Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors?

[steve s]

Welcome to the world of aftermarket auto parts. It's not a pretty sight. I remember well exactly how you feel--you assume that when you buy something new it will be right or the seller will stand behind it; sadly, it ain't necessarily so, and I'm not sure that your odds are really that much better with a dealer than with an individual seller.

The dealer I bought my first Mark carb from was VERY reluctant to take it back when my car wouldn't run with it on; he said he had a no-return policy on carb because there were so many possible sources of trouble besides the carb. He insisted that the fault must be with my car although it ran ok with other carbs. Finally, when I raised a stink in front of other customers at our swap meet, he relented. The second one he sent me, had a sticky-tight throttle shaft. I worked it back and forth by hand a few hundred times to loosen it up and never had a problem (exept for aforementioned).

On the other hand, early on in my adventure I bought a brand new Tilly X from Snyders. It was a leaker from the get go, and Snyders gave me my money back with no questions asked.

You probably feel you have gone above-and-beyond by having three carbs, so you sort of deserve that one of them be a good one. I don't know what par for the course is, but I believe that I have about 10, only 2 or 3 of which would I actually expect to work useably.

Several years ago I wrote up an article for our club's newsletter about my restoration saga. My subtitle was "Nothing fits". I think that the situation has actually gotten a bit better in recent years: There is actually some quite good stuff now available, like the Aries mufflers. But, there's a reason that experienced restorers all strongly advise you to, if at all possible, find some original parts and make them work, no matter how beat up they look.

Steve

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

Steve S that carb came from Port Townsend Wa and cost just over $200??
Chuck

That's right. The receipt goes with the carb. Price may have gone up since then.

Steve

[Lawrie]

One easy way to help get your carb set up RIGHT is to use an air fuel ratio meter,
these are avail at most speed supliers(sumit racing etc), this will allow you to get the fuel mixture set up as easy as ,
You can also set up a video camera on the A/F meter while driving to have a poor mans data logging.
Lawrie

[P.S.]

Pluck- I did hear back from Mr. Endy. He has no carbs to sell and mentioned that he prefers to deal with local buyers and not through the mail. So, we're back to square one.

Steve S- Thank you for sharing. Yes, you obviously do know exactly how I feel!

The initial part of the restoration actually went rather well. Most of the original parts were able to be reused after straightening, machining, or whatever. The few repro parts needed fit well and worked great. It's just mind-blowing to me how people sell rebuilt items that they must clearly know will not work for the customer. Then, when trouble is reported, they just expect the customer to work through it, or keep sending it back over and over (and paying shipping). Another lesson learned.

You certainly have an advantage of experience. I'm right at the beginning of this learning curve. And it's pretty steep.

Lawrie- Thank you for the input. I don't need anything to tell me that the current carb is running too rich. Sooty plugs and 10 miles per gallon are all I need! If I clean/gap the plugs then drive to town and back (about 10 miles), the plugs are already sooty. Sure, it has great power, especially on the hills, but at what cost?

[SteveB31]

If you are interested, you might try one of our rebuilt Zenith Carbs, Unlike anyone else I know, besides our thorough rebuild, we actually run ALL of our carbs about 10 miles on a stop and go, up and downhill city and highway routine on the same perfect running car, to be sure they work properly. If you want, Email us your name and address, and I will send you one to try. If you dont like it, you can send it back. If you like it, send me a check. We build hundreds every year, and becuase we test drive every one, we are confident that you will like it. Just a thought.

email me at [email protected] if you want to.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

[P.S.]

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Wow! Very generous and kind offer, Steve. Email sent. Thank you so very much for chiming in.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

If you are interested, you might try one of our rebuilt Zenith Carbs, Unlike anyone else I know, besides our thorough rebuild, we actually run ALL of our carbs about 10 miles on a stop and go, up and downhill city and highway routine on the same perfect running car, to be sure they work properly. If you want, Email us your name and address, and I will send you one to try. If you dont like it, you can send it back. If you like it, send me a check. We build hundreds every year, and becuase we test drive every one, we are confident that you will like it. Just a thought.

email me at [email protected] if you want to.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

And who said there ain't no Santa Clauses!

Great gesture Steve!

Pluck

[redmodelt]

It was stated that it's running rich and only getting 10MPG.
What condition is the motor in?
Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
Are you using the GVA and setting the spark correctly?
Has the timing been checked?
If the GVA is open too far to compensate for a vacuum leak then you could be running too rich which would carbon up the plugs and the motor would be flooding. I find it hard to think that having tried that many carbs that there aren't other problems.

[31 Victoria]

Originally Posted by steve s

That's right. The receipt goes with the carb. Price may have gone up since then.

Steve

Steve, can you give some details on the air filter fitting issue with this carb - have you been able to get any air filter to fit?

Can you also comment on the modification to the gasoline line fitting - did you just need a different size/thread nut on the end of your line?

Thanks,
Paul

[P.S.]

The car runs fantastic with a loaner carb on it.

The current carb runs too rich even with GAV completely closed.

No vacuum leaks.

Timing is right on the money.

Using the GAV? I have to keep it closed so it doesn't go from too rich to way too rich.

Solutions are in the works. Stand by for a report.

Originally Posted by redmodelt

It was stated that it's running rich and only getting 10MPG.
What condition is the motor in?
Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
Are you using the GVA and setting the spark correctly?
Has the timing been checked?
If the GVA is open too far to compensate for a vacuum leak then you could be running too rich which would carbon up the plugs and the motor would be flooding. I find it hard to think that having tried that many carbs that there aren't other problems.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Stand by for a report.

Standing by!!! I wonder how many others have carb problems and don't realize it. They just figure that the A should only get 10-15 MPG.

[Jazzjr]

I Run with my GAV completely closed off after warm up, very seldom do I open it at all.
I have rebuilt many Zeniths, And Never had Problems, They Have to be Clean, inside and out, Bead Blasted, check for Cracks, and make sure the 2 Halves are not Warped. Run a Tap and Chase all threads with right Tap, all hidden passageways cleaned out. If you read Tom Endys Carb Rebuild Pages, You Can do it Your self.
One of the best books I ever Bought, The Model A Ford Carburetors, By Paul Moller. Mine is Copyrighted 1972, and inside the front cover is marked $4, I think I bought it then 40 years ago, It is still available today.


One of the Main Problems is air Leaks around the Throttle Plate Shaft, most people do not put in new Bushings and Shaft. The extra air coming in their will mess up the best of Rebuilds.
Years ago I put together a Zenith using a Top Half Early 1928, Marked H (for Holley) and Ran a Zenith 2 Bottom. Ran Like a Charm. I do find that using Original Jets that are Numbered work best of all.

If You Read, and can Comprehend, You Can Do it Yourself. Just keep Trying and you will get it Done Right, and It will work.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by P.S.

...Zenith that runs way too rich,

Running rich is usually caused by the GAV not seating properly or the compensation jet too large. since you already have the carb and I assume the builder of the carb does not beleive you and won't take it back. Why not try to fix it yourself, what do you have to lose?

-The Gas Adjusting Valve provides a manual adjustment for additional gasoline to the Cap Jet, bypassing the metering effect of the Compensator Jet. The carburetor was designed slightly lean to allow for high altitude driving and, with the GAV, is able to provide additional fuel as needed. This extra fuel is normally needed when the vehicle is cold and at low engine speeds.

-The replaceable Brass Seat was used through 1929. -An integral Seat, Machined in the Lower Casting, was used after that.
-The Seat opening is honed to match the shape of the GAV Needle.
-Notice that the Brass GAV Seat looks much like the Compensating Jet.-However, they are different! They are NOT interchangeable. The Brass Seat is also longer than a Compensator Jet.-It is recommended to use a gasket under the brass seat.
-The Gas Adjusting Valve housing threads are 1/8" 27NPT (Pipe). Use Caution not to cut threads deeper, as it is a pipe thread.
-The GAV housing can become frozen in the pipe threads of the lower casting. The soft brass nut of the GAV is easily damaged beyond use. So, to remove such a GAV housing, cut the housing off just above the nut using a hacksaw. Then, remove the lower frozen part using a spiral screw extractor (Easy Out).






To obtain a good seat when Gas adjusting valve is closed, the seat sometimes needs to be polished to remove pits, dirt scratches, etc. This tool and guide provides a mating, aligned surface that can be spun against the seat with polishing compound on it. The tool is made by soldering two needles together, back to back. The end that will go into the guide and provide the polishing surface needs to have its threads removed to enable it to be spun continuously with a drill. Using an old GAV housing, the spring has been removed to let the tool spin more freely. Some people also cut down both ends of the housing.

[Ron Lowe]

If you are using a air filter try taking it off and see what happens. Quick and easy. This really helped me.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by 31 Victoria

Steve, can you give some details on the air filter fitting issue with this carb - have you been able to get any air filter to fit?

Can you also comment on the modification to the gasoline line fitting - did you just need a different size/thread nut on the end of your line?

Thanks,
Paul

Paul,

I don't have a good photo of it all hooked up, but here's a few that might help.

Here's the spec sheet for the carb:



Here's my filter adapter, made by a guy in Idaho many years ago under What's It brand, as I recall. The first one bounced off and was lost going down the road. To fit the 13922 I had to fashion a "shim" out of rubber inner tube. Also, you can see the piece of wire that I used to help support the weight. I think this is essential. I wrap it up over the sedimentation bowl. Snyders sells a very similar rig now, and others have fashioned them from PVC elbows.





Here's the carb mounted. You can see the rubber fuel line I used instead of metal. Some say this is a bad idea.




Here's the carb with some of the fittings like I explored to connect to rubber hose.



I hope this helps. I urge you to search for earlier threads on the carb. Others report using the metal fuel line somehow; I didn't see how to do it, but didn't work too hard at it. Also, others have posted their mounted air filters. The problem is that the air intake lip is kind of short.

Apologies if this is hijacking the thread--I too would like to know the answer to the original question.

Steve

[400A-64]

Les Andrews rebuilds Carbs and has sold them at various swap meets. After he rebuilds them ,he puts them on his car to test drive them. You might give him a try....

[P.S.]

Thanks again for all the help, guys! Good info, Mike. Once one of the other carbs comes back working, then I will take the current carb apart. I cannot do that now, as that would certainly take the car out of commission, and we do rely on it.

Originally Posted by Jazzjr

If You Read, and can Comprehend, You Can Do it Yourself. Just keep Trying and you will get it Done Right, and It will work.

Well, perhaps. However, you are taking for granted your own mechanical ability and assuming that others have the same. I am an electrical/electronic engineer, not a mechanic. I can design and build a circuit right off the top of my head. I can draw a schematic for a radio, gather or make the parts, etch a circuit board, built it, tune it, and make it work as designed. I my world, I don't see why others cannot do the same. If you can "read and comprehend", then you can read what various electronic components do and how they work, and read how a radio works, and build one yourself also, right?? So, if you cannot build your own radio from scratch and I can, you may understand why I probably cannot redo a Zenith carb. We simply have different skill sets.

Though I am learning a lot from this car, I'm definately not up to doing fine work like carburetors yet. I just figured out how to adjust the brakes myself and actually have them work, and that was a victory we all celebreted with a pizza!


FOLLOW UP- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=588305

[Jazzjr]

I Have built Crystal, and 1 Tube Radio Kits from Diagrams when I was a Kid. In High School I took up Mechanical Drawing 2 Years, Introductory and Advanced. I had a chance to go to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute near Albany, NY when I graduated from High School in 1963, to become a Architectural Engineer. But My father was Iron Ore Worker for Republic Steel and was Not able to Lend Me the $ to go to College, like Mitt thought everyone could do. I could have obtained Loans but had other Fish to Fry!

Also I wanted to work with My hands plus my Brain, then I was Drafted into the US Army in 1964 anyways, I did my best I could do on the Aptitude Tests, and wound up a Wheel Vehicle Mechanic, spent 2 Tours in Viet Nam, Became a 10 Ton Wrecker Operator. Reenlisted after first 2 Years, for 3 More, Obtained the Rank of Buck Sargent E-6, had 8 Mechanics in my Squad I was in charge of. When I came out of the service, spent another 16 Years in part time Army Reserve.
I used the GI Bill and became a Successful all around Building Contractor.

Enough said about Me, You can work with your Hands also, I call educated People who can Put things on Paper, but not use their Hands, Educated Idio, never mind, Here is how You do it getting Dirty.
If You lived near Me I would Help and Make You Rebuild a Zenith.

Degrease, Sand or Bead Blast, Paint with Fuel Resistance Black Spray Paint, Tap all Threads, Assembly Parts, Set Float Level, and follow instructions. If it doesn't run right first time, Check it out, and try again.

5:00 PM - I guess no one noticed the Broken off Piece of the Idle Jet in photo #7.
Here are Photos of how it was removed by using Heat Propane Torch, then douse in cold Water. I removed it with a Jewlers Screwdriver, than Taped the Threads, and Inserted a Good Idle Jet. Easy Job

[Jazzjr]

Though I am learning a lot from this car, I'm definitely not up to doing fine work like carburetors yet. I just figured out how to adjust the brakes myself and actually have them work, and that was a victory we all celebrated with a pizza!

Congratulations, see you can do it, make up your Mind and Just do things, you will Obtain A Lot of Self Satisfaction for Yourself and More so when You Tell Others;
I did it on My Own with the Help of the Ford Barn Forum, Books, Manuals, and Comprehension !!!!!
Good Luck to You in all the Rest of your Life Endeavors.

When you rebuild your first working Zenith, we will pass the hat for a Steak Dinner.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by leadpot

After many carb problems, rebuilds etc I bought one like Steve S. Works great & no further problems, am happy with the purchase. I would like to have a good working original but suspect they are hard to find these days. Most of the originals have probably been rebuilt more than once in their lifetime by an "expert". Know there are many competent rebuilders out there but finding one is sometimes difficult.

Is your carb still performing well for you?