B Distributor in a Model A and How to set the timing perfect?

[msmaron]

Can anyone help me or lead me to an article or thread on this. I just bought a rebuilt and restored Model B Distributor for my model A (I like the centrifugal advance). I have a Model B timing cover so the timing pin will set up correctly on the timing gear and also drilled and tapped for the model A if I choose to go back, along with a pop out that has been cut and modified for both use....... But need to know the fool proof method IF there is one on setting the timing on this, and any fine point adjustment to make....any help would be appreciated.
and YES i have used the NU_REX centrifugal advance and still own one set to the Philips specifications and liked it very much, but that is not the subject.


Mark

[Duffy1]

msmaron ;

There was a post about two months ago from a fellow who said the stock model B dist ran retarded thus the reason for model B engines getting hot and blocks cracking around the valves . If this is correct I assume when your dist was rebuilt this issue was addressed.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

msmaron ;

There was a post about two months ago from a fellow who said the stock model B dist ran retarded thus the reason for model B engines getting hot and blocks cracking around the valves . If this is correct I assume when your dist was rebuilt this issue was addressed.

YES..thank you

[H. L. Chauvin]

Mark,

This may not be what you were looking for, & some may disagree, however, the following is a "vintage" detailed description from an original copy of:

"Motors Handbook of Specifications, Interchangeable Parts Service Instructions for 1934", by Edward Barry, Service Editor of MOTORS, N.Y. City which covered many specifications for most automobiles made in the U.S. from 1927-1934:

For the Model B Ford, after setting Model B points at 0.018" :


1. If not centered, loosen the screw on the spark control arm at rear of distributor housing, center it on the groove mark, & tighten screw.
2. Rermove timing pin, & insert opposite end in timing pin hole.
3. Crank engine while pressing on timing pin until pin slips in camshaft recess.
4. Remove distributor cover, rotor, & body.
5. Loosen cam locking screw on top of cam & turn cam until cam rotor slot is pointing towards distributor body No. 1 cylinder firing position.
6. Turn cam counter-clockwise until points are fully open; then turn cam clockwise until the points just close.
7. Stabilize cam with cam wrench & tighten cam locking screw.
8. Replace timing pin.

Mr. Vince Falter has some detailed articles on same which are well written & explained.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Mark,

"Motors Handbook of Specifications, Interchangeable Parts Service Instructions for 1934", by Edward Barry, Service Editor of MOTORS, N.Y. City which covered many specifications for most automobiles made in the U.S. from 1927-1934:

For the Model B Ford, after setting Model B points at 0.018" :


1. If not centered, loosen the screw on the spark control arm at rear of distributor housing, center it on the groove mark, & tighten screw.
2. Rermove timing pin, & insert opposite end in timing pin hole.
3. Crank engine while pressing on timing pin until pin slips in camshaft recess.
4. Remove distributor cover, rotor, & body.
5. Loosen cam locking screw on top of cam & turn cam until cam rotor slot is pointing towards distributor body No. 1 cylinder firing position.
6. Turn cam counter-clockwise until points are fully open; then turn cam clockwise until the points just close.
7. Stabilize cam with cam wrench & tighten cam locking screw.
8. Replace timing pin.

Mr. Vince Falter has some detailed articles on same which are well written & explained.

That is basically the A setting ...thank you though

[1931 flamingo]

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Mark: I have no exp w/ the B dist but I believe Vince did. Also try going over to the HAMB, there's a "Banger" section/forum over there where you might get some help.
I think there's something about the B where it's initial setting is something like 19* advanced but not sure. Hope this may help. Maybe also try PM'ng Purdy?
Paul in CT

[TinCup]

Yes the initial setting is 19 degrees BTDC. The A cover and the B timing gear cover are different to accommodate this. You can also speak to the guys over at Renners Corner. They have parts and a great deal of knowledge about the B dist. I am rebuilding one now for a technical seminar for our club.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

here is the link to Vince's B distributor page
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributoradvance.htm

Initial setting with the engine not running is 19*. Note it describes the maximum advance as 36*. Given todays heads are much higher compression than the original Model B head, you probably want to avoid max advance beyond 28* if you are running a head around 5.5:1 compression. Also take into account that the origins of the springs on your advance are unknown, thus the advance curve described cannot be relied on until you verify it. If you do not have a distributor machine or a dyno, I would get a good degree scale that sits adjacent to the crank pulley and set a timing mark at 0 on the pulley. Start the engine and using a timing light, adjust the distributor so the max advance at normal running speed is at the degree you want it, for example, 28 degrees. This might mean it idles before 19 degrees. Once you get it on the road, the distributor has a small degree scale on the side that allows you to adjust the timing up or down a few degrees to suit its actual road performance.

[columbiA]

While the B dist may be fine for some,I much prefer to run the A dist on the B engine.I like to control the ignition myself.I run a 5.9 head on my 33 B.I do carry a spare pre-timed B dist that I can change out in about 5 min flat with a bullet connector between the terminal box & speedo-wiring tunnel under gas tank.I never usr the cable clamp on cyl head.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Mark,

Agree, each to one's own preference as to whether to install an A or B distributor -- it is your vehicle & you know what "you" want & do "not" want.

I ran an A engine at one time & a B engine at another time in my same Model A with a Police Head & with B distributor for quite a few years without a problem.

Reason: Had young guys my age, (at that time), borrowing it who I figured would never care about the spark advance position -- both ears always down & go.

So I figured a Police Head with the centrifugal advance was a wiser choice in that particular case.

Also not at all a bad idea if one has children or grandchildren borrowing or driving an A -- good chance they will soon not be concerned & pay no attention to the spark advance.

With many Model A owners going for higher compression heads these days, it is easy to have uninformed drivers prematurely bang the babbitt out of the bearings.

[gwhite]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

here is the link to Vince's B distributor page
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributoradvance.htm

Initial setting with the engine not running is 19*. Note it describes the maximum advance as 36*. Given todays heads are much higher compression than the original Model B head, you probably want to avoid max advance beyond 28* if you are running a head around 5.5:1 compression. Also take into account that the origins of the springs on your advance are unknown, thus the advance curve described cannot be relied on until you verify it. If you do not have a distributor machine or a dyno, I would get a good degree scale that sits adjacent to the crank pulley and set a timing mark at 0 on the pulley. Start the engine and using a timing light, adjust the distributor so the max advance at normal running speed is at the degree you want it, for example, 28 degrees. This might mean it idles before 19 degrees. Once you get it on the road, the distributor has a small degree scale on the side that allows you to adjust the timing up or down a few degrees to suit its actual road performance.

Have you experienced pinging at 5.5+ CR? The manual advance of the A allows for up to 40*...do guys running HC heads typically back off the spark lever?

[Kirby1374]

Originally Posted by msmaron

That is basically the A setting ...thank you though

If you have a B timing gear cover that is the point.what else do you want or need to know?

[Bruce Adams]

Have you experienced pinging at 5.5+ CR? The manual advance of the A allows for up to 40*...do guys running HC heads typically back off the spark lever?

I was advised by my HC head builder to NOT advance it all the way down and I CAN'T without what seems like pre-ignition but must be POST ignition, but I can do sixty with it halfway down so I just don't drop it to seven o'clock.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by gwhite

Have you experienced pinging at 5.5+ CR? The manual advance of the A allows for up to 40*...do guys running HC heads typically back off the spark lever?

Yes,if they are smart.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by gwhite

Have you experienced pinging at 5.5+ CR? The manual advance of the A allows for up to 40*...do guys running HC heads typically back off the spark lever?

Yes on the pinging.

If you pay close attention, you can feel the engine over work even before it pings when the spark is too far advanced. Try it while not moving. Advance the spark at mid rpm range and you can feel the engine no longer increase in power when you go just beyond optimum, then as you advance further it will start to labor. Too much advance is aggravated when under a heavy load, like a steep hill climb or high temperature.

I never go beyond 28 degrees anymore with a 5.5 or higher head. Most of the time I advance just beyond half mast with a Brumfield 5.9 head that has been surfaced a few times, so the compression is higher now.

[MikeK]

With 19 degrees initial and a H.C. head I would avoid any hand-crank demonstrations. Even the automobile expert pictured below has had trouble with that.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mark,

As for hand cranking a Model B engine FWIW:

We always timed our B distributor per reply no. 4 on this B engine with a B timing cover & a Police Head and "hand cranked" this engine more often than using the starter because of not being able to afford a new battery.

This B engine, B distributor, B timing cover & Police Head came out of a boat used intermittently for about 20 years -- I remember the former owner hand cranking this engine in the boat by hand with a modified crank shaped like a torque wrench -- still have the wood boat & the modified hand crank.

After timing per reply No, 4, never had engine "kick back" with either the starter or the hand crank.

B engines came with a hand cranks because Ford designed them to be cranked by hand.

If one advances the timing on any vintage engine more than that recommended by the manufacturer, and hand cranks this engine, no doubt it will be dangerous.

Hope this helps with B distributor timing etc.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Kirby1374

If you have a B timing gear cover that is the point.what else do you want or need to know?

Kirby Basically I think your correct. That was the sole purpose of getting the "B" cover to allow it to me at BTDC with no issues. I do know there is a fine point adjustment on the side of the dist. and was told to determine by "ear" the perfect setting and drive and test...Other than that to set it exactly the way a model a would be set, just so the spark hits at the very opening of the points!

mark

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by msmaron

Kirby Basically I think your correct. That was the sole purpose of getting the "B" cover to allow it to me at BTDC with no issues. I do know there is a fine point adjustment on the side of the dist. and was told to determine by "ear" the perfect setting and drive and test...Other than that to set it exactly the way a model a would be set, just so the spark hits at the very opening of the points!

mark

The spark always happens just as the points open, but you need to determine where the crankshaft is (or should be) when that happens. I think H.L. Chauvin answered the timing correctly.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

The spark always happens just as the points open, but you need to determine where the crankshaft is (or should be) when that happens.

OK continue Tom please......??