battery cut out switch

[gridleak]

Any suggestions!
I am in the process of installing a cut out switch on the seat riser between ground and battery in my 29 coupe. I can't find a neat way to route the cable from the battery to switch with out drilling a bunch of holes or using a lot of cable.

[Jerry in Shasta]

I used what is called a "ratching relay", it looks like a stater solenoid. However each time power is applied it ratches to the next state,IE, to off then on, then off and so forth.

I put the switch and keep the battery cables under the floor boards. I installed the switch in the battery to frame cable.

The control switch is a momentary push button, concealed in a easy to reach location.

JB

[Lona]

I went through the same problem trying to decide where to mount the disconnect switch bought from Snyders. Wanted to mount it in the seat riser of my '31 roadster but found a lot of cutting of the pan and riser and a lot of cable was required to put it there, even though it seemed like the best hiding place for it. I ended up mounting it through the floor board between the shift lever and the seat where there is plenty of space for it and the cables from the battery ground terminal to the switch and from the switch to the frame ground. I drilled a hole through the floor large enough to accommodate the body of the switch, then installed a regular 4x4 electrical box cover plate over the hole with a smaller hold drilled it the plate the size of the switch stem. The floor mat easily hides the cover plate. The only thing showing projecting through the floor when finished is the handle of the switch. While not hidden, the handle is small but visible enough to provide a reminder to kill the battery circuit when garaging the car for the night........Glen

[clocey]

I installed one attached to my starter bolts. It is out of the way under the steering column under the hood. I misted it with a dark brown paint and it blends in well

[1931 flamingo]

clocey: The vendors have a brkt to mount it there. But for convenience many of us mount it inside so we don't have to open the hood each time we want to "kill" it. FWIW
Paul in CT There is no right or wrong location.

[mshmodela]

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Think of battery disconnect switch myself... However, I have a late 31' so lifting the hood is not an issue... Figuring somewhere on the driver's side away from the passenger fuel side of the engine.

[Mike V. Florida]

Mikes sells a kit with a switch bracket that fits on the starter bottom bolt. HERE

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

I mounted mine in my Tudor under the front edge of the driver's seat, behind the steel cross member and through the front edge of the rear wooden floorboard. I describe it at http://www.cedarcreekas.org/TechTopics/CutOffSwitch.pdf

If the switch is to be used as it should be, it needs to be in a convenient spot to operate. Under the hood is too much "out of sight, out of mind" for me. When it is needed in an emergency, you want it to be "right there" and not buried under the hood.

And the switch should be on the ground line between the frame and the ground post of the battery in order to protect the entire system.

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Mikes sells a kit with a switch bracket that fits on the starter bottom bolt. HERE

Mike V. FLA,

Thanks looks like the winning ticket for my needs...

[eagle]

I haven't done it yet but I'm going to mount a knife switch right on the starter, then off of the knife itself use a piece of brass welding rod that will come up through the floor board with a little knob on it. When you get in the car, press it down with your foot, after getting out of the car reach in and pull it up.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I believe this set up shown by Mike V. is designed to interrupt the negative terminal, I've been given to understand it would be best to interrupt the positive feed to ground which can be accomplished right near the rear side of the battery by the seat front.

[bill44]

I mounted mine in the fire wall, and used it on the positive cable. I can turn the switch with my foot and it is up out of the way. Also if you ever need to jump start the car you can attach the jumper to the switch on the fire wall instead of having to expose the battery.

[sidhartha]

I've been looking at installing the switch that Mike posted. I plan to put it on the ground side of the system and inside the car, but not sure where to mount it. Some pictures of some of your guy's setup would be great.

[JackA]

Thumb's up to #2

[KGBnut]

Long before I got my car, somebody bored some pretty big holes in the firewall. I think it was for a hot water heater. Anyway, Pop used one of those holes to mount the battery disconnect.

I never would have bored that hole myself, but it made a great mounting point...out of sight and easy reach from the driver's seat.

[Clydes 31 P/U]

sidhartha, This is where I put my cut off, out of the way but I can reach it while seated. No holes drilled in any metal, the switch is a keyed Cat master switch that I had laying around. Clyde

[gridleak]

I got mine installed and it works fine. I don't know if all As have the rectangular hole in the center of the cross member just ahead of the seat but with a couple of large washers the switch will mount there. I used the braided ground strap by spreading the braid until it fit over the switch mounting, then I cut off the original battery connector. The other end went to one terminal of the switch. this provided a ground for the switch. A 15 in.#2 cable from the parts store was just right for the lead to the positive battery terminal.
You will need to extend the switch shaft .
The only modification made to the car are 1/4 hole in floorboard and mat.

[Lona]

Photo of where I mounted my switch. See No. 3 above......Glen

[56servi]

Jerry in Shasta=> Can you give any more info on the relay use used. I like the idea of a latching relay

[Jerry in Shasta]

Do a search on Ebay Motors for ratching relay, I think they made made by Cole-Hesse. You don't have to buy on Ebay, but it will give an idea what you are looking for.

It looks very much like a 1960's starter solenoid. They cost about 50-60 dollars.

JB

[JackA]

Intellitek make excellent ones, but I think, only 12 or higher. Here is a link:

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...ers/002733.htm

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Mikes sells a kit with a switch bracket that fits on the starter bottom bolt. HERE

Ordered.... I hate fires!!! thanks Mike V. Florida

[roccaas]

Originally Posted by Jerry in Shasta

Do a search on Ebay Motors for ratching relay, I think they made made by Cole-Hesse. You don't have to buy on Ebay, but it will give an idea what you are looking for.

It looks very much like a 1960's starter solenoid. They cost about 50-60 dollars.

JB

Is this the silver device that looks like a Flux Capacitor on a 1985 DeLorean? $24 ?

[29 Tudor]

No, I don't believe that's a ratcheting relay. That looks like a common Ford starter solenoid and sells for about $15.00 at NAPA. The ratcheting relays I'm familiar with are somewhat larger than that. They are often used on RV's to connect the house batteries to the RV. I've never seen one that operated on 6 volts but they may be out there.

sd

[sidhartha]

Is it called a ratcheting relay or latching relay? A Google search finds 12 volt latching relays but nothing 6 volt.

[Ray in La Mesa]

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I mounted the lever style on the top frame member so the lever sets in the corner of the battery access hole in the floorboard,I had to notch the edge of the hole about 3/4" but it is still covered by the cover plate. Invisable but still easily accessible by lifting the floor mat.

[Dodge]

I just used one of the terminal posts ones it cost 6.99 and you just turn the green knob
to disconnect or connect it. works great.

[1931 flamingo]

Dodge: Do a search about batt cut out sw. Many have reported problems with the green knob ones. FWIW
Paul in CT

[bobpo1]

I mounted mine on the seat riser as shown in the photos. I love the location as I can turn it on when I get in the driver's seat and then shut it off as I'm getting out of the coupe. Another nice thing is that it is pretty much out-of-sight.
Hope the photos come out clear.....Good Luck....

[CooperClaude]

Bought kit from Mike's. Mounted on starter bolt . Can easily be mounted on firewall without extra wiring also. Reach under dash to use . Have a fire, you'll get one plus starter mounted 30 amp fuse. I know from sad experience.

[Bruce Adams]

I put my battery shut off switch THROUGH the fire wall so I can turn it off and on with my toe.
I set it to the hippie saying RIGHT ON so I remember which way is off and on.

[mtd1960]

Can someone post a photo of what one of the starter mounted switches looks like when mounted? Thanks

[mshmodela]

Here's mine:

[mtd1960]

Thank you. Picture helps alot

[Tom Wesenberg]

At the Studebaker show and swap yesterday someone had a cutoff switch built as a knife switch. I always thought if you use a master cutoff switch this would be the best style, but I didn't know anyone makes and sells them. This was a manufactured part that mounted right on the battery post.

[1931 flamingo]

I've seen that type before Tom. Older redone shoebox Ford, may be old school.
Paul in CT

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

At the Studebaker show and swap yesterday someone had a cutoff switch built as a knife switch. I always thought if you use a master cutoff switch this would be the best style, but I didn't know anyone makes and sells them. This was a manufactured part that mounted right on the battery post.

look what i have here

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by bruce adams

i put my battery shut off switch through the fire wall so i can turn it off and on with my toe.
I set it to the hippie saying right on so i remember which way is off and on.

lol !

[Super88]

My local Autozone carries the knife type switch and they have them listed online for $24.99.

[tiger.1000]

Mitch and Super.....that's a bit clumsy and besides are we now going to get into the debate about pot-metal (Mazak) castings; or......are they solid brass? Be interesting to know....

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: Bought a heavy duty Marine Cylindrical Disconnect Switch about the same size as the heavy duty vendors' lever type cylindrical disconnect switch offered; except, for a slight bit of additional theft protection, it has a keyed switch with a removable key.

It is mounted with (2) thru-bolts through a piece of wood neatly fitted in the oblong steel cross member's opening immediately behind the battery, with a thin metal plate above & accessed through a round hole cut through the plywood floor board under the floor carpet.

No holes were drilled through body sheet metal & no holes were drilled through the Model A's steel chassis' frame.

For a bit of additional theft protection, the top of the key, when inserted in the switch, is flush with the top of the plywood floor board, so the carpet above when laying flat, conceals both the inserted and/or non-inserted key & the disconnect switch. Also, sliding feet on the floor board upon entering or exiting the vehicle never hit a protruding part of the concealed switch or key.

The switch, like that always recommended for Marine Safety applications, interrupts the battery's ground cable.

It was only used often when totally rewiring the entire vehicle with all new wiring, & it is intended to be used only when the vehicle is not in a locked, secure garage and/or left parked unattended like at a restaurant and/or parked unattended overnight at a motel.

Hope this helps.

[Hoogah]

I used a pre-existing hole in the firewall that a previous owner had used to install a foot-operated dip switch (go figure!). The part of the switch that protrudes into the cabin is black plastic, but you can't really tell unless you get right down there! It has removable key which means I don't really have to conceal the switch for security purposes. The switch cost about $30. Re-routing the cable to this position was not difficult and didn't use excessive length of cable. The key looks like it's too close to the starter switch, but that changes when it's in the ON position (rotated 90 degrees clockwise). This is a RHD '28 phaeton.
Pardon my paint (or lack thereof!!)

[Tom in SW VA]

Mine in mounted on the motor mount on the driver's side. It was installed when I purchased the car. It is a toggle switch.

[MikeK]

What concerns me about those battery post open knife switches is the size of the post they are made to fit. The Positive and Negative posts are different sizes, so those devices only fit one of the two correctly. WHICH ONE? I would never put a cutoff switch on the "hot", only the ground lead.

[Super88]

I agree tiger.1000 and this is not what I plan on using, but was just offering the info for those that might be interested in this type. I haven't looked closely yet, but I will place my switch where it can easily be reached from the driver's seat for speed and ease of use.

[ThosD]

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Resurrecting this thread. I recently purchased a cut out package as described above that provides a mounting bracket that attaches to the starter. All current from the battery is routed from the negative terminal and through the fuse on the starter. It seems that breaking the current path at this location removes the battery from all electrical components of the car. How is this less safe than breaking the circuit at the ground strap that connects the positive post to the chassis? However, I would prefer to mount the cut out switch inside the cab and breaking the ground strap would be more convenient.

[bbrocksr]

Do the ground cable and mount it by the drivers seat. If you put it in the hot cable everything before the switch is still hot.
Bill

[ThosD]

Bbrocksr
Thanks you for the reply. I may be over thinking and confusing myself.

Respectfully, I still have questions. If the negative post is not connected to anything, no current will flow through the battery; yes? Connecting the chassis to an earth ground (touching the car while standing in a puddle of water) while there is a break in the hot cable will not cause a current flow through the battery; yes or no? Ford fused the hot side, not the ground side. Why not switch the same side of the circuit that Ford fused?

[ThosD]

I got this reply from another forum:

Standards over the years migrated to never disconnecting “ground” for safety & consistency, and not just in car batteries.


Some reasons:
The idea/message of disconnecting power source at the “0V” side is counter-intuitive, and in some cases dangerous.
ex: is disconnect connector fully insulated (since some parts are always live)? 0V connections are seldom insulated, while power i.e. 12V or 6V usually are.
Newer systems cover the “hot” terminals.


Ground leads are often physically harder to connect to in some cases- i.e. braid, straps, metal rods or in a tight space, vs. insulated wire coming off the “hot” side, to a switch that can be located elsewhere (with insulated connector cover)


Not saying a model A has any of those situations.


Motorhomes using multiple +12V batteries for vehicle starting, house or other aux battery banks always disconnect +, usually with a big knife switch. Some are more sophisticated and have shared power mgmt between all.

[bbrocksr]

What happens if you strike you wrench while disconnecting the hot cable?
What happens if you strike your wrench while disconnecting the ground cable?
With the ground disconnected nothing is hot. If you put the switch in the hot cable everything before the switch is hot.
Bill

[Brentwood Bob]

Good to avoid sparks.

[Bruce of MN]

I don’t believe that Ford had any fuses in the Model A.

Originally Posted by ThosD

Bbrocksr
Thanks you for the reply. I may be over thinking and confusing myself.

Respectfully, I still have questions. If the negative post is not connected to anything, no current will flow through the battery; yes? Connecting the chassis to an earth ground (touching the car while standing in a puddle of water) while there is a break in the hot cable will not cause a current flow through the battery; yes or no? Ford fused the hot side, not the ground side. Why not switch the same side of the circuit that Ford fused?

[ThosD]

Disconnecting a battery is a different concern. If the cable from the negative post of the battery to the fuse is disconnected, every thing on the car is at the same potential as ground. If the live end of the hot cable is contained inside of a switch body, no contact will accidentally be made. Sparks only occur when completing a path that connects the negative and positive battery posts.
To the best of my understanding, placing the cut out switch on either battery cable will create a desired and safe arrangement if the cable is well insulated. Just be careful when disconnecting the battery.
For my installation, I will be using insulated cables on the ground terminal because I want to access the cutout switch from inside the cab, on the seat riser.

Thanks for chatting, folks.

[bob from red oak]

when i bought my A it had one mounted on fire wall on the left side of the steering column. It has worked fine as I open the door and turn the switch before I get in the car and turn it off after I get out. Not that inconvenient.

[ThosD]

Originally Posted by Bruce of MN

I don’t believe that Ford had any fuses in the Model A.

Thanks for the clarification. The aftermarket fuse on top of the starter looks like a factory item on my car. It appears that this was an early common mod for the A.

People create sparks when working around the unprotected hot terminal that is on the starter. Wrench or screw driver touches the hot terminal and the engine block or control rod or any other part of the car and a spark is created; like a spark plug. When working on or around the electrical parts of the car, the battery should be disconnected at the ground first. Because all body parts are also at ground voltage, no sparking occurs when a tool bridges the the ground terminal of the battery and other grounded items.
Since it's a pain in the neck to access the battery ground strap, a cut out switch mounted on the ground cable provides an easy to reach switch for safely working on the A as well as saving the battery when parked.
Tom

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Mikes sells a kit with a switch bracket that fits on the starter bottom bolt. HERE

i may have to go this route - really dont want to make holes in a very very nice 28-m30 cab i have and theres no real good way to mount it without getting in the way of the already cramped foot space with the AA dual high down there too.