New Doodlebug Owner

[Liberty Garage]

Hi guys! I'm a proud new owner of what I believe is Model AA based doodlebug. When growing up in the late 60's, my dad found and we rebuilt a 1929 Model A based doodlebug, we rebuilt the engine, had many new or rebuilt pieces and painted it black with red trim. The 29 grille shell was trashed so dad found a shiny 31 shell and then built a small hood. It had the Model A 3 spd backed by what I think was a Chevy truck 4 spd and it must of had an AA rear end because it had dual bud rear wheels. It also had 37 Ford style front wheels and caps on a spring-less swing axle. This is the vehicle I learned to drive on. Alas, not one photo found so far.

As an adult I've often thought about this little tractor and looked at many photos on the net and hoped to one day find it. An ad recently caught my eye on CL because this doodlebug had the same style front hub caps and was the first time I'd seen a doodlebug with these wheels and caps since I started looking. Could this be the one? Two days later we drug it home from about 300 miles North and it is now residing in its owns safe and dry corner of my shop carport;

http://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com/...B3dpN&lb=1&s=A

One question I have, is regarding the PTO and pump setup that wa son it. I pulled it off as I do not think I have a use for it, but not even sure what it is or what its for. The PTO is a 6 bolt and the PTO Driven Water Pump has the words The Deming Co. Salem Ohio cast into it along with these casting numbers; AA2880 Mount, AA2966 Pump Body and BB2871 Pump End Cap.

http://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com/...Z75C5&lb=1&s=A

http://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com/...Ndj5z&lb=1&s=A

http://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com/...Kk5mj&lb=1&s=A

I hope the picture links worked, if not I can get educated on a better method of posting pictures here. I'm hoping that some of you will have knowledge of this pump and what it may have been used for.

Thanks!

[Mike V. Florida]

Best of luck of with it.

[foxfire42]

Looks like you have a mouse house in the last picture. I hope the resident has moved on. Sorry I can't help with your questions. I'm still in the AA-101 class. It may take me years to graduate.

[Liberty Garage]

Kroil, it's a miracle! As the first big step to getting this rust pile up and running again, I've been trying to get the transmission shift tower off. Slowly wedging in putty knives, soaking with PB Blaster, then gradually driving in thicker implements until I could spray penetrant directly onto the shift forks and gears, but not any major progress until switching to Kroil.

https://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com...IMG_1588-M.jpg

After about a week of squirting Kroil into the transmission, I finally felt the tower start to move.

https://lastchancegarage.smugmug.com...IMG_1587-M.jpg

Anyway, pretty happy to make a little progress.

PS, can anyone tell me how to properly post pictures here?

[1955cj5]

If the pictures are sized properly you should just be able to

go advanced

scroll down to and click on manage attachments

Click on "choose file" in the new window, find your picture files and open them

Then click "upload"

They should post along with your comments....

[Liberty Garage]

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Originally Posted by foxfire42

Looks like you have a mouse house in the last picture. I hope the resident has moved on. Sorry I can't help with your questions. I'm still in the AA-101 class. It may take me years to graduate.

I too am in AA-101, it's pretty interesting! I can't help but think someone out there knows what these pumps were used for? It seems by all the AA and BB markings on the pumps and bracketry that this was a Ford approved accessory. Thanks for responding!

[Bob C]

Looks like they still make Deming pumps. http://cranepumps.com/products/produ...ID&browseID=37

Bob

[Liberty Garage]

Attempting to add pictures properly, here goes;

[1930artdeco]

Check out the AA Forums and the AA Ford truck page. If it has the letters AA in it they will be able to answer your questions.

Mike

[Liberty Garage]

Thanks to all of you!

[C26Pinelake]

I am curious, what did you have to pay for it ? Wayne

[Liberty Garage]

Gathering parts;

Recently did some work on a Honda quad as barter for a much better cowl than the one on the doodlebug, I thought it was 30-31 but then had an encounter with an older gentleman selling parts on CL who said it was actually a late 29 cowl. He said you could tell it was a late '29 because it still had the screw on style gas cap and because it uses the older style dash gauge panel. This fellow also sold me several other pieces to go along with the cowl and a radiator I got off of Ebay. As of now, parts include the cowl, radiator, grille shell, transmission and bellhousing, dashboard and gauges, and a motor that will be picked up in 2 weeks.

Planning to gather parts and pieces all winter and then next summer begin the tear down and rebuild of this old machine. Here are pics of Fred with his doodlebug as well as his very original '29, and my "new" parts & pieces;

[Neil Mylar LakewoodCA]

Your new cowl is off a 28/29 fordor sedan.
You can use it as is and replace your existing cowl
Or you can take the gas tank out of the fordor cowl and put it on top of your existing cowl.
If you want it to look the way it used to look, you'll probably want to do the later.

That's a neat story that you were able to find your old family doodlebug.
Neil

[Bill Cilker]

You have a 1929 to 1931 model AA 4 speed transmission behind the engine and a 28-29 dual high Ford auxiliary transmission behind it. You have an interesting project. Be careful, it will want a garage mate soon.

[mike657894]

in the icons above the text window click the mountains icon to insert an image and paste the image url in there or put [IMG]image url adress[/IMG]

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

Thanks to all of you!

The Dog wants to know, "IS IT THE SAME DOODLEBUG"?
Bill W.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

The Dog wants to know, "IS IT THE SAME DOODLEBUG"?
Bill W.

My brother says yes, I say no. It has some striking similarities but a few tiny clues that tell me it is a different tractor. Coincidentally my brother says he's found another doodlebug near Spokane that is intriguingly familiar. Stay tuned for updates on the build and any new discoveries.

[Liberty Garage]

Headed back to see Fred this Saturday, will be picking up an engine and he agreed to sell a pair of AA bud wheels. Will post more pics after the weekend.

Bill W; we may never know for sure, the memories of a 14 year old and his brother are pretty vague, I clearly remember the front wheels and hub caps, my brother remembers the steering, rear brakes & linkage. The items that are significantly different, mainly transmissions, could have been changed in the last 45 years. Will we ever know? Maybe it doesn't matter. I'm loving the project and enjoying the process and so is my brother.

[Liberty Garage]

Went back to see Fred this weekend and bought an engine and two rear wheels.

He said all of his engines had been in something that ran when they were removed, so I took a gamble. I picked a random motor and gave him $300. My plan for the motor is to pull the head and clean & inspect and to pull the pan and plastigage the bearing clearances and check the cam condition. I may even go ahead and put in a set of rings, but that will be next summer and plenty of time to ponder that move.

The pieces are piling up, I'm hopeful that when I really tear into this project it will not take long to have a running tractor.

[2manycars]

From the photos, it looks like you have a dual-hi reduction transmission behind the 4 speed. That is the same setup I had in my doodlebug. It makes for a really low low. Mine had the rocker foot pedal cut off, and a lever welded to it.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

From the photos, it looks like you have a dual-hi reduction transmission behind the 4 speed. That is the same setup I had in my doodlebug. It makes for a really low low. Mine had the rocker foot pedal cut off, and a lever welded to it.

I've seen pictures of the dual pedal setup you mention, I'm also planning to build some kind of hand lever to shift it with. I've seen pictures of your doodlebug before, that's a pretty nice rig!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

I am curious, what did you have to pay for it ? Wayne

Sorry I did not answer this question sooner! I paid $150 for it, the cost to go get it was more than that, LOL!

[Liberty Garage]

At long last enough other projects are caught up and I am a year or so into semi-retirement, no more excuses, the doodlebug has become the number 1 project.

Started working on the engine a couple weeks ago, first pulling the clutch and discovering that it must have been replaced just before they stopped driving it, the disc still clearly read "flywheel side", the pressure plate was very clean and the flywheel remarkably smooth. I had been thinking a new clutch but am just going to replace the disc and bearings.

Pulled the head and side valve cover and the cylinders were straight and smooth, the pistons are stamped ".020" and are snug in the bores, no ridge at all and the valves all looked really good, some looked fairly new. Rolling the engine over, I did discover a couple sticky valves, especially the number 3 intake valve. On the subject of valves, two of the intake valves are stamped "exh", which makes me wonder how an exhaust valve ended up in an intake hole?

Used a valve spring compressor, took all valves loose so could examine and then lap them in, the valve seats and faces looked excellent, hand lapped them and also took care of the valves that were hanging up with a good cleaning of the stem and working penetrant into the stem and guide.

As I lapped each pair of valves and then reset the spring and retainer, I took the opportunity to check clearances. All valves were between .015 to .019, except the #4 exhaust, which was a bit snug at .007. I could have pulled the valve by knocking out the guide, but then how was I going to cut it and keep it straight? Decided to leave the valve in place, cover the lifter and surrounding area with thick rags, laid a small fine metal file on top of the protected lifter and then used the lapping stick tot rotate the stem end on the file. It took a while but when the clearance was at .011 I decided that was "good enough" and also feeling the end of the stem sill felt nice and smooth. I was afraid to go to far, as not sure how deep the hard surface goes.

Also pulled the pan and other than a coat of congealed oil, everything looks really good and you can see the rods have been off, probably rebabitted at least once (if not twice) as the rods and caps have two sets of rebuilder marks identifying which cylinder they go to.

Camshaft looks good, timing gears look great, no wear, all teeth look perfect. Pulled oil pump apart and am giving it a thorough cleaning and also squirting penetrant down oil passages and using compressed air to push any old oil or goo out. Oil pump appears to be the latest version of the A style and gears and cover in good shape.

Other bits; bought a carb and distributor off ebay, a Tillotson and an old Mallory. Will kit the carb and so far the Mallory looks really good except the rotor which is cracked. We are planning to coat the rotor with liquid rubber just to hopefully hold together for an initial start and maybe later we can find a better rotor on ebay or?

At this point will start putting the motor back together as my brother is coming over from eastern Washington to help set the motor in the tractor next weekend.

Here are some pics;

[Liberty Garage]

a few more pics;

[Bob C]

Looks like you need to replace the oil return tube, looks to short.

Bob

[Bulligen]

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It looks like they turned a Ford V8 axle upside down and mounted it direct like a tractor at the front end!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Looks like you need to replace the oil return tube, looks to short.

Bob

I wondered about that, after your alert, did a quick read-up and have new drain pipe coming, thanks for the nudge!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

I wondered about that, after your alert, did a quick read-up and have new drain pipe coming, thanks for the nudge!

Not sure what the axle is off of, it is quite a hodge-podge of parts. =)

Maybe you and some other sharp eyed individuals could take a look at the pic of my steering gear. It is definitely not Model A and is missing the top cover and backlash adjuster, we are going to make a cover with backlash but sure would like to know what this came off of. We are keeping this gear for now, because I like the cross steer setup. That could change of course when we actually try to drive it! =)

[Liberty Garage]

We've drug the doodlebug into the shop and the lack of front tires and locked up right rear made that a challenge. My little kubota wasn't quite strong enough to lift it from the front, so we drug it out of the carport and then hooked up from the rear so we could lift and push.

Once in the shop and up on jack stands, the first order of business was to make it easier to move, as we will have to reverse it and put it in the shop backwards when we go to pull the old engine and set in the "new" one.

Used lots of penetrant and a bottle jack and hammer to get the RH drum off, it was a battle but after reading some of the other stories here on how difficult they can be, feel lucky it came off at all. The drums do not seem to match the brakes, as it seems like this is a mix of narrow non emergency brake drums onto a emergency brake equipped backing plate set up, in turn this is on a worm drive rear which probably did not have e-brakes to begin with? Thinking the drums may match the axle, but someone used a later set of backing plates? The ebrakes are missing but the large lug for them is still there and would have prevented the drum from going all the way on, I'm not so sure the drum hub was seated on the taper? Considering removing the ebrake lug and assembling without that protrusion, then the drums may fully cover the brake shoes?

Went to remove the left side wheel and was having no luck, but was reading this morning that they used LH threads? Will take a closer look at the threads today and maybe try again.

When the brakes had me stumped, went ahead and got the old rotted cowl off, and just did some general cleanup and tinkering.

As soon as the rear main oil drain tube arrives will get back to assembling the motor. Also had a concern on the oil pump, the housing has a protrusion that has a hole covered internally by the lower bushing, but tested the pump in a can of oil using a drill and it seems to pump fine. Please have a look at the oil pump picks and see if this protrusion with covered hole is any concern? Was not able to find any pics on the interweb that looked exactly like this one. Also pulled one rod cap just to check condition and plastigage, looked beautiful and came in at .002. Have cleaned and thoroughty flushed with penetrant and air pressure all oil passages and when feeding penetrant through main passages get a decent flow. Will oil these up before firing the first time.

Some other "small" jobs to accomplish this week are; cleaning and rubber coating the old Mallory rotor and cleaning and prepping the distributor, soldering up the crusty old radiator I bought off ebay, trying to get the generator freed up, if nothing else to use as an idler for the fan belt, otherwise i'm thinking of maybe using a piece of inner tube as a temporary fan belt for the first fire up. Also found a pair of usable 7.50 16's for the fronts and will get those mounted up.

Still hoping to set the motor in next weekend when my brother is here and trying to fire it, wish us luck!

[OldTee]

Crazy stuff!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by OldTee

Crazy stuff!

Hi Chuck (OldTee)! Spent another day in the shop Sunday, made more progress, left rear wheel and drum removed and several small pieces of progress made. Will post more pictures later today.

[Bob C]

The axle housings and axles are different between the rear ends with the different braking systems. I also think the wheel bearings and hub may be different. Your probably going to need hubs and drums for the separate system.

Bob

[Johnnydidd]

i have a 1928 Model AA Doodle Bug real nice condition its made out of 1928 AA has 4 speed transmission with place for PTO. It had speed reducer that was made for using a model A three speed car transmission that they used on the first 1927 AA Truck i did remove the reducer because it didn't fit the 4 speed. The pictures also show how i modified the drive shaft.

http://greenstore.org/Doodlebug.html

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The axle housings and axles are different between the rear ends with the different braking systems. I also think the wheel bearings and hub may be different. Your probably going to need hubs and drums for the separate system.

Bob

The more I look at it, the more I agree. Even with the ebrake panel removed, it looks like the taper will hold the hub and rum outboard from where it needs to go.Hopefully someone will need my narrow drums for an early non emergency brake setup? Will start looking on The Swap Meet, CL, Ebay etcetera for the ebrake style hubs and drums. Thanks!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Johnnydidd

i have a 1928 Model AA Doodle Bug real nice condition its made out of 1928 AA has 4 speed transmission with place for PTO. It had speed reducer that was made for using a model A three speed car transmission that they used on the first 1927 AA Truck i did remove the reducer because it didn't fit the 4 speed. The pictures also show how i modified the drive shaft.

http://greenstore.org/Doodlebug.html

That's a very nice doodlebug you've built, we've got a long long ways to go before we can hope to look that good! We have the same hi-low/dual driver/reducer on ours, it looks like it was reasonably well set up, but there are some various broken or worn pieces that will need addressed, its gonna be a challenge for sure.

[Liberty Garage]

Got the head cleaned and on today, was going at it slow and steady, almost finished when the water outlet cracked. It was an old one off the original tractor motor, had been broken or welded before and was hoping to get lucky but no go, have a new one on the way.

Also soldered on my very crusty cheap ebay radiator and while having some success with getting the upper bracket back in place, after cutting away some fins and soldering a couple of split tubes, filled it with water and found several more split. This radiator is junk (previous owner tried to make multiple repairs with epoxy/jb weld), just hoping to get through the initial start up with it and then will have to get another one or have it re-cored.

Still attempting to identify the steering box, cleaned on it some more today and realized the case is made of bronze or something similar, there is a casting number 16801, and also some kind of other identifying marks like 10 or @1 and a small arrow and then the same mark repeated, we also made a cover for it today, it's still pretty rough but coming along and should work ok when completed.

[Johnnydidd]

Why don't you adapt a garden hose on it instead of using a radiator, unhook the water pump,

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Johnnydidd

Why don't you adapt a garden hose on it instead of using a radiator, unhook the water pump,

Great idea, that has officially moved up to "Plan B"

Thanks!

[30aadoodlebug]

Hey Liberty,

Feel free to take a look at my doodle bug. I have a folder under my profile. If you have any questions about stuff, feel free to PM me.

Have fun with it,

Jon

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by 30aadoodlebug

Hey Liberty,

Feel free to take a look at my doodle bug. I have a folder under my profile. If you have any questions about stuff, feel free to PM me.

Have fun with it,

Jon

Love the plow conversion! The combination of green, off white and reddish brown seat look good together, very nice!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 30aadoodlebug

Hey Liberty,

Feel free to take a look at my doodle bug. I have a folder under my profile. If you have any questions about stuff, feel free to PM me.

Have fun with it,

Jon

I sure could have used that nice plow yesterday. I had to remove 12" of global warming off my driveway.

[Liberty Garage]

It runs! Here's a very brief video from Sunday afternoon of the initial start, lots of pics and story to follow later today;

https://www.facebook.com/OldTee/vide...3804073608730/

Hope the video link works, it's off of my brothers facebook page?!?

[Liberty Garage]

Started back on the project last Thursday, worked on it alone til my big brother got here, when he arrived I continued on engine related stuff while he began working on making it a roller. 1st round of pics, starting from installing correct rear main drain tube, cleaning oil pan and interior sub pan, installing front timing cover and cam button, really quick and dirty carb overhaul (will be re-doing that), cleaning and assembly of distributor (including testing condenser) and coating cracked rotor with silicone, replacement of the cracked upper water outlet and painting engine.

Last pics of this group show brother working on mounting front tires, all we could find were 7.50-16 mud tires and were those a bear to get on those narrow little wheels!

Next group of pics will show freeing rear brakes, pulling old engine, setting in "new" engine and all the peripheral stuff required to make it start.

[Liberty Garage]

2nd round of pics showing making it a roller, finishing up engine, pulling old and in with the new, brother crimping off the major burst radiator tubes (I started to solder and it was so bad we decided to just pinch off the big leaks for now), brother gutted the generator so we could use it as an idler for the fan belt, made a timing tab for tdc, and hooking up everything temporarily to start.

It did fire up (see video posted earlier) but the carb was leaking, timing was very iffy (I have a lot to learn about timing the Mallory in the Model A) and really need to get throttle and choke controls hooked up for finer adjustments during start up (many of those bits are on order) and a better fuel supply beyond the fuel line and funnel system we came up with. After the video and some further tinkering, it did fire up and actually ran for 30 or 40 seconds and sounded pretty good but loud (also need to build an exhaust system).

Oh yes, one other thing; I installed the front motor mount wrong, got the center spring on the wrong side of the cross member and the engine sat too high, which meant we had to block up the radiator for fan clearance. I could fill a book with what I don't know about Model A's!

The to-do list is long, but at least now it runs!

[Liberty Garage]

Continuing to make slow and steady progress on the doodlebug. Connected with some of local Model A folk, was able to get some much needed pieces including rear brakes and drums as well as a fairly decent radiator.

It is starting to look what we'd envisioned and it is also easier to make it a runner when you have a dash board and controls to work with. It now has a working gas pedal, choke control, reworked carb cold idle mixture needle, the beginnings of an exhaust system, reworked upper radiator hose with temp gauge port, better radiator, and a few other bits and pieces.

Once it runs and we verify there are no major issues, the next step will be transmission, hi-low 2 speed, rear brakes and finishing out wiring and controls. When that's all been mocked in or made to work, then a partial tear down to clean up everything, do a little paint and reassemble. We are also looking for a vintage type seat (maybe from an old school bus, like a leatherette 2-seater) to finish out the driving area, we are also looking for an old Ford tailgate, something with the old cool script, so we can build a small pickup box behind the front seat. Oh and rear tires, the local A guys were telling me they go to Les Schwab and they take the old wheels, have them blasted and powder coated and mount the tires, all for about $280 each. Sounds like a lot but at this point not sure there are any cheaper options out there.

One other thing that could be a challenge, what to do about he odd ball (and still unidentified) steering box? We will take the current box apart and see if it can be salvaged, but if not converting back to Model A may be the best bet. The issue with that is the flipped over axle has the steering arm on the passenger side, so would have to get creative there. Thoughts and suggestions welcome!

Here are a few pics showing the recent progress;

[Bud]

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Just an idea about your Deming pump, could this have been a water pump off a fire truck? Some of the era fire trucks may have used a pto powered pump, or maybe it was a homemade doodlebug to help pump water to refill a tank on a fire truck.

[Liberty Garage]

Agree, it could be either of your suggestions, was just showing it to some local Model A guys and they thought the same thing. What makes it neat is the "AA" cast on all pieces, except one bracket, it has "BB" on it. Had to be a factory option I'm thinking?

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

Agree, it could be either of your suggestions, was just showing it to some local Model A guys and they thought the same thing. What makes it neat is the "AA" cast on all pieces, except one bracket, it has "BB" on it. Had to be a factory option I'm thinking?

2800 series Ford part numbers are for Emergency Brake Controls,
so those are not Ford part numbers on the pump.

Bob

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Bob C

2800 series Ford part numbers are for Emergency Brake Controls,
so those are not Ford part numbers on the pump.

Bob

Thanks Bob! Not finding much information regarding Deming pumps, found an old 1920 catalog (online) and it referenced some A options and B options, maybe later on (in the '30's) they progressed to using AA and BB and had nothing to do with the Ford product, just a weird coincidence.

[Liberty Garage]

Progress update;

Since last posting have changed out the radiator (was able to get a really good used one for a reasonable price!), built the initial wiring harness, swapped out the Tilly for a Zenith, hooked up the carb controls, built an exhaust system and a few other changes or repairs I can't recall at the moment.

The harness will be further refined and then covered with looming, the Zenith was on another engine I bought, took apart and it had been rebuilt a few years back but a good cleaning and back together, starts & runs really good now and will just sit and idle! The exhaust system started from a flanged piece I got at O'Reillys, then into an elbow and into a small truck muffler and then a down turn. Much quieter now and more enjoyable to let it sit there and run.

Much more to do, but some other projects will take center stage for awhile (we ride AHRMA and have a couple old BSA's that need attention before the season starts), will peck away at it when time allows and then my brother (OldTee) and I plan to hit it hard again in mid-May, hoping to be at a point where we can do a partial tear down, clean and paint a few more things and then a final assembly. Would like it to be drive-able before end of summer.

The pictures tell the story, thanks for looking!

[SeaSlugs]

FYI on that dual high when you take it apart 2 things: 1 the input utput shaft seals are same as some 1970's jeep transfer case seals and can be had at napa for $4 ea instead of the catalogs $16 ea.

Also when you disassemble it DO NOT remove what appears to be a lock ring holding the planetary gears in. it is a ring that was heated up and dropped on so when it cooled it tightened up and held the shafts in. If you pry it off it will never go back on and stay on so leave it alone and soak the whole thing in kerosine to degunk.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

FYI on that dual high when you take it apart 2 things: 1 the input utput shaft seals are same as some 1970's jeep transfer case seals and can be had at napa for $4 ea instead of the catalogs $16 ea.

Also when you disassemble it DO NOT remove what appears to be a lock ring holding the planetary gears in. it is a ring that was heated up and dropped on so when it cooled it tightened up and held the shafts in. If you pry it off it will never go back on and stay on so leave it alone and soak the whole thing in kerosine to degunk.

Excellent info, thanks for sharing! I have another question regarding the dual highs; can they be installed backwards and used as an overdrive? I'm pondering another Model A build (something street legal) and have second dual high I could use for that project. Thanks again!

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

Excellent info, thanks for sharing! I have another question regarding the dual highs; can they be installed backwards and used as an overdrive? I'm pondering another Model A build (something street legal) and have second dual high I could use for that project. Thanks again!

Its been done but they run hot and loud - its running a planetary gear system in reverse and they dont like that. Best just to get a Mitchel or something designed to be an overdrive.

[zteegarden]

Hey Uncle Rick, the doodlebug is really coming together nicely! Proud of you guys for getting to this point already. This is an awesome forum to gain wisdom from other guys who have been through it already.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by zteegarden

Hey Uncle Rick, the doodlebug is really coming together nicely! Proud of you guys for getting to this point already. This is an awesome forum to gain wisdom from other guys who have been through it already.

Hey Zach! Welcome aboard for this adventure!

Yes, lots of wisdom on this site, I get on here almost daily and read most of the tech posts, learning bunches and these guys have helped answer many questions already.

Your dad and I are really enjoying building this together, we are planning for him to come back later in May and really make some progress. We've talked about you joining us and wishing you were here!

[Liberty Garage]

Although it's been quite awhile since the last post, progress has continued...slowly. Like a lot of you, often there are at least half a dozen projects competing for my time and the old doodlebug sits weeks at a time, waiting its turn. When my brother shows up, progress moves along a lot more quickly.

The most recent visit he brought along one of his grandsons, a budding young gear head named Whitman or "Whit" for short. Whitman is only 7, but seems much older. Very smart and loves all things mechanical. Before this trip, he had his mom print out diagrams of Model A's and studied them so he knew the names of many parts. He really dug in and got to work and showed a genuine aptitude for turning wrenches. Already looking forward to his next visit!

Whit also got to help his grandpa do a partial tear down of the original engine from the doodlebug, and much to our surprise it looked a lot better inside then expected. It looks like the pistons were pretty fresh when it was parked, there was hardly any carbon on them. This engine may one day run again. Old Henry and Edsel sure built a marvelous machine!

While Chuck and Whit were here, in addition to tearing down the old engine, we refurbished and installed a 1947 Wisconsin fuel tank and petcock and got the steering to about 95% completion.

The fuel tank is a semi temporary solution until such a time when we are ready to clean out the old tank. Another friend has a '29 hi-boy (mostly stock) and he uses a 2 gallon tank with fuel pump because his fuel tank was so far gone. This gave me the idea and I just changed it up a bit to remain gravity fed.

A few weeks back, I cut most of the steering out and started over. The steering now consists of a nice used stock Model A column, the original wheel that came on the doodlebug that sure looks like a Model T, refurbished the center spider, painted it the Ford green and installed a new rim from Mac's. Fit on the A column, just had to shave the key a bit. Also hooked up the hand throttle, one of the reasons for switching back to a stock column. Connecting the drag link to the left front required some creativity. Decided to fabricate a steering arm using some flat stock and a ball from Mac's. Turned out well but a bit too much flex, so will be adding additional triangulation.

During this same session, I used a combination of torch, recip saw and the wheel of death to remove the rear hitch bumper and cut the rear end loose from the frame, allowing everything to slide back so the transmission could eventually be installed.

This week will be taking the best two rear wheels to Les Schwabs so they can be powder coated and get new tires, also have another pair of front wheels that are much better than the rollers on the tractor now, will get them painted to match the rears and install some better front tires.

After getting the tires sorted will install the clutch and transmission, have also filled the two speed and rear end full of diesel to let them soak and then drained before working on them.

Mocked up the small bus seat and also a windshield frame just to see how it would all look. Lots of work left to do, but the finish line is at least in sight! Attaching photos that tell the rest of the story.

[Drive Shaft Dave]

I like what you have done so far ,but I would like to see the original starter on it.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Drive Shaft Dave

I like what you have done so far ,but I would like to see the original starter on it.

Haha, yes it is quite a jolt to the eyeballs! Would it help if i paint it black?

Wire-wheeled the rear wheels yesterday, as you can see from my selfie, they were pretty grungy!

[Liberty Garage]

Last few days have been working on wheels and steering, the original front wheels we first used were rusted out and only safe enough to roll around in the shop, this "new" set is a lot better and although rusty cleaned up and should be safe enough for running around the property and maybe parades, etc. Not expecting to go above 10 to 15 mph, ever.

The steering arm as first built had a lot of flex, added triangulation back to the lower tie rod arm and feels a lot better now.

Got the rear wheels/tires dismounted at Les Schwab, back to the wire wheel and possibly sand blasting, then will prime wheels with rust fix and paint with the Ford engine green, matching the process used on the front wheels. 6.00 x 20 tires ordered at Schwab's, should be in next week.

A few pics of the revised arm and new front tires on better wheels are attached.

[Liberty Garage]

After Les Schwab removed the old tires from the rear rims, the wheels were worse off than originally thought. If these were going on a road worthy vehicle, I'd get better wheels. Since it is going for a low speed parade rig, they can be made to work (at least temporarily) but will require care and caution. The condition of the wheels meant that powder coating is out, as they understandably will not powder coat a wheel that is deemed unsafe.

The other day i spent about 3 hours wire wheeling the wheels externally, yesterday about the same amount of time was spent wire wheeling them internally and also using a hammer and chisel to get the really stuck rust deposits off, especially in the lock ring grooves. Finished off with a good coat of rust fix. Today will clean and treat the lock rings and start painting the wheels.

The plan right now is to carefully assemble the tires, wheels and lock rings and put the loader bucket over the wheel (fairly snug) and using only as much air pressure as required, when the lock rings are in position, mig weld in at least four places. I know it's a bit hillbilly, but I'm determined to get this thing up and moving on its own this month.

Ideally better wheels will be located at some point, possibly enough to have duals, and at such time the new tires can be moved to the better wheels.

The first day of wire wheeling my back was really stiff, so yesterday I covered the seat of a shop bar stool and put the wheels on that while i worked. Much easier and more effective and today my back is feeling much better.

Yesterday afternoon, I took the little box off of a garden trailer and placed it on the back, wanted to see what that would look like and it seems about the right size. In order to get it placed, i had to cut the flange off an angle iron cross brace and went thru a half dozen 4.5" abrasive wheels, whew!

I like the look of the box and think when the back wheels are on the proportions will be ok. I'm not liking the height of the bus seat and will probably take the seat back apart, cut the frame down and then put the upholstery back on.

Starting to look like a 1 ton roadster pickup doodlebug the Clampetts might have owned.

[OldTee]

Let's not put a Rocker on that otherwise flawless Model A!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by OldTee

Let's not put a Rocker on that otherwise flawless Model A!

Oh great, now I'm looking for rocking chairs!

[Liberty Garage]

Another busy day, wheels and lock ring cleaning is completed, now just getting them painted. Between coats of primer & paint, worked on other things.

Moved on to installing the clutch and transmission. The engine we used came with a very new clutch, the words "fly side" were still clearly printed on the disc when taken apart, pressure plate looked new as well. Buffed up the flywheel and pressure plate, replaced the disc and throw out bearing and put it in. Then slid the transmission into place. Hopefully next week it will be hooking up the two speed and rear end, putting on the brakes and rear tires and then maybe a little drive.

[Liberty Garage]

Lessons learned the hard way;

Once the trans and clutch were installed, hooked up the clutch linkage and had a hard pedal and zero release of the clutch. Nothing I changed or adjusted seemed to help. Then I started reading posts here and elsewhere explaining how the clutch fingers are adjusted BEFORE installing. Some extremely useful information was found right here on the Ford barn that had been posted in the past by some of you very wise Model A experts.

Once I realized the mistake, had to walk away for day or two to digest possible remedies. Pulling the trans back out probably seems like a no-brainer, but working alone it had been a challenge getting it in and was looking to avoid pulling and reinstalling.

I decided to try and work thru the bell housing inspection hole, attempt to un-stake the coil spring nuts and adjust them in place. Using all the collective wisdom found here and elsewhere, I first made a finger depth measuring tool and attached a long zip tie. This came in handy as it did fall down into the bell housing at least once. I also used a sharpy and numbered each finger and pivot on the pressure plate cover.

The first measurement showed the fingers were showing a depth (from the outer or rear surface of the pressure plate assembly) of 7/8". The acceptable range is 5/8" to 3/4" with 11/16" considered optimal. So I marked the measuring tool (really just a lathe bit) at the beginning depth as well as the ideal depth.

Un-staking the nuts was really the hardest part of the job. Some came easy and some very hard. Once the nuts were un-staked, holding the slotted end of the spring adjusting rod with a screw driver and turning the nut (turning the nuts clockwise moves the fingers outward, toward the throw-out bearing) was not working, ended up taking a small pair of needle nose vice grips and grinding them on the sides of the jaws until they would fit in between the coils of the external finger spring and grip it tightly enough to adjust the nut.

It is surprising how a small adjustment on the nut makes such a big difference in the finger height. Went thru the measuring and adjustment process twice and also carefully watched the throw out bearing and ensured the contact with the fingers was occurring simultaneously. Not as exact as a dial indicator, but it appears to have worked. The whole process took about 2.5 hours.

Hoping to finish connecting the drive line components in the next day or so and seeing how the clutch operates.

Will I ever forget to pre-adjust a Model A clutch before installing? Not bloody likely!

Attached pics show the tool and a blurry before image and a much better after image.

[Liberty Garage]

Made a lot of progress today. Got the 2 speed coupled to the trans and the rear end coupled to the 2 speed. Spent more time cleaning parts then the actual bolting up process.

Next up was the 2 speed foot pedal assembly and the only rod I had to connect it with was way too long (maybe a brake rod?)but put some creative bends in it just to get the proper length and try it out.

Mixed Power Punch 50/50 with #140 gear oil and filled all gear boxes and purposely over filled the 2 speed in the hopes that it will flow (leak!) forward and backward into the couplings. Pre-greased the u-joints as most people advised but did not go overboard. Also greased up the cone shaped portions of the coupling assembly's.

Fired up the engine, pressed in the clutch, put it in gear and let the clutch out and it all seemed to work. The 2 speed seems to shift better than the trans (because it's planetary?) and the gear boxes all seemed reasonably quiet. Clutch pedal still has too much free play, but can adjust some of that, but may need to replace some of the very worn linkage as well.

All that's left in the drive train is to install the rear brakes and wheels & tires. Biggest challenge of the brakes will be that the crossbar is up inside the frame and I think its supposed to go under the frame rails? Also one end of the cross bar appears to have been cut off with a torch so will need to find a cross bar. Already have brake rods, clevis ends and pins coming from Mac's.

Can't wait to drive it and also am looking forward to doing the creative stuff like modifying the bus seat (cutting the back down) installing the rear "bed", some cleaning & painting and other things to give it more personality.

[Liberty Garage]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Need some help from you more experienced Model A guys; because my doodlebug started life as an early '29 without emergency brakes, but at some point received a worm drive differential WITH emergency brakes, the prior owners had concocted their own cross bar and connections. What's left to work with is one cross bar apparently out of position, that has one end cut off. They may have been driving this and only using the right rear brake.

So now I have the correct rear brake assembly's, drums, etc to restore full rear braking, but need an illustration or diagram of what the cross bars for service brake and separate emergency brake should look like.

To further complicate matters, my three speed is an earlier type with center hand brake lever.

Cutting, welding, fabbing is not a problem, just need some clues on how to proceed.

Thanks!

[Bob C]

Here are some pictures of the service brake cross shaft and emergency
brake shaft bolted to the cross member.


Bob

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Here are some pictures of the service brake cross shaft and emergency
brake shaft bolted to the cross member.


Bob

Thanks Bob, this is really helpful! Are the two service brake cross shafts the same ones out on ebay, are they yours? i have them on my watch list.

From what I can see, the e-brake rod would come down just to the right of the drive line, from the handle to the cross shaft?

On the service brake, it seems like my cross shaft is sort of in the correct location but should be below the frame rails, not sitting on top of them?

I really appreciate your insight!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

Thanks Bob, this is really helpful! Are the two service brake cross shafts the same ones out on ebay, are they yours? i have them on my watch list.

From what I can see, the e-brake rod would come down just to the right of the drive line, from the handle to the cross shaft?

On the service brake, it seems like my cross shaft is sort of in the correct location but should be below the frame rails, not sitting on top of them?

I really appreciate your insight!

When you get the brakes sorted out and working well, see if you can fab up steering brakes; that is, a separate hand lever for each rear drum. Crank the steering wheel hard left (or right), grab the brake lever for that side, and spin 'er right around! This also works great if one wheel is spinning on ice or snow, mud, leaves, etc. Just feather the brake on the spinning wheel which will send more power to the wheel with better traction.

[Bob C]

Yes the picture is from ebay. The 1928-29 service brake cross shaft went through
the lower part of the frame rail. The 1930-31 service brake cross shaft was straight
and bolted to the under side of the frame rail.

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

When you get the brakes sorted out and working well, see if you can fab up steering brakes; that is, a separate hand lever for each rear drum. Crank the steering wheel hard left (or right), grab the brake lever for that side, and spin 'er right around! This also works great if one wheel is spinning on ice or snow, mud, leaves, etc. Just feather the brake on the spinning wheel which will send more power to the wheel with better traction.

Interesting idea, will have to give that some thought!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Yes the picture is from ebay. The 1928-29 service brake cross shaft went through
the lower part of the frame rail. The 1930-31 service brake cross shaft was straight
and bolted to the under side of the frame rail.

Thanks Bob!

[Liberty Garage]

Service brake swap out;

Finally got to the rear brakes, the original setup was a real mishmash, luckily I was able to buy a worm drive rear end that had complete brakes in good condition including drums. Not shown in photos (because my hands were too greasy) was pre-packing the wheel bearing with grease, and installing the bearings, seals and retainers. I also went thru the backing plate to axle bolts from both rear ends and used the best ones, some of the ones on the tractor were just bolts that had a flat ground into the head and were not a good fit.

After pulling the old brakes off and getting the donors ready, I decided to use the original suspension arms that had been bobbed off, as they were cut with a little more care than the butchered pieces from the donor axle.

There is more work to do, there is enough now to connect up service brakes but still need to get some bushings for the emergency brake actuator arms as they are in pretty rough shape.

The main thing is to get this tractor moving and stopping on it's own and then this winter there will be plenty of time for the small details. Planning to mount the new tires Friday and then with a bit of luck the doodlebug will be driveable for the first time in several decades.

[Liberty Garage]

Drove it!

Today after wrestling with ancient split rims and mounting tires, finally got to a point where it could at least be driven out of the shop, down the driveway and a few circles around my wife!

It drove surprisingly well, there is a long punch list of issues and other items needing to be completed, but at least it's a driver now. I'm grinning!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Liberty Garage

Drove it!

Today after wrestling with ancient split rims and mounting tires, finally got to a point where it could at least be driven out of the shop, down the driveway and a few circles around my wife!

It drove surprisingly well, there is a long punch list of issues and other items needing to be completed, but at least it's a driver now. I'm grinning!

Wipe that silly grin off your face! (Just kidding. you earned it!) Perseverance pays!!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Wipe that silly grin off your face! (Just kidding. you earned it!) Perseverance pays!!

Thanks! It took a moment to even register that I was actually driving the thing. Did a few more small fixes this morning and drove again, it's a fun little rig and will only get better.

[Liberty Garage]

Wheels, brake drums, spacers, studs, nuts and other fun things;

Mounting the tires on the newly cleaned and painted wheels was easy enough, it was the prep work to try and get it done safely with really worn out old wheels that was the challenge.

Had decided to weld a bridge from one side of the split ring to the other, after the tire was mounted and ring in place. This would theoretically keep the ring from spreading apart and blowing off. In advance of this, I pre-welded one side and positioned the ring on the welding table so the gap was in closed position and once the ring was on and a SMALL amount of air in the tire, just enough to lightly push the ring in place, I then clamped it together and welded the bridge in place. Before and during the weld process I packed a wet rag in the vicinity and also dribbled water in between the ring and tire to keep it from melting. Seemed to work.

Once it was welded and cooled off, I flipped it over, covered it with cardboard and then set the loader bucket over the assembly so just the valve stem was exposed for airing up. Then aired up to 10 pounds and checked the ring, all was good and in place, touched up the paint, aired up to 20 pounds and then proceeded to put them on.

I had ASSUMED the wheels would just bolt right on, the donor drums had a set of pretty normal looking lug nuts and thought they would just slip right on, tighten up and be done. No such luck.

The drums appear to be what are called "scalloped" and the rim does not seat down flat onto the base of the studs, it seems to hang up on the face of the hub, like the center hole in the wheel is slightly too small. From reading everything I could find, there was a spacer for early 30 scalloped drums that might fill the void and allow these to tighten, it seems like you would use the dually studs and the spacer plate to make it all fit?

The part number found for the spacer plate is AA-1123-R.

Wheels are Budd C-18596-H 11-30.

Pictures are attached, one side is assembled withe just the nuts and the other side with the studs and nuts. Both sides are about 3/16 from sitting down on the face of the hub and drum. Advice? Thanks in advance!

[Liberty Garage]

Some updates;

Found the correct wheels and some brake cross shafts in Eastern Oregon, headed over to pick them up tomorrow.

Shortened the super tall bus seat-back so it wouldn't looks so dorky. Removed seat trim, padding and plywood back, sectioned the frame, migged it back together and added some gussets. Made a frame for the seat to sit in and welded it to the frame using 6.5 inch legs. All material for frame and legs came from an old bed frame sitting in the metal pile. Also built a plate underneath the seat for battery and possibly the fuel tank. Fuel tank; tank is still a question, not sure if I want to try and clean out the cowl tank or just put a tank under the seat and use a 1 psi pump, all hidden from view of course.

Added a small dash cluster to the right of center, but will need to add spacers so the gauges will be more visible. Pics attached.

[40 Deluxe]

Thanks for the update. It reminds me that "repurposed" Model A's are often more fun than original A's!

[Liberty Garage]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Thanks for the update. It reminds me that "repurposed" Model A's are often more fun than original A's!

Thanks 40! Enjoying the build, just have to find time between many other projects, we are mostly a motorcycle addicted bunch. Really looking forward to actually driving it as a parade rig or similar. =)

In other news, we are looking for a house in Baker City, on the dry side. Should be some good iron still left out there?

[Liberty Garage]

Finally got the correct wheels and brake parts home from Eastern Oregon. The wheels are in rough shape, but that's ok, we know how to make them usable.

Made new rear lower cowl to frame wood spacers to replace the rotted out ones. Made them from an old pallet as the wood in pallets is generally pretty hard. Used new 3/8 carriage bolts on these mounts. Also installed new 1/2 carriage bolts from the rear axle mounts to frame.

Cleaned engine side of firewall with acetone and was fairly pleased with the results. Have been trying to decide what to leave somewhat original and what to paint. The acetone cleaned off the ancient grime and also slightly softened the underlying paint and transferred a film to the bare areas. Firewall looks pretty good now and no plans to do anything else to that area other than replace the missing panel to panel stove bolts.

[OldTee]

Firewall cleaned up nicely!

[burner31]

Easy way for pics:
Click the "blue post reply" lower left bottom of page, when text box opens, in the top middle of the bar you will see a "paperclip" next to the smiley face, click that, a window will open "manage attachments" click "choose file" then pick your picture, after you picked up to seven pics click the top "upload" on the right hand side of the text box, wait for it to upload.
You must type something, anything into the text box message, scroll down to see "preview post" at bottom of your text box, you should see your message as it will appear when you post, if you like it click "submit reply" to post.
Just make sure the picture file is not to large