Which Shaft is Broken

[JM 35 Sedan]

Delete duplicate post

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Bill OH

If you are going to disassemble the differential to replace an axle or perhaps the coupling, I think I would strongly consider replacing the bearings, seals and gaskets, especially if the differential is original, and be done with it. And it might be a good time to use 3.54 gears. And those gears will mean changing the turtle??!!!
Sorry to learn of the problem!!!

Bill, you're talking about the difference between a three beer repair job and a complete third member rebuild.
On a side note, a tall gear ratio is not on everyone's to-do list.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Bill OH

If you are going to disassemble the differential to replace an axle or perhaps the coupling, I think I would strongly consider replacing the bearings, seals and gaskets, especially if the differential is original, and be done with it. And it might be a good time to use 3.54 gears. And those gears will mean changing the turtle??!!!
Sorry to learn of the problem!!!

I'm betting he already has 3.78 rear gears in that '41, but agree that 3.54 would be better for highway cruising. Also, if changing to 3.54, I'd suggest running with 15 tooth input, 29 tooth cluster in transmission so 1st gear is not so bogged down on take off.

I absolutely love 3.54 rear and 15/29 transmission gears in my 35 fordor.

[Bill OH]

Ford38v8: My job would probably take 24 - 12oz beers - job last longer and more satisfaction????

[alanwoodieman]

let us know the outcome of the investigation, should be a case of good beer to make it interesting, how about it?

[drolston]

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Thanks for all the feedback.
Progress Report: It is an axle, not a drive shaft. Pulled the fill plug to see if the ring gear is turning, and yes it is. I did not have to go under with a flashlight to peek into the fill hole. When I got to the rear end, lubricant was pouring onto the garage floor from the ring gear picking it up the back side of the banjo. I hope I never have to do that test again, but if I do, I will use reverse instead of low gear. Doesn't much matter which axle, since they are both the same, but I will be pulling wheels and hubs later this week. That should tell the tale.

The job will be done with the rear end under the car. First, I do not have room in the garage for the rear end. Second, I have replaced several axles that way in the distant past with good success. Mart's videos were an enormous help in refreshing my memory on the details. Thanks Mart! Third, the rear end was completely rebuilt three years ago when Joe Smith Early V8 replaced the ring and pinion with 3.25 gears (which with 284 engine are great on the highway and no problem in town). So, no need for further refurbishment.

The strain and lifting is way over my limit either in or out of the car. I will enlist the services of a stout young lad to do the wrench bending, under my supervision.

So, does a stock, early model year '41 have the 18 tooth axle, or the 16 tooth?
No luck in finding either, so far. Any suggestions on sources?

[Bill OH]

Well, your limited to three beers!!! 3.25 gears and 286 ci is a nice combination. Best Wishes on the repair.

[V8COOPMAN]

.

We've had good luck getting axles and axle housing from the Early Ford Store in San Dimas, Ca. There's no telling whether Fred Wilner at Southside Obsolete (barnfind08) may have any NOS or good used. Send him a PM. Of course, remember that everybody is at Hershey this week.
DD

[ford38v8]

The tooth count changed from 18 to 16 for the 1939 model year. All else remained the same, so you may find either in your car, as they were interchangeable together with matching spider gear. When you determine which tooth count you have, you can replace that one axle only, or if you find a set of the other tooth count, you must change both axles as well as the matching spider gear.
As you have already replaced several axles in the past, perhaps your method of installation should be reviewed, as an incorrect method will surely put your axle at risk of breaking:


Examine the keyway of the replacement axle at the inner end of that slot, and reject any axle that shows even the smallest of cracks at that location.


With a flat file, remove any burrs that you see or feel on the axle taper.


Using grinding compound on the taper, install the drum loosely, and turn by hand to seat the taper to the drum. Remove and thouroughly clean all grinding compound.


Final assembly is dry, do not use any oil or grease of any sort. Tighten the axle nut to 200 ft lbs., which is comparable to using a breaker bar with a cheater, and standing on the cheater. It needs to be as tight as possible. Cotter key in the hole and you're done.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Bill OH

Well, your limited to three beers!!! 3.25 gears and 286 ci is a nice combination. Best Wishes on the repair.

Bill, he's got a helper, so he'll need a sixpack.

[tubman]

If his helper is anything like mine, better get a couple of cases.

[drolston]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

The tooth count changed from 18 to 16 for the 1939 model year. All else remained the same, so you may find either in your car, as they were interchangeable together with matching spider gear. When you determine which tooth count you have, you can replace that one axle only, or if you find a set of the other tooth count, you must change both axles as well as the matching spider gear.
As you have already replaced several axles in the past, perhaps your method of installation should be reviewed, as an incorrect method will surely put your axle at risk of breaking:


Examine the keyway of the replacement axle at the inner end of that slot, and reject any axle that shows even the smallest of cracks at that location.


With a flat file, remove any burrs that you see or feel on the axle taper.


Using grinding compound on the taper, install the drum loosely, and turn by hand to seat the taper to the drum. Remove and thouroughly clean all grinding compound.


Final assembly is dry, do not use any oil or grease of any sort. Tighten the axle nut to 200 ft lbs., which is comparable to using a breaker bar with a cheater, and standing on the cheater. It needs to be as tight as possible. Cotter key in the hole and you're done.

Good info. Thanks.

[34fivewindow]

Originally Posted by drolston

Thanks for all the feedback.
Progress Report: It is an axle, not a drive shaft. Pulled the fill plug to see if the ring gear is turning, and yes it is. I did not have to go under with a flashlight to peek into the fill hole. When I got to the rear end, lubricant was pouring onto the garage floor from the ring gear picking it up the back side of the banjo. I hope I never have to do that test again, but if I do, I will use reverse instead of low gear. Doesn't much matter which axle, since they are both the same, but I will be pulling wheels and hubs later this week. That should tell the tale.

The job will be done with the rear end under the car. First, I do not have room in the garage for the rear end. Second, I have replaced several axles that way in the distant past with good success. Mart's videos were an enormous help in refreshing my memory on the details. Thanks Mart! Third, the rear end was completely rebuilt three years ago when Joe Smith Early V8 replaced the ring and pinion with 3.25 gears (which with 284 engine are great on the highway and no problem in town). So, no need for further refurbishment.

The strain and lifting is way over my limit either in or out of the car. I will enlist the services of a stout young lad to do the wrench bending, under my supervision.

So, does a stock, early model year '41 have the 18 tooth axle, or the 16 tooth?
No luck in finding either, so far. Any suggestions on sources?

Try All Ford, in California. they have NOS ford axles, i just installed two from them in a 40 rear end that belongs to a buddy.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

.

We've had good luck getting axles and axle housing from the Early Ford Store in San Dimas, Ca. There's no telling whether Fred Wilner at Southside Obsolete (barnfind08) may have any NOS or good used. Send him a PM. Of course, remember that everybody is at Hershey this week.
DD

I met Fred (BARNFIND08) at the Krinke auction a couple weeks ago. A stand up honest guy in my estimation.
Some bargains on parts, but not on cars or signs.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 34fivewindow

Try All Ford, in California. they have NOS ford axles, i just installed two from them in a 40 rear end that belongs to a buddy.

Yup, I'd say that they have a few axles to choose from. These guys are:

All Ford Parts
1600 Dell Ave, Suite A
Campbell , CA , 95008

Give us a Call
Toll-Free 800-532-1932
Local & Cell: 408-378-1935

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by drolston

Good info. Thanks.

One detail I forgot to mention while inspecting the replacement axle: The keyway should be sharp, no roll-overs on the edges. The key itself should always be a new key of the proper length and end taper. This is a detail that under correct conditions, should never be required to drive the drum, just a redundant safety measure. The fact that most axle failures do occur at the keyway shows that in those cases, the drums had not been installed correctly.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by drolston

Thanks for all the feedback.
Progress Report: It is an axle, not a drive shaft. Pulled the fill plug to see if the ring gear is turning, and yes it is. I did not have to go under with a flashlight to peek into the fill hole. When I got to the rear end, lubricant was pouring onto the garage floor from the ring gear picking it up the back side of the banjo. I hope I never have to do that test again, but if I do, I will use reverse instead of low gear. Doesn't much matter which axle, since they are both the same, but I will be pulling wheels and hubs later this week. That should tell the tale.

The job will be done with the rear end under the car. First, I do not have room in the garage for the rear end. Second, I have replaced several axles that way in the distant past with good success. Mart's videos were an enormous help in refreshing my memory on the details. Thanks Mart! Third, the rear end was completely rebuilt three years ago when Joe Smith Early V8 replaced the ring and pinion with 3.25 gears (which with 284 engine are great on the highway and no problem in town). So, no need for further refurbishment.

The strain and lifting is way over my limit either in or out of the car. I will enlist the services of a stout young lad to do the wrench bending, under my supervision.

So, does a stock, early model year '41 have the 18 tooth axle, or the 16 tooth?
No luck in finding either, so far. Any suggestions on sources?

Drolston, any updates??

[drolston]

Axle is on the way from All Ford. Expensive, but good to work with.
Looking for a local mechanic to do the rolling-around-on-the-floor part.
More after the job gets under way.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by drolston

Axle is on the way from All Ford. Expensive, but good to work with.
Looking for a local mechanic to do the rolling-around-on-the-floor part.
More after the job gets under way.

Thank you, I think many of us here would benefit from seeing detailed pictures of exactly what failed, as well as knowing what actually caused this failure.

[danliveshere]

I stripped a 35 Ute rear axle last year and was surprised to see a very old welded axle. It had lasted a long time but I obviously didn’t reuse it again!