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Old 02-10-2021, 10:36 PM   #1
Will D
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Default Engine removal '38 deluxe

Found brass and silver looking metal flecks, bits and pieces in my engine oil. Cut open the oil filter and found more

Pulling it out for a good look inside but I've never pulled a flatty before; only automatic front wheel drive engines. I've done a couple searches here and ev8 website and come up with some info but still some uncertainty. I'm going to leave the trans in the car and pull just the engine. The trans is original to the car but the engine is a '45 c59a.

Couple questions:

1. Is the trans only affixed to the engine by the bolts thru the belhousing?

2. Do I need to remove the starter before pulling?

3. Is it best to remove the manifolds from the block first or leave on and just disconnect exhaust pipe?(stock exhaust) i realize this question may be a matter of opinion but all are welcome.

4. Do I need to mess with clutch linkage at all?

Remove radiator, horns, disconnect any wiring/fuel/sending units, support front end of trans, undo bellhousing bolts, loosen trans mounts, undo front engine mounts, anti chatter bars, detach exhaust.... should slip right out?

5. In theory if I pay attention to cam slot position for distributor it should slip back in onto the input shaft upon reinstalling?
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

never done a 38, but i'll take a poke at it. 1, yes trans bolts just around the bell and she's loose 2, the starter will come with it, but needs to come off anyway , so take it off, its lighter, and one less thing in the way banging into stuff. one oil pan bolt on the pad near the starter too when you get to that point. 3 if you're exhaust is in good shape like it will come apart, then take it off. again, less stuff bulging out to get caught and make you angry! 4 clutch linkage can just stay put, but will need adjustment after rebuild, so i would pull the pin so the linkage is free to move. 5, distributor slot is off center so it can only go back on in the correct location if you pay attention and feel it set down flush before cranking the bolts tight. its easy, but some folks have forced it on and broke stuff. sorry for the dilemma, get her back on the road! opps!!! steady rods too have to come off

Last edited by cas3; 02-10-2021 at 11:30 PM. Reason: to add more
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Old 02-11-2021, 04:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

.

...........and get that radiator out of there! It'll give you way more room, plus there's no chance of banging it with the engine and damaging it. THAT would piss ya off BIGLY! You'll need to remove the two radiator to firewall rods anyway. I'd put just a little tension (floor jack) under the forward end of trans just to keep the tension off of the input shaft as you slide the engine forward and away from the trans. Then, if it makes ya feel good, you can lay a metal bar/Uni-strut across the X-frame rails just in front of trans. Drill a couple of holes in the bar and run chunk of chain UNDER input shaft to support it, keeping a big load off of the u-joint and it's center bolt. Sorry to hear about the bad gri-gri in the oil!! DD
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

excuse my cabin fever; the hard part drain coolant without gettin soaked, take hood off
now those nasty exhaust pipes, sometimes its easier to unbolt manifolds & just let it hang.
wires and all that simple stuff marked and disconnected, remove front motor mount bolts,
raise engine up then a jack under the transmission then all bolts from bell housing. starter can stay clutch stuff can stay now wiggle engine or pry bar- ing at the bell house. and just slide her out. time spent radiator out drain coolant hood off wires said and done 20min. If you can do a front wheel drive this is a walk in the park.
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Old 02-11-2021, 01:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

To make things easier, the hood should come off. You will need a hoist. The collapsible type from Pep Boys or Harbor Freight work fine, and are not that expensive, They have long frame legs that roll under the front axel. It is a tight fit under the axel; I have smaller tires in front, so I had to pump the tires up to 50 lb to get clearance.

Then you need to hook to to the engine. If you remove the intake manifold, there are lift plates that bolt onto intake manifold bolt holes. It is a big help to have a leveler on the hoist that allows you to crank the attach point back and forth to adjust the angle at which the engine hangs. The leveler has front and back chains which you can bolt directly to front and rear intake manifold bolt holes. Extremely handy, especially when you go to put the engine back in and have to get the engine on the same plane as the transmission front shaft. Also, not expensive.
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Old 02-11-2021, 04:01 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I've got the intake off already so will make a plate to lift it.

Radiator - yes Coopman, I'm a pro at that one now after pulling it for re-core then again because the overfill tube was damaged during re-core. Made a lovely mess of the engine bay as it was a small crack where it connects to the fill neck.

To clarify my #5. When the motor goes back in, if the camshaft is in the same position as removal gauging by the distributor slot; it should be all lined up for the transmission input shaft to slip back in?


Quote:
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If you can do a front wheel drive this is a walk in the park.
Want a good story? Blew a rod out of the block on my daily driver (nissan sentra-no I'm not proud of it ). Replaced the engine, week later had to replace the trans. Couple months later burnt #1 exhaust valve in #4 cylinder. Ripped it all apart and fixed. 6months later burnt #2 exhaust valve in #4 cylinder. Just got it all back together last weekend. Im still smilin' tho the joys of life!
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Old 02-11-2021, 04:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

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Thanks for all the tips guys. I've got the intake off already so will make a plate to lift it.

Radiator - yes Coopman, I'm a pro at that one now after pulling it for re-core then again because the overfill tube was damaged during re-core. Made a lovely mess of the engine bay as it was a small crack where it connects to the fill neck.

To clarify my #5. When the motor goes back in, if the camshaft is in the same position as removal gauging by the distributor slot; it should be all lined up for the transmission input shaft to slip back in?
Hey Will.....The transmission INPUT shaft does NOT need to be indexed to any particular engine position. If you think about it, that relationship changes every time you release the clutch. You've got it covered! Bundle-up, 'cuz it's gonna get nippy! DD
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Old 02-11-2021, 04:48 PM   #8
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Hey Will.....The transmission INPUT shaft does NOT need to be indexed to any particular engine position. If you think about it, that relationship changes every time you release the clutch. You've got it covered! Bundle-up, 'cuz it's gonna get nippy! DD
Thanks DD, I'm still a work in progress. Got a heated garage at least. We are at -4 F this week!
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

Its a lot easier to go out or in on 37,38 and 39 std by removing the water pumps to pull and putting them back on when the engine is back in.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:08 PM   #10
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Its a lot easier to go out or in on 37,38 and 39 std by removing the water pumps to pull and putting them back on when the engine is back in.
Good point. As the engine comes forward it looks like they might hit or get real tight as the nose tapers on the engine bay.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

>>>might hit or get real tight as the nose tapers>>>


Take the nose off. You'll be glad you did. Jack E/NJ
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

.

You take that nose off and you won't be speaking very nicely about the guy that suggested that, especially when you realize how tremendously difficult it is to re-align (PROPERLY and PRECISELY) all of that sheet metal....hood, fenders, inners and grill, not to forget the radiator and rods on a '38. I WOULDN'T do it!! DD
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Old 02-11-2021, 07:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

I took a motor out of a '38 for a rebuild some years ago. I found it much easier to remove the grill and take it out through the front. Left transmission in the car. I did remove the floorboards to make access to the trans bolts, etc.
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Old 02-11-2021, 07:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

I removed/installed the engine in my '38 Deluxe with the transmission attached. I just removed the grill (and radiator) and had no problem with getting it aligned.
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Old 02-11-2021, 08:11 PM   #15
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I removed/installed the engine in my '38 Deluxe with the transmission attached. I just removed the grill (and radiator) and had no problem with getting it aligned.
Grill & hood.....YEAH! The whole "nose" (which I read to mean fenders & everything forward of firewall) ....heck NO! DD
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

I have pulled the engine on a 38 and removed the hood, although you could support it straight up and did not remove the grill - removed the radiator. I made a lift hook that is a piece of angle iron that drops into the valve galley and long enough to extend just past the intake ports and welded 1” pieces of rod at each end of the angle iron to catch between a pair of intake ports to prevent it from sliding out and welded a U bolt to the upper edge of the angle iron. Easy to insert with the manifold removed and connect to the lift.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

Got on it this afternoon, started disconnecting things and getting ready to lift er out. I've got to wait til Tuesday to get a hoist so the plan was to just prep for that. Ended up having too much fun, so the exhaust manifolds came off, starter, then the heads.

Ended up discovering why my compression was low in #2 cylinder. But also found quite the detail in #3 cylinder wall. Any ideas as to what would have caused that??

From what I can tell its all stock and original aside from a valve job in its past. No liners but a minor valve relief job. Not sure if that may be factory, it looks pretty consistent/machined and think I read somewhere, something about some canadian blocks being factory relieved. Can't remember for certain. Thinking I will discover the bearings are the cause of the metal shavings in the bottom end. Will see once I get it out.











Any ideas what would or could have caused this in #3 Cylinder?
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Old 02-14-2021, 02:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

One thing I do on our 33 is to loosen the two rear trans engine mounting bolts so when you pivot up the front of the trans to get the. engine out you dont stress the mount.
and when you put the engine back in, make up a couple of 3 inch long 3/8 unc bolts with the heads cut off , and screw them into the eng to line up the trans .
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

I'm just wondering, how did it run?
What I'm getting at, if you hadn't found the metal particles, and were oblivious to the imperfections in the bores would you have been happy to run it like it is?

The bore No.2, while not ideal, is not untypical of some flattys reawoken after long years of sitting.

The marks on No3 cylinder might be associated with a loose or missing pin circlip. (if fore and aft in the bore).

Are you planning a full rebuild, or a repair what's broke rebuild?

A rebore to the first cleanup size would be preferential.

I wonder what the bottom end will reveal. Watching with interest.

Oh it's not the same, but I did pull the motor on a 40 with the hood still in place. I tied it back higher than normal though.

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Old 02-14-2021, 10:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Engine removal '38 deluxe

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I'm just wondering, how did it run?
What I'm getting at, if you hadn't found the metal particles, and were oblivious to the imperfections in the bores would you have been happy to run it like it is?

The bore No.2, while not ideal, is not untypical of some flattys reawoken after long years of sitting.

The marks on No3 cylinder might be associated with a loose or missing pin circlip. (if fore and aft in the bore).

Are you planning a full rebuild, or a repair what's broke rebuild?

A rebore to the first cleanup size would be preferential.

I wonder what the bottom end will reveal. Watching with interest.

Oh it's not the same, but I did pull the motor on a 40 with the hood still in place. I tied it back higher than normal though.

Mart.

It ran good for the most part, never left me stranded. Aside from the ticking noise I had mentioned in a previous thread, there was a strange noise/vibration every now and again. When the noise would come about, it was on the hwy. Typically only stayed for 1km then went away and didn't seem to change when I let off the throttle. Sounded more like it was coming from the rear but it remained after the rear end rebuild. Yes, I would have just continued to run it if I hadn't found the metal particals.

You got it, I think your right on #3. Just went and checked and this is the opposite side of the bore. This pic being fore and the other pic aft in the bore.



Didn't plan for either, so at this point I'm rolling with a repair manual, your YouTube vids and FB. The machine shop I've dealt with in town for my DD builds flatheads, so I'm going to get pricing and see what I can come up with. I'll probably get him to do any machining I lack tools for and re assemble everything myself. Sure wish I had your boring machine! Don't plan on doing anything too crazy, just getting it back on the road.

I've got my hood strung up just like that, the less you gotta remove, the better.

Lawrie - yes I did loosen the rear trans engine mounts. Great tip with the long dowels for lining up, I will be doing this.
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