Need for thermostats??

[34fordy]

Has anyone had experience running a 34 V8 without thermostats? If so, does the engine tend to run too cold or does the water circulate too fast and run too hot? Or just fine. Summertime in the Midwest is the only occasion of use.

I did a search and found numerous answers--No need to reply--Thanks

[JSeery]

A lot of people run flatheads without thermostats. I don't think it's a good idea, but a lot of people do, so it is one of the issues that is based on opinion and you are most likely not going to change anyone's mind on the subject. All engines are heat engines, the hotter they run the more efficient they are, but there are limits. Modern engines run much hotter because of the drive to maximize efficiency is worth the cost of designing them to allow the higher temps. On a flathead you do not have a pressurized cooling system, so the boiling point of water is a limiting factor and that varies with altitude above sea level. The higher the temperature your flathead runs at the more efficient it is and the less slug you will having in the oil system. This is because the higher temperatures helps clean the impurities out of the oil. I run 180° to 185° thermostats, that keeps the engine temperature up and allows a margin between running efficiently and boiling over! If you engine wants to overheat, I would work on improving the cooling of the engine.

Edit: I modified the above by removing a comment about using lower opening temperature thermostats to increase the margin between operation temperature and overheating. It was my feeble attempt to be less controversial to the low temperature thermostat folks. As GM points out in #6 below, the real issue is the cooling system, if your engine is overheating, you should address the many ways to improve the cooling system, it is not a thermostat issue.

[39topless]

Originally Posted by 34fordy

Has anyone had experience running a 34 V8 without thermostats? If so, does the engine tend to run too cold or does the water circulate too fast and run too hot? Or just fine. Summertime in the Midwest is the only occasion of use.

I did a search and found numerous answers--No need to reply--Thanks

"No need to reply"', so what's the point of the post? If you want opinions, I would go with thermostats because they serve a purpose.

[joe 1950]

i run 160 t stats 1n my 1950 have ben doing this for the 18 years ive owned it never over heated and runs great also I use the old dependable yellow prestone coolant 50/50 mix

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by joe 1950

i run 160 t stats 1n my 1950 have ben doing this for the 18 years ive owned it never over heated and runs great also I use the old dependable yellow prestone coolant 50/50 mix

And no one will ever convince you that you are running it way to cool, correct?

[G.M.]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by JSeery

And no one will ever convince you that you are running it way to cool, correct?

What makes you think he's running to cool??? His 160 stats are going to make the engine run ABOVE 160 in cool weather. Most people with old cars only drive them in warmer weather conditions. When the engine temperature gets above 160 the stats are WIDE open and stay there until the coolant drops below 160. Stats only make an engine run hotter and have NOTHING to do with cooling. The main thing to maintain cooling over a large temperature range is large opening high flow stats and a closed system, meaning a device in the filler neck to keep water from free flowing out of the over flow tube. A 4 lb pressure cap on radiators made for pressure caps or Skip Haney's 3 lb pressure valve on the bottom of the over flow tube. These devices have nothing to do with raising the boiling point. Their function is to keep the ALL of the coolant in the system and act as a safety valve incase of over heating. Heat makes pressure and if the heat gets over 210 these devices release the pressure with very little loss of coolant. If there is a problem say leaky head gasket then there will be a larger loss. G.M.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by G.M.

What makes you think he's running to cool??? His 160 stats are going to make the engine run ABOVE 160 in cool weather. Most people with old cars only drive them in warmer weather conditions. When the engine temperature gets above 160 the stats are WIDE open and stay there until the coolant drops below 160. Stats only make an engine run hotter and have NOTHING to do with cooling. The main thing to maintain cooling over a large temperature range is large opening high flow stats and a closed system, meaning a device in the filler neck to keep water from free flowing out of the over flow tube. A 4 lb pressure cap on radiators made for pressure caps or Skip Haney's 3 lb pressure valve on the bottom of the over flow tube. These devices have nothing to do with raising the boiling point. Their function is to keep the ALL of the coolant in the system and act as a safety valve incase of over heating. Heat makes pressure and if the heat gets over 210 these devices release the pressure with very little loss of coolant. If there is a problem say leaky head gasket then there will be a larger loss. G.M.

I agree 100% except why would you want the Stats to open at 160°? Why not at least 170° or even better 180°. The Stats are not going to change the upper operating temperature, only the lower range. The idea of a thermostat is to get the engine up to operating temperature as quickly as possible and maintain a lower temperature limit. The higher this lower limit is the better it is for the engine.
It is totally correct that thermostats have NOTHING to do with cooling and/or overheating, but for some reason a lot of people seem to think so. Why else would you run the lower temperature stats in the first place? Lower engine temperature offers no benefits to the engine and a lot of negatives.

Edit: Missed the boiling point comment, so I don't agree 100%, but do like the idea of the pressure valve on the overflow and plan on adding one myself. However, the increase in pressure, 3 or 4 psi, will raise the boiling point of the system.

3 psi increase raises the boiling point ~10° and a 4 psi increase ~13°. Also a 50/50 mixture of anti-freeze will raise the boiling point around 11°. Water boils at 212° at sea level, but decreases ~1° for every 500ft in elevation above sea level.

[flatjack9]

Amen!

[johnny]

I have a 39 Merc. with the fan on the end of the crank. Stopped in traffic, the engine is turning so slow , the temp slowly creeps up with a 180 stat there is less room for that creep to hot , than what a 160 allows [extra 20 degrees ]. In the old days the recommend was 160 summer,180,winter. Most don't drive these cars in winter . John.

[scooder]

Surely water under pressure does have a higher boiling point! That's physics is it not?
I'd go for, the idea behind the 4lb cap or 3lb check valves is too keep the water from disappearing down the overflow and out of the system, but they also raise the boiling point of the water.
That's the way I understand physics, if I'm wrong, please let me know what I missed here.
I'd go with higher 'stats than the 160, I don't think there's any benefit from these low temp ones, and lots of benefit with higher temp 'stats.
Martin.

[34fordy]

I am enjoying this thread more than I intended in the beginning!! We now have many senior members with a lot of experience and knowledge participating--What a benefit to us youngsters--We get to glean from the opinions what we like and get a bit of knowledge along the way--This is truly a great forum to belong to--Thanks to all--Don

[blucar]

The question to use stats, or not use them has been debated over and over for the past sixty years.. The common consensus is: Use, don't use.. The wide variation of opinions pertaining to the use of stats is mostly based on very old habits that have been passed down from father to son, i.e. older generations.
The basis for these opinions are based on two beliefs:
1.. That stats are only needed for winter driving to warm the coolant/engine up so the heater will work.
2.. The anti-freeze of the early thirty's/forty's was generally an alcohol based product. Alcohol boils at 180 degrees, therefor it was a common practice to drain the alcohol based anti-freeze and remove the stats in the spring, re-installing them in the fall.
When I went through an auto mechanics school in the early 1950's, the phase covering engine cooling systems stressed the importance of stats to maintain an optimum operating temp of 180 degrees, winter or summer.
The problems of not running stats, to maintain a constant temp is that variations in the operating temp can cause excessive swings in the engine temp/coolant, rising on the up grade of a hill, and falling to very low temps on the down hill. These temp swings can lead to cracked blocks/heads..
Modern engineering has raised the average operational engine temp to 195/200, yet I know several people that put 140/160 degree stats in their modern engines because they think the engineers/factory's don't know what they are talking about.
Ford, as well as most of the manufactures of the '30's and later, shipped their cars from the factory with thermostats, that should pretty well sum up the whole subject.

[40 Deluxe]

Blucar, good point about the methanol based antifreeze. It was still popular in the '50's and even into the '60's. As I remember, the recommendation was to use 160 deg. stats for methanol antifreeze and 180 for "permanent" antifreeze (it was called 'permanent' because it didn't evaporate/boil out like the methanol did-with methanol antifreeze you had to keep a close eye on coolant level). If you were a broke kid like me and ran a flathead with a cracked block, you had to use the methanol because what got into the oil evaporated back out, unlike the permanent, which stayed in the pan and ate your bearings!

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by johnny

I have a 39 Merc. with the fan on the end of the crank. Stopped in traffic, the engine is turning so slow , the temp slowly creeps up with a 180 stat there is less room for that creep to hot , than what a 160 allows [extra 20 degrees ]. In the old days the recommend was 160 summer,180,winter. Most don't drive these cars in winter . John.

This is a similar problem that I had with my 39. The solution was a fan shroud. End of problem. I use 180 deg. stats.

[deuce_roadster]

I think it depends on where you live and drive. Without thermostats, my avatar roadster won't get above 110 degrees and runs like crap. With them it runs great all the time.

[Fartman]

my 34 roadster that i just bought has no thermostats,i live in Australia and it doesnt get that cold.should i run stats?.i havnt run it yet as the radiator has a hole in it and im getting it fixed.original motor in this car.

[Talkwrench]

Yes you should run them 180 * if Ford didn't think they where any good they wouldn't use them. If your cooling system doesn't run with properly with them in there is something wrong with your cooling system.

[G.M.]

I run Bob Shewman's 180 degrees stats in 4 of my old Fords in temperatures from 50 to 95. They all run at 178 to 182 at all times at driving speeds. I also run Skips modified pumps for better cooling. They all stay below 195 at low speeds and a reasonable time at idle. Bob has modified high flow Robertshaw 330-180 stats to fit in the upper hoses of all 32 to 48 engines plus ones for 49 to 53. Don't listen to this talk of running these engines up at or near 200 degrees, when the engine runs at this temperature for any length of time I don't want to be sitting in that car. Even the hood gets so hot the air coming across it pushes HOT air in the vent plus the firewall and floor is hot. I have made many 1,200 miles 2 day trips with temperatures above 100 and was comfortable at highway speeds with cool air coming in the vent. G.M Bob Shewman 1-610-933-6637 or [email protected]

[flatjack9]

He modifies the thermostats by drilling a series of holes around the perimeter. Genius. Not!

[Old Henry]

It is very strange to me that some think they have figured out Ford's engines better than he did after building them for 40 years and think they need to run hotter than 160°. Ford specified 160° thermostats for his V8 and made all of his original thermostats to run at that temperature. That's good enough for me and has always worked for me just fine.