, 07:23 PM | #33 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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Just Kidding. I'm curious tho. What do the Hot Rodders use for engines?? I know a few guys are running Y-Block Fords. |
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11-19-2021, 07:55 PM | #34 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Synchro909,
Have you tried to buy the bearing inserts from Precision Int’l Pty Ltd W.A. Osborne Park 1300 364 350 in Australia? They are the distributor for King bearings in Australia, and the basic part number is CR 624, and sets have a basic part number starting with CR 803. Check out this catalog page: http://www.king-catalog.com/Catalog/Engine/20050956 |
11-19-2021, 08:49 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Quote:
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11-19-2021, 09:03 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
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From what I can see, regulations relating to what modifications can be made to a car are very much more stringent here. For example, with our Model As, if the engine is more than 25% more powerful than the original, the car has to be assessed by an automotive engineer and passed as complying with the regs. Such a car is considered a new build and so must comply with modern requirements like windscreen washers, two (at least) speed wipers, seat belts, collapsible steering column and brake tests that a Model A could not hope to pass with standard wheels and there are restrictions on what wheels can be substituted, even if we could get them. I have never seen a 16" wheel here other than ones recently imported from the US, for example. Try fitting a retractable lap/sash seat belt to an open car! Many of the cars on your roads would be allowed here without upgrades. I have a friend who has been looking for a 1933 or 34 Ford. He says that sellers over there can't understand when they say their car has this or that motor in it (other than the original) and it is an instant deal breaker.
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11-19-2021, 09:50 PM | #37 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Bob Bidonde I had put this together prices from Brattons book!
I would think there are a couple other things hat have to be considered: Does the block have to be cleaned up (filing/grinding)? Also another consideration is who will assemble the engine yourself/builder? Hope it helps even a little more! Cape Codder |
11-19-2021, 10:16 PM | #38 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Quite frankly, a Burtz engine would be a bargain based on what I’ve invested in this one! 60HP at the rear wheels.
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11-20-2021, 02:30 AM | #39 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Arnold, I just got 5 sets from the king agent here no drama.
Lawrie |
11-20-2021, 08:12 AM | #40 |
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Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine
Bob, I sent an email...
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