The Ford Barn

5851a · 02-13-2016, 10:38 AM

If you switch from the 4.27 to the 3.92 you only drop around 230 RPM for the same speed.

millerliteliker · 02-13-2016, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5851a

If you switch from the 4.27 to the 3.92 you only drop around 230 RPM for the same speed.

I am going down to 3.54. I think that should make a noticeable difference.

rotorwrench · 02-13-2016, 11:01 AM

Just a heads up, I went to the link and checked the info on that R&P set. It should have more info on there than it has. The smaller ring gears were generally set up on a smaller diameter carrier by Dana Spicer. I would want to know what diameter carrier that R&P set was made to fit (bolt circle diameter). If it is the smaller carrier, you would have to purchase one from Randy's R&P since I know of no other "New" part source but they are for Dana 44 and may not work in the 41. It may be made to fit the 3.73:1 carrier that is smaller than the 4.27:1 ratio carrier in the Dana 44 but I don't know about the Dana 41. The ring gear just has to be measured for the bolt circle diameter.

Ross F-1 · 02-13-2016, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Just a heads up, I went to the link and checked the info on that R&P set. It should have more info on there than it has. The smaller ring gears were generally set up on a smaller diameter carrier by Dana Spicer. I would want to know what diameter carrier that R&P set was made to fit (bolt circle diameter). If it is the smaller carrier, you would have to purchase one from Randy's R&P since I know of no other "New" part source but they are for Dana 44 and may not work in the 41. It may be made to fit the 3.73:1 carrier that is smaller than the 4.27:1 ratio carrier in the Dana 44 but I don't know about the Dana 41. The ring gear just has to be measured for the bolt circle diameter.

Can't say about the D41 being able to use the D44 carrier, I THINK it will work. I don't know if the ring gear bolt circle diameter varies with carriers, but it would make sense.

Here's the difference in Above and Below the 3.73 split on all D4x carriers

JSeery · 02-13-2016, 11:46 AM

You would most likely be better off changing out the whole rear end.

rotorwrench · 02-13-2016, 03:30 PM

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I checked my parts books and the truck book was not much help. The Mercury book was more specific however. You might be good to go according to it and the P/N in the truck book. The divining line was on the 4.55:1 ratio for the D41. The 3.73, 3.91, & 4.27:1 ratios all used the same carrier P/N 8M-4205-A when checking against the Mercury part numbers and the truck part numbers. The rear cover on the D41 was made for small carriers and the D44 rear cover was made for the larger ones. The Mercury cars, Ford wagons, Ford police cars, Ford sedan deliveries, and the F1 commercials all used the heavier Dana Spicer rear axles. The D44 was just a little more heavy duty than the D41 but shares a lot of internal parts. The case for the D44 is just a tiny bit bigger to accommodate more ratios. The Lincoln cars used an even heavier version of the Dana but they are very hard to find parts for.

With a pickup, I would prefer the 3.73:1 R&P so you could still easily pull a load. The taller gears will make it more difficult to do that. If you aren't planning on pulling a trailer or load the bed up very much, you might be OK.

millerliteliker · 02-13-2016, 05:24 PM

I called Early Ford V8 before I ordered to make sure they would fit. They assured me that they would fit the Dana 41 with the 4.27 ratio. These guys have these made in Europe and are the only place that I know of that you can get these gears.

I don't intend the haul anything of any weight and I just wanted a low rpm at 65-70 mph.

49r · 05-08-2017, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millerliteliker

I called Early Ford V8 before I ordered to make sure they would fit. They assured me that they would fit the Dana 41 with the 4.27 ratio. These guys have these made in Europe and are the only place that I know of that you can get these gears.

I don't intend the haul anything of any weight and I just wanted a low rpm at 65-70 mph.

Just wondering how you got on fitting this 3.54 gearing (8C-4209-HS) to your Dana 41? Did the new crown wheel fit the exiting carrier? Any installation issues?
I have a Dana 41 that I am interested in changing to this gearing.
I see Early Ford V8 sales also have a ring and pinion installation kit (8C-4200-KIT) for the Dana 41. I haven't found anywhere else that offers parts for the Dana 44.

FortyNiner · 05-09-2017, 07:08 AM

Take a look at the offerings from Randy's: https://www.ringpinion.com

willowbilly3 · 05-09-2017, 08:06 AM

I'd be interested to know how you got along setting it up. I've done quite a few Dana's and a few of them set right up with the old shims. Most needed shimmed for the correct contact pattern and that has it's own procedure which normally requires changing shimming under the bearings. I actually have the Snap-on puller set just for the carrier bearings but it doesn't have much to grab on and will generally destroy the shims. The easiest way is a set of sacrificial bearings (for the set up only) with this inside ground out a little so they easily slide on and off.
Also you have to shim in the bearing preload. I never had a case spreader, just wonked the carrier in with a big dead blow. But that method requires a feel only attained by experience.
Pinion preload is set with an inch/pound torque wrench

corvette8n · 05-09-2017, 08:46 AM

That is one clean/nice looking truck, how did you make out with yor ring gear swap?

Dick Webber · 05-09-2017, 09:42 AM

9=1949 or 50
H=6 cylinder 226
C=half ton

I had a 4.27 in mine. Got lucky and found a 3.73?from a 56 automatic F-100. Seems to be just right.

49r · 05-09-2017, 02:48 PM

In my earlier post that should have been 'I haven't been able to find parts for the Dana 41'. Thanks for the link to Randy's who has parts for the Dana 44.
I currently have a 3.73 Dana 44 from a '56 F100 in my '49 F1, but would like to put back my original Dana 41. I'm up for a set of tyres soon and am thinking of changing from my current 6:50-16 to 6:00-16. The 3.54 crown wheel and pinion (assuming it can all be made to work in the Dana 41) should keep the RPM in about the same place.

JSeery · 05-09-2017, 03:08 PM

That's what I was going to suggest, wouldn't be easier to just change tire size?

49r · 05-09-2017, 07:04 PM

Smaller tyres mean higher engine RPM and a 3.54 diff lower RPM, therefore compensation for smaller tyres.

Ross F-1 · 05-09-2017, 07:25 PM

Pretty hard to get a 10% difference in tire diameter, unless you want modern "rubber band" tires.

JSeery · 05-09-2017, 08:17 PM

If anyone is interested:

RPM = (MPH X GR X 336) / Tire Dia

TD / RPM (using 3.73 GR & 65 MPH)
26 3,108
28 2,886
30 2,694
32 2,525
34 2,377
36 2,245

And

GR / RPM (30 inch Tire Size & 65 MPH)
4.27 3,109
3.73 2,715
3.54 2,577

Art Newland · 05-09-2017, 08:53 PM

I've only had my F1 for 3 months, but one of the things I noticed right away was the 9 inch diff. Anyone's that's been around any hot rods has seen a 9 inch! Mine has 3.70 ratio tag on it and by the way it drives I'd say that's correct. It has the non-syncro 4-speed and takes considerable clutch slipping to get her rolling while starting off in second. I don't think I'd want the ratio any higher. In looking around at it's install, it looks like it belongs there and I don't see any DIY hacking.

Art Newland · 05-09-2017, 09:00 PM

BTW, my truck has 15 inch/P235/75 radials on it. It looks maybe lowered a bit? Maybe it's just the smaller wheels?

02-13-2016, 10:38 AM	#21
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,664	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question If you switch from the 4.27 to the 3.92 you only drop around 230 RPM for the same speed.

02-13-2016, 11:01 AM	#23
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question Just a heads up, I went to the link and checked the info on that R&P set. It should have more info on there than it has. The smaller ring gears were generally set up on a smaller diameter carrier by Dana Spicer. I would want to know what diameter carrier that R&P set was made to fit (bolt circle diameter). If it is the smaller carrier, you would have to purchase one from Randy's R&P since I know of no other "New" part source but they are for Dana 44 and may not work in the 41. It may be made to fit the 3.73:1 carrier that is smaller than the 4.27:1 ratio carrier in the Dana 44 but I don't know about the Dana 41. The ring gear just has to be measured for the bolt circle diameter. Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-13-2016 at 11:07 AM.

02-13-2016, 11:46 AM	#25
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question You would most likely be better off changing out the whole rear end.

02-13-2016, 03:30 PM	#26
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I checked my parts books and the truck book was not much help. The Mercury book was more specific however. You might be good to go according to it and the P/N in the truck book. The divining line was on the 4.55:1 ratio for the D41. The 3.73, 3.91, & 4.27:1 ratios all used the same carrier P/N 8M-4205-A when checking against the Mercury part numbers and the truck part numbers. The rear cover on the D41 was made for small carriers and the D44 rear cover was made for the larger ones. The Mercury cars, Ford wagons, Ford police cars, Ford sedan deliveries, and the F1 commercials all used the heavier Dana Spicer rear axles. The D44 was just a little more heavy duty than the D41 but shares a lot of internal parts. The case for the D44 is just a tiny bit bigger to accommodate more ratios. The Lincoln cars used an even heavier version of the Dana but they are very hard to find parts for. With a pickup, I would prefer the 3.73:1 R&P so you could still easily pull a load. The taller gears will make it more difficult to do that. If you aren't planning on pulling a trailer or load the bed up very much, you might be OK. Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-13-2016 at 03:38 PM.

02-13-2016, 05:24 PM	#27
millerliteliker Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 13	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question I called Early Ford V8 before I ordered to make sure they would fit. They assured me that they would fit the Dana 41 with the 4.27 ratio. These guys have these made in Europe and are the only place that I know of that you can get these gears. I don't intend the haul anything of any weight and I just wanted a low rpm at 65-70 mph.

05-09-2017, 07:08 AM	#29
FortyNiner Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: u-rah-rah-Wisconsin Posts: 1,136	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question Take a look at the offerings from Randy's: https://www.ringpinion.com __________________ 19 and 49 F1 - jes' like Henry II built 1946 Deluxe - as Henry built it

05-09-2017, 08:06 AM	#30
willowbilly3 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Posts: 577	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question I'd be interested to know how you got along setting it up. I've done quite a few Dana's and a few of them set right up with the old shims. Most needed shimmed for the correct contact pattern and that has it's own procedure which normally requires changing shimming under the bearings. I actually have the Snap-on puller set just for the carrier bearings but it doesn't have much to grab on and will generally destroy the shims. The easiest way is a set of sacrificial bearings (for the set up only) with this inside ground out a little so they easily slide on and off. Also you have to shim in the bearing preload. I never had a case spreader, just wonked the carrier in with a big dead blow. But that method requires a feel only attained by experience. Pinion preload is set with an inch/pound torque wrench

05-09-2017, 08:46 AM	#31
corvette8n Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: 36 miles north of Albany NY Posts: 2,946	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question That is one clean/nice looking truck, how did you make out with yor ring gear swap?

05-09-2017, 09:42 AM	#32
Dick Webber Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bowling Green KY Posts: 337	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question 9=1949 or 50 H=6 cylinder 226 C=half ton I had a 4.27 in mine. Got lucky and found a 3.73?from a 56 automatic F-100. Seems to be just right.

05-09-2017, 02:48 PM	#33
49r Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wellington New Zealand Posts: 308	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question In my earlier post that should have been 'I haven't been able to find parts for the Dana 41'. Thanks for the link to Randy's who has parts for the Dana 44. I currently have a 3.73 Dana 44 from a '56 F100 in my '49 F1, but would like to put back my original Dana 41. I'm up for a set of tyres soon and am thinking of changing from my current 6:50-16 to 6:00-16. The 3.54 crown wheel and pinion (assuming it can all be made to work in the Dana 41) should keep the RPM in about the same place.

05-09-2017, 03:08 PM	#34
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question That's what I was going to suggest, wouldn't be easier to just change tire size?

05-09-2017, 07:04 PM	#35
49r Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wellington New Zealand Posts: 308	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question Smaller tyres mean higher engine RPM and a 3.54 diff lower RPM, therefore compensation for smaller tyres.

05-09-2017, 07:25 PM	#36
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question Pretty hard to get a 10% difference in tire diameter, unless you want modern "rubber band" tires. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

05-09-2017, 08:17 PM	#37
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1949 Ford F1 question If anyone is interested: RPM = (MPH X GR X 336) / Tire Dia TD / RPM (using 3.73 GR & 65 MPH) 26 3,108 28 2,886 30 2,694 32 2,525 34 2,377 36 2,245 And GR / RPM (30 inch Tire Size & 65 MPH) 4.27 3,109 3.73 2,715 3.54 2,577 Last edited by JSeery; 05-09-2017 at 08:28 PM.