Axial Play in Water Pump Shaft

[Tom Wesenberg]

Be sure the thrust washer is in place and the freeplay kept to a few thousandths, or this can happen.

[billybronco1]

Okay I picked up a B40 fan belt at Napa and it works perfect just the right tightness and still a little adjustment on the alternator arm - thanks

I do see the water pump shaft going in and out as the motor idles so next is the shaft collar, new hoses and clamps and fresh anti freeze.

Anything else while I have the hood off and the radiator out?

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

Ed, is that your Piet in your profile picture? Cool shot either way!

On further inspection, I think the problem was me. I believe I thought I was tightening the packing nut and I was actually loosening it and had backed it off 1/2 a turn. Properly tightened and not leaking now...

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I need to understand this pump end play more. My pump does not leak for short rides and not sure about long rides because I have not done that yet. I have almost a half inch end play if I slide the shaft back and forth. This does not seem right and I need to know what to do.

Also the car has a six volt alternator and I was wondering how much play should be in the fan belt - thanks

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Well I pulled it apart to day to find the metal retainer seal on the water pump shaft had popped out that is why I had so much end play. I pounded it back in but I will also install the collar as well. I thought I saw the recommended spacing some place here but can't find it - was it .006 of end play in the shaft once collar is installed?

Funny thing someone mounted a collar on the other side that seem to do nothing.

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

Until recently end play was fixed by brazing the end of the shaft to make it longer then machining it for the proper fit. The vendors are now sell a extra long shaft that can be machined for a proper fit. The collar works but is not as good as a longer shaft that has been properly fit to the head. If you do not have the proper tools you might have to use the collar.

And, I've seen guys drill and tap the end of the shaft and put a brass screw in to take up the slack. Not sure how long the fix is but brass machine screws are not that costly...............

[billybronco1]

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Okay now that my car is all back together and the collar is in the water pump it seems the water pump make lots of noise and is ready to come apart. I think because there was so much end play maybe 1/2" it chewed up or wore out the bearings and maybe more. Its not loose now (.006+/-)and does not leak. I think I'm going to just buy a new pump assembly. I took off the fan belt and ran it and she is quiet.

What do you think? Should I get the new style leak-less pump? Should I take it off inspect and maybe rebuilt?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Use a stethoscope and make sure the noise is coming from the water pump. Can you feel any scraping while turning the fan by hand?
The last generator I did a week ago had a front bearing that felt very smooth and rolled nicely, but when I tested the generator it squealed like a stuck hog.

[billybronco1]

Yes, if I spin the blade with the belt off I hear a clicking and ticking sound. This sound is very pronounced with fan belt on and engine running.

[billybronco1]

Okay got my new fan blade today and I also ordered a new leakless packing nut because the rubber in my old one looked a little beat up. Question is - the old packing nut is steel and smaller on the OD and the rubber inside goes the whole length of the nut. The new one is I guess zinc looks like aluminum to me and the rubber seal is just in the top part of the nut, is this the way the new ones are? How tight do you crank down on the packing nut?

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by Drive Shaft Dave

The end play should be held to .006, There is a collar that the vendors sell that fits behind the fan ,held by a set screw. The boss inside the head that is used to control the end play is worn down. There are other ways to fix this but the collar is probably the simplest.

Had the same water pump shaft movement (over 1/4 inch)
I found a company that makes a split 3/8 collar! The advantage is not having to take a bunch of things apart to put on the collar on. I also added a nylon washer so that the split collar installed did not rub against metal and adjusted the tolerance with a gauge! All is now well!

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by DHZIEMAN

Had the same water pump shaft movement (over 1/4 inch)
I found a company that makes a split 3/8 collar! The advantage is not having to take a bunch of things apart to put on the collar on. I also added a nylon washer so that the split collar installed did not rub against metal and adjusted the tolerance with a gauge! All is now well!

Can you share with us the contact details please ( ....saves using a worm drive small hose clip!)

[john charlton]

If your car is not show standard and just a happy driver there is a very quick simple fix for end float problems . My 30 CCPU suffered a heavy leak which was caused by very excessive fore and aft shaft shunting ,I would guess about 1/2" . I fitted a small stainless hose clip around the shaft allowing about 1/16" end float . Choose a clip which has a smooth section where the clamping screw section is to avoid wear where the clip contacts the packing nut . This contact area in practise is lubricated by a little waterpump grease which exudes from the shaft .This cured my leak, it does have a slight drip now and again but now I dont have to top up my rad after every trip . This fix has been on my truck for over 1000 miles and there is no discernable wear on the packing nut . The setup does not look unsightly as the clip is small I will try to get my son to post a pic . This saves a whole bunch of labour pulling apart etc etc and gets the same result .(and cheaper!!!)

John in same place, weather was cancelled today.

[3.6rs]

I know tis is an old thread ;
I welded up the end of the shaft. Don't know if this is a correct repair, but it works for me.

[100IH]

3.6 Welding the end of the shaft is relying on principles that the original pump used when first designed. I have had luck with making a Delrin wear tip for the end of the shaft and so far works very well. I like the original W/Pump and wonder why so many feel the need to go to the super pumps that can't be fixed easily, Kind of like which electronic ignition is the best.

[Purdy Swoft]

If you don't want to take the pump apart a shaft collar could be installed behind the fan . The fan would hide the collar and the collar is cheap . Longer shafts with pinned impeller is available , thats what I usually do .

[IndyA]

I'd like to "join" this conversation ...... I have a rebuilt standard pump and a newer metal (maybe aluminum?) 2 blade fan. There's about and 3/4" of lateral play (front to back) when the engine is running. When the engine is not running, I cannot make the shaft move at all.There's no leaking water. The engine keeps cool on longer drives and rarely gets over 135 degrees .....a newer radiator helps this, I'm sure.

The Question: Do I need to worry about this ???? Many thanks in advance for your thoughts... IndyA..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by IndyA

I'd like to "join" this conversation ...... I have a rebuilt standard pump and a newer metal (maybe aluminum?) 2 blade fan. There's about and 3/4" of lateral play (front to back) when the engine is running. When the engine is not running, I cannot make the shaft move at all.There's no leaking water. The engine keeps cool on longer drives and rarely gets over 135 degrees .....a newer radiator helps this, I'm sure.

The Question: Do I need to worry about this ???? Many thanks in advance for your thoughts... IndyA..

Yes, you need to worry because this can happen when the thrust washer isn't in it's correct position in the pockets of the impellor. When the shaft moves more than about 1/8" then the thrust washer comes out of place.

[asapguy]

Ian if you want a spare to rebuild let me know I have approx. 40 used water pumps & I can bring one to the bd. mtg. tonight at CCR. The price is right, FREE.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Can you share with us the contact details please ( ....saves using a worm drive small hose clip!)

Sorry this response took so long! I got on ebay, and searched on "Steel 3/8 collar" A bunch popped up off the search and I ordered several. Ya gotta do a little hunting to find a split sleeve! It really works great!

[DHZIEMAN]

Also Grainger Got to https://www.grainger.com/product/CLI...-Collar-29NX80