The Ford Barn

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 11:22 AM

My Zenith carb on my 4 cylinder model B engine has begun to whistle. The whistle seems to be coming from the throttle port because I cam control the severity of the whistle by placing my fingers around this port.
Are the gaskets and o rings that might solve this problem included in the rebuild kit for the zenith carb. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Benson · 06-22-2015, 12:59 PM

I know that they will whistle if you forget to put the venturi back in!

They sort of run but not as bad as you would think!

Do not ask how I know this!!

Peyton · 06-22-2015, 01:00 PM

Every time I have heard a whistle from the direction of the carburetor, it has been due to a leak between the carburetor and intake manifold (gasket, irregular surfaces, broken intake, etc.). Good luck with it.

Peyton

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 01:19 PM

Great info guys. I recently loosened the carb to the intake manifold to help my put a new carb to fuel pump fuel line. I will change the intake gasket..Do I need to seal with permetex gasket sealer?

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 01:27 PM

i dont use permatex

but i always use the copper style base gasket... they are thicker and can be reused easy

that being said if your current gasket is in bad shape use permatex

Steve Wastler · 06-22-2015, 01:43 PM

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For what it's worth, I've been using carb gaskets I cut out of the back cardboard from legal pads for close to 4 decades. will never run out, you can get 2 sets of both body and flange on one backer. I don't use a sealer, and find as long as the mating surfaces are in good condition, they work very well.

Benson · 06-22-2015, 01:43 PM

Frank,

Do you have an Otwell manifold heater installed?

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

Frank,

Do you have an Otwell manifold heater installed?

wow...Not that I know of. I purchased the 1933 model b last July..
Most of it is original except I know that it once had a heater for inside the car. The heater is no longer there but my exhaust manifold has fins and there was a hose connection from my block.
But you are not referring to that type of heater, right.

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 02:19 PM

i had a carb whistle once because the throttle shaft was loose and that also caused the idle to stick high at times.

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

i had a carb whistle once because the throttle shaft was loose and that also caused the idle to stick high at times.

I can deaden the whistle if i put my fingers around the throttle shaft.
Is there a straight forward way to tighten the shaft or do I have to take the carb apart and add new bushings.

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 02:32 PM

i use the oversize shaft FIRST... real easy to put in with a drill bit... to go the oversize bushing route (which uses the original size shafts) it must be drilled larger than the oversize shaft size so your better off doing the bushings once the oversize wears out

the only other thing you can run into if it alrady has an oversize shaft installed then u need to go the bushing way
does that make sense

Tom Wesenberg · 06-22-2015, 02:33 PM

You'd have to remove the plate and shaft, then drill the housing for the new bushings.

Mitch is a faster typer, and I like his idea of a larger shaft.

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 02:44 PM

From your comments I take it this repair goes beyond the simple carb rebuilding kit.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-22-2015, 02:57 PM

Frank,
IF it's "WHISTLING DIXIE", jist leave it ALONE!!
Bill W.

[email protected] · 06-22-2015, 03:05 PM

A quick Farmer Fix is to take off the carb and unscrew the small fasteners and then remove the throttle round plate. Pull out the shaft and put a couple of turns of gas resistant Teflon pipe tape around on the shaft area where it goes through the carb body. Put the shaft back in by twisting it back and forth and make sure it is positioned correctly. Then put back in the plate with it's fasteners. Re-install the carb on the car and you should be good to go and now whistle free....

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 03:17 PM

frank you can do it with the carb fully assembled
remove the throttle plate and old shaft then shove a depends inside to prevent the shavings from going in
if i had a 5 year old still i would let her do it lol

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Frank,
IF it's "WHISTLING DIXIE", jist leave it ALONE!!
Bill W.

Funny!!!!!

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

A quick Farmer Fix is to take off the carb and unscrew the small fasteners and then remove the throttle round plate. Pull out the shaft and put a couple of turns of gas resistant Teflon pipe tape around on the shaft area where it goes through the carb body. Put the shaft back in by twisting it back and forth and make sure it is positioned correctly. Then put back in the plate with it's fasteners. Re-install the carb on the car and you should be good to go and now whistle free....

Great!!!!

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

frank you can do it with the carb fully assembled
remove the throttle plate and old shaft then shove a depends inside to prevent the shavings from going in
if i had a 5 year old still i would let her do it lol

That's like the old Abbott and Costello line...
Bud says......This is so easy even a 5 year old kid could do it...
Costello answers...Yeah, but where are we going to find a 5 year old kid?

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

A quick Farmer Fix is to take off the carb and unscrew the small fasteners and then remove the throttle round plate. Pull out the shaft and put a couple of turns of gas resistant Teflon pipe tape around on the shaft area where it goes through the carb body. Put the shaft back in by twisting it back and forth and make sure it is positioned correctly. Then put back in the plate with it's fasteners. Re-install the carb on the car and you should be good to go and now whistle free....

Great... Is the throttle "flapper" plate the only thing holding the throttle rod in? Once it is remove the shaft should just slide out?

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankwest

great... Is the throttle "flapper" plate the only thing holding the throttle rod in? Once it is remove the shaft should just slide out?

10-4

mshmodela · 06-22-2015, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Frank,
IF it's "WHISTLING DIXIE", jist leave it ALONE!!
Bill W.

Priceless!

Benson · 06-22-2015, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

wow...Not that I know of. I purchased the 1933 model b last July..
Most of it is original except I know that it once had a heater for inside the car. The heater is no longer there but my exhaust manifold has fins and there was a hose connection from my block.
But you are not referring to that type of heater, right.

The cover does not remove from Otwell Model 14 so does not apply here. (This is not an Otwell)

Benson · 06-22-2015, 06:15 PM

Who sells the over sized throttle shafts for the Model B Zenith?

Thanks

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 06:33 PM

I was able to get the throttle rod out on a spare carb I have.
I am amazed at the ingenuity that went into these wonderful engines created almost 90 years ago. Amazing. I stand in awe!

Mitch//pa · 06-22-2015, 06:37 PM

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make sure you put the throttle plate back in the same way it came out..

its always good to put in new screws

FrankWest · 06-22-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

Who sells the over sized throttle shafts for the Model B Zenith?

Thanks

From you question I assume that many zenith carb parts for model A and model B are not interchangeable. I guess the carb for the model B has extra features to improve performance.

Benson · 06-22-2015, 07:50 PM

Thanks Vince,

I had never seen repro B shafts in STD or oversized either.

From the discussion about using oversized shafts; I wondered if someone was making B shafts that I did not know about.

Hence the question.

FrankWest · 06-23-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyton

Every time I have heard a whistle from the direction of the carburetor, it has been due to a leak between the carburetor and intake manifold (gasket, irregular surfaces, broken intake, etc.). Good luck with it.

Peyton

I replaced the gasket between carb and intake and whistle is GONE!
Thanks. Peyton....You're a Genius!

JD 1931 · 06-23-2015, 06:54 PM

Had one whistle do to the butterfly once, air passing by caused it, someone had tried to modify it and I replaced the butterfly...

FrankWest · 06-24-2015, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD 1931

Had one whistle do to the butterfly once, air passing by caused it, someone had tried to modify it and I replaced the butterfly...

Amazing! I had no idea that such a strong vacuum existed on these engines...It is amazing the engineering effort that took place over 90 years ago.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-24-2015, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Amazing! I had no idea that such a strong vacuum existed on these engines...It is amazing the engineering effort that took place over 90 years ago.

Frank,
The first time my Son, Gregg, (RIP), saw the head off a Model A, he was AMAZED at the huge bore & stroke---------"That would make a great COMPRESSOR"!!---------"Yep, they use them for that also"--Chief heard of a Model A compressor, that by reversing some of the plumbing, it was converted for an emergency VACUUM PUMP to power a DAIRYS' milking machines, during a power failure.
Bill W.

ursus · 06-24-2015, 02:15 PM

Another farmer fix that I use on the B throttle shafts is to remove the shaft, clean it well, and paint some POR-15 epoxy coating onto the portion that runs in the bore. Reposition it several times during the first few hours of drying so that it will dry evenly. As it sets up I will leave it with the worn side down. It will dry to a very hard finish with about 5-6 thousandths additional diameter. Check the fit and sand it a bit if necessary. Grease it and install. Works for me.

FrankWest · 06-24-2015, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Frank,
The first time my Son, Gregg, (RIP), saw the head off a Model A, he was AMAZED at the huge bore & stroke---------"That would make a great COMPRESSOR"!!---------"Yep, they use them for that also"--Chief heard of a Model A compressor, that by reversing some of the plumbing, it was converted for an emergency VACUUM PUMP to power a DAIRYS' milking machines, during a power failure.
Bill W.

It's amazing... I had no idea these engines generated that typr of vacuum..
It blows my mind... I guess when you think of it... Those old steam locomotives had a technology that surpasses our mechanical technology today. Valves, fittings and controls had to be almost perfect to harness the brute strength of the steam.

FrankWest · 06-24-2015, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ursus

Another farmer fix that I use on the B throttle shafts is to remove the shaft, clean it well, and paint some POR-15 epoxy coating onto the portion that runs in the bore. Reposition it several times during the first few hours of drying so that it will dry evenly. As it sets up I will leave it with the worn side down. It will dry to a very hard finish with about 5-6 thousandths additional diameter. Check the fit and sand it a bit if necessary. Grease it and install. Works for me.

Thanks for your help....I greatly appreciate your insights.
I will record it because I may need it someday.

06-22-2015, 11:22 AM	#1
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	zenith Carburetor whistle My Zenith carb on my 4 cylinder model B engine has begun to whistle. The whistle seems to be coming from the throttle port because I cam control the severity of the whistle by placing my fingers around this port. Are the gaskets and o rings that might solve this problem included in the rebuild kit for the zenith carb. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

06-22-2015, 12:59 PM	#2
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle I know that they will whistle if you forget to put the venturi back in! They sort of run but not as bad as you would think! Do not ask how I know this!!

06-22-2015, 01:00 PM	#3
Peyton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 142	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Every time I have heard a whistle from the direction of the carburetor, it has been due to a leak between the carburetor and intake manifold (gasket, irregular surfaces, broken intake, etc.). Good luck with it. Peyton

06-22-2015, 01:19 PM	#4
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Great info guys. I recently loosened the carb to the intake manifold to help my put a new carb to fuel pump fuel line. I will change the intake gasket..Do I need to seal with permetex gasket sealer?

06-22-2015, 01:27 PM	#5
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle i dont use permatex but i always use the copper style base gasket... they are thicker and can be reused easy that being said if your current gasket is in bad shape use permatex

06-22-2015, 01:43 PM	#6
Steve Wastler Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,987	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) For what it's worth, I've been using carb gaskets I cut out of the back cardboard from legal pads for close to 4 decades. will never run out, you can get 2 sets of both body and flange on one backer. I don't use a sealer, and find as long as the mating surfaces are in good condition, they work very well.

06-22-2015, 01:43 PM	#7
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Frank, Do you have an Otwell manifold heater installed?

06-22-2015, 02:19 PM	#9
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle i had a carb whistle once because the throttle shaft was loose and that also caused the idle to stick high at times.

06-22-2015, 02:32 PM	#11
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle i use the oversize shaft FIRST... real easy to put in with a drill bit... to go the oversize bushing route (which uses the original size shafts) it must be drilled larger than the oversize shaft size so your better off doing the bushings once the oversize wears out the only other thing you can run into if it alrady has an oversize shaft installed then u need to go the bushing way does that make sense

06-22-2015, 02:33 PM	#12
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle You'd have to remove the plate and shaft, then drill the housing for the new bushings. Mitch is a faster typer, and I like his idea of a larger shaft.

06-22-2015, 02:44 PM	#13
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle From your comments I take it this repair goes beyond the simple carb rebuilding kit.

06-22-2015, 02:57 PM	#14
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Frank, IF it's "WHISTLING DIXIE", jist leave it ALONE!! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

06-22-2015, 03:05 PM	#15
[email protected] Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 730	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle A quick Farmer Fix is to take off the carb and unscrew the small fasteners and then remove the throttle round plate. Pull out the shaft and put a couple of turns of gas resistant Teflon pipe tape around on the shaft area where it goes through the carb body. Put the shaft back in by twisting it back and forth and make sure it is positioned correctly. Then put back in the plate with it's fasteners. Re-install the carb on the car and you should be good to go and now whistle free....

06-22-2015, 03:17 PM	#16
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle frank you can do it with the carb fully assembled remove the throttle plate and old shaft then shove a depends inside to prevent the shavings from going in if i had a 5 year old still i would let her do it lol

06-22-2015, 06:15 PM	#24
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Who sells the over sized throttle shafts for the Model B Zenith? Thanks Last edited by Benson; 06-22-2015 at 06:21 PM.

06-22-2015, 06:33 PM	#25
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle I was able to get the throttle rod out on a spare carb I have. I am amazed at the ingenuity that went into these wonderful engines created almost 90 years ago. Amazing. I stand in awe!

06-22-2015, 06:37 PM	#26
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) make sure you put the throttle plate back in the same way it came out.. its always good to put in new screws

06-22-2015, 07:50 PM	#28
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Thanks Vince, I had never seen repro B shafts in STD or oversized either. From the discussion about using oversized shafts; I wondered if someone was making B shafts that I did not know about. Hence the question.

06-23-2015, 06:54 PM	#30
JD 1931 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: west coast Fla.. Posts: 311	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Had one whistle do to the butterfly once, air passing by caused it, someone had tried to modify it and I replaced the butterfly...

06-24-2015, 02:15 PM	#33
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,375	Re: zenith Carburetor whistle Another farmer fix that I use on the B throttle shafts is to remove the shaft, clean it well, and paint some POR-15 epoxy coating onto the portion that runs in the bore. Reposition it several times during the first few hours of drying so that it will dry evenly. As it sets up I will leave it with the worn side down. It will dry to a very hard finish with about 5-6 thousandths additional diameter. Check the fit and sand it a bit if necessary. Grease it and install. Works for me.