Synder's 12v Starter Review

[PC/SR]

About a month ago I had issues with a 12v starter with an odd wiring pattern that was knocking loose the ring gear. Rather that re-wiring the starter, I bought Snyders purpose built 12v starter, catalog # A-10025-S.
This is a neat unit. It has a high speed motor with a gear reduction that impacts and rotates the engine at about stock 6v speed. The engaging gear is fixed in place at the end of the shaft. The shaft is spring loaded and the gear engages from the front of the flywheel when rotation starts, rather than from the rear as does the stock set up. There is no bendix or other type of attachment on the shaft except the engaging gear.
With the front engagement I wondered if the ring gear should be reversed so the bevel was to the front, but the person I spoke with at Snyders said that was not necessary and that he used it in his A with the ring gear in stock position with the bevel toward the rear. I have no problems with it either, but I think if starting from scratch I would put the ring gear bevel to the front. (I already had the new ring gear installed and pinned when I got the starter and really did not want to change the ring gear and re-balance the flywheel.)
It is definitely not stock looking, and spins with a whirrrrr sound, but is a very nice set up.

[Bob C]

On the ones I have seen the teeth on the starter gear are cut on a bevel.

Bob

[Russ/40]

When I put my chassis together, the ring gear on the flywheel had no bevel front or back. I haven't seen any negative consequences of it being that way. Perhaps longevity will be a problem. Is the bevel issue overstated, or really that important?

[Willie Krash]

It sounds like a Nippon/Denso starter. Mostly used on Toyota's etc...(I couldn't run that number on their site but they do sell a N/D). This may will be the best starter on the planet and you can fix them yourself. The only weakness they have is after a while they will click on you and an easy remedy. I doubt you can drive a Model A enough to get there tho'.

[MikeK]

There are two general types of starter pinion engagement:

1) Inertia:
Bendix and Barrel drives, which present a turning pinion to the ring gear.

2) Solenoid engagement:
Many GM and all the gear drive starters. The pinion must mesh by being driven straight forward by the solenoid before the motor is powered by the solenoid contacts.

With the second type, it is possible to occasionally hit flat on the ring, preventing engagement and the motor does not turn on. Not having an engagement bevel on BOTH gears increases this possibility. If you have an automatic tranny, you're stuck. With a stick, just put it in gear and rock the car to move the flywheel to another position.

The first type engage well and reliably with little or no bevel on one gear, as the motor is already turning and single dead-spot engagement failure is not possible. The disadvantage is the ring gear gets chewed up much quicker than with a solenoid starter.

[CarlG]

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Originally Posted by PC/SR

About a month ago...I bought Snyders purpose built 12v starter, catalog # A-10025-S...

Couldn't find this part # in Snyder's on-line catalog. They do show this as Part # A-11002-X12. Is this the one you are referring to?

[PC/SR]

Carl G: That is the unit. I gave the wrong part #.

[Pete]

Here's a pic of a gear drive starter mounted on the right side. It's the same deal for the left side.
It's best if the gear bevels are face to face but it will work either way.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Pete

Here's a pic of a gear drive starter mounted on the right side. It's the same deal for the left side.
It's best if the gear bevels are face to face but it will work either way.

I have never used one of these starters but have always wondered about the teeth beveling on the ring gear. Would installing a new ring "backwards" correct this??

[Purdy Swoft]

The two main problems that I see with Snyders new starter is it doesn't look right and the $275.00 price. Original starters are plentifull and very robust. In other words you've got to try pretty hard to tear one up and if you do they are pretty simple to repair. I've bought good useable used starters for as low as ten dollars at swap meets.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The two main problems that I see with Snyders new starter is it doesn't look right and the $275.00 price. Original starters are plentifull and very robust. In other words you've got to try pretty hard to tear one up and if you do they are pretty simple to repair. I've bought good useable used starters for as low as ten dollars at swap meets.

You possibly are overlooking one key point in that you do not have a fear of disassembling a starter and repairing it. There are more like you on this forum however we are the minority as far as the entire Model-A community is concerned. Most do not have the desire, the patience, nor the time necessary to repair/rebuild/restore a starter. It is easier for them to order what is perceived to be the best. Afterall, it is modern engineering and they just want to have a restored Model-A 'Driver' that is reliable!!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The two main problems that I see with Snyders new starter is it doesn't look right and the $275.00 price. Original starters are plentifull and very robust. In other words you've got to try pretty hard to tear one up and if you do they are pretty simple to repair. I've bought good useable used starters for as low as ten dollars at swap meets.

I second that. In fact, speaking of used starter being robust, the 1930 original starter , slightly cleaned/PM, is still in my roadster and has started the warmed up B (with 12V) quickly...for 10+ years. Talk Ford tough !

[Pete]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I have never used one of these starters but have always wondered about the teeth beveling on the ring gear. Would installing a new ring "backwards" correct this??

I have seen installations with starter gear to the straight side of flywheel gear teeth and it had been working fine for a long time. Neither gear showed excessive wear.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

I second that. In fact, speaking of used starter being robust, the 1930 original starter , slightly cleaned/PM, is still in my roadster and has started the warmed up B (with 12V) quickly...for 10+ years. Talk Ford tough !

I've had good luck with original starters and run an original six volt on twelve volt in my roadster.

The only time that I messed up a model A starter was when I was going to replace the field brushes. The field brushes are bronze and usually last a lifetime. I would have been good to go if I had only replaced the carbon ground brushes. The field brush connection to the field coil strips couldn't be removed with a common electric soldering gun. It wasn't possible to use a propane torch without burning the insulation off the field coils. I bent the field strips to get clearance for using the torch. After bending the strips, I never was able to get them back in place.. The feild brushes really didn't even need replacement. Sometimes, in trying to do a really good job we can go too far. I'll replace the field coils in a generator if needed. If I've got to replace the field brushes or field coils in a starter, the housing goes in the core pile and I start over.

[Pat Martone]

A point of information. About 2 years ago, after converting to 12 volts, I decided to get a Snyder's rebuilt 12v starter (part number A-11002-12; about $190), which looks original (because the body is original) and costs a lot less than the $275 gear reduced starter (part number A-11002-X12) that is mentioned in this thread. So far, my unit has performed well, and it mounted easily and looks stock.

[machine girl]

We have run stock 6 volt starters on 12 volts for years, never had a problem.(these were always good rebuilt starters)

[aojo]

So if one uses a gear reduction starter it is activated by a start button on the dash?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by aojo

So if one uses a gear reduction starter it is activated by a start button on the dash?

It can be.
Some have it on the key like modern cars.

[Chris Haynes]

Years ago I had a rebuilder convert a starter to 12 volts.

[lee in bend]

I had a 6V starter converted to 12V and it seems to work pretty well. My problem is I have "stuck/welded" two or three starter switches. Apparently the new replacement switches are not as robust as the originals.