baffling loss of oil UPDATE

[pat in Santa Cruz]

After realizing I was looking at data provided second and third hand, I decided to go over the engine personally. What I had asked was, " did you see any clogs in the oil filler tube or cap?"

I was told no. That's because the 2 who tore down the engine and inspected it did not investigate in detail. They saw this:


GEDC0525 by tiopato2000, on Flickr

a normal oil filler tube. When I pulled the cap, I found this:


GEDC0526 by tiopato2000, on Flickr

This was " filtered" with a green Scotch Brite pad which was saturated with the typical oil and water vapor froth from a winter engine subject to short trips. I tried to blow air through it...it was totally clogged...no means for crankcase pressure to escape except through the rear main, the pressure pushing the oil up the drain tube and out the rear seal.

A call to Rich Falluca by shop staff got this answer, without any leading or information on the event, other than that the engine seized.
Rich said, " oh yeah, a plugged filler cap, It would take about 50 miles for the crankcase pressure to push the entire oil supply out the rear main, and another 20 for the engine to fail."

This engine failed at 70 miles from starting out with a full pan. There was 1/2 cup of oil left in the pan when all 4 pistons seized.

[700rpm]

Thanks for the follow-up Pat. Was this the fellow here who was sure he had checked his oil that morning, went on a 100 mile tour, and his engine seized?

[Earle]

For several years and several thousand miles I've used fine steel wool stuffed into the cap of my oil filler tube - after I first thoroughly shook out all of the loose fibers, of course.

It has done very well at trapping hot oil vapors while driving and allowing the oil to drain back down into the engine instead of blowing an oil film all over the side of the engine. An inspection before every drive, when checking the oil level, insures that no blockage is developing. It has never gotten clogged up.

[BrianBurkert]

I've given up on brillo pads, socks, and oil breathers. I let the blow-by coat the engine. Keeps it from rusting. 50 years down the road my starter will look like new underneath the grime. Also, I get the Model A air freshener effect with the oil vapors coming up through the pedal plate. Good for the sinuses, skin, and hair. It ensures that everyone knows they are (and we are) riding in a Model A.

[Benson]

Pat thanks for updating!

It is always good to know what the final problem was.

I have seen pieces of rusted steel wool find their way into the oil pan, from the condensation of water vapor collecting in the steel wool from folks using that "cure".

The rusted pieces then fell out of the cap and into the oil pan.

[Pilotdave]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I followed the original thread as posts were added. Interesting that none suggested this possibility as the cause of the oil loss. Sure glad to hear that an answer has been found - but who installed the Brillo pad "filter"? If the rebuild shop did it, I would think that the shop owes the owner a new engine.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Fine steel wool = bad

Coarse stainless steel = better

[TinCup]

I had the exact problem with my coupe. Someone had placed steelwool in the cap to prevent blowby and of course oil poured out the rear main.

[criswellnk]

I don't know how well the owner will take the news that it was something that was relativly simple, either way it is unfortunate that the engine in question is toast. Thanks for posting the upadate as to what you had found. With my most recent A, when I had first gotten it, more oil was being pumped out the rear main than through the rest of the engine I bet. Not the first thing (but one of the first things) to check was the oil filler cap, and sure enough the tabs that keep it from being pushed all the way down were bent straight. Somehow, somewhere in the past somebody had pushed the cap down too tight and the engine wasn't able to breath right. Once I found a good cap, the oil being pumped out the rear almost completly disappeared.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

yes, this is the same engine that froze up last week. I cannot figure out how to add to the title of an existing thread I have started so I could link it to that thread with a title indicating there's more news. Sorry if anyone wasn't sure. The pad was added by the owner. While the cylinders will have to be bored out to the next O.S., he is fortunate that the new Burlington crank and Stipe cam are ok.

40 years ago I tried out a copper Brillo pad in a B engine, on the suggestion of some club members. It was a common cure for the oil smell back then. The engine started leaking a bit more out the rear. So I took it out and added a road draft tube on the suggestion of one fellow who knew better what these engines needed. It worked very well and actually reduced oil leakage from the rear main. . I've always used road draft tubes since. A engines do not breathe well enough anyway and blocking an airway that is already insufficient is a bad idea at best. As this event shows, it could be the worst thing you do to your new engine.

[PC/SR]

Thanks for the update. I use the kitchen "chore girl" thing like Hoarse shows, and have also drilled and tapped a 90* brass fitting into the upper rear part of the valve cover. Get a little bit of cross ventilation, and you can feel the blow by puff-puffs there for more pressure relief. No oil leaks.

[dfish2931nc]

I was told by an old Model A friend that a road draft tube on a Model A meant it had too much blowby. He said to never buy a Model A with one of them on the engine.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by dfish2931nc

I was told by an old Model A friend that a road draft tube on a Model A meant it had too much blowby. He said to never buy a Model A with one of them on the engine.

That could be the reason, but not necessarily always is. It helps keep the engine bay cleaner. There is less odor coming through the brake pedal holes. But I bet the most common reason is called a wife who hates to ride in that smelly old Ford.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Thanks for the update. I use the kitchen "chore girl" thing like Hoarse shows, and have also drilled and tapped a 90* brass fitting into the upper rear part of the valve cover. Get a little bit of cross ventilation, and you can feel the blow by puff-puffs there for more pressure relief. No oil leaks.

I have seen PCV valves installed there in the valve cover, and they work very well when installed correctly. It must be in the upper rear, like you did, because the valves rely on the oil mist for lubrication. Installing a PVC in the front could deprive the rear valves of sufficient mist.

[steve s]

I use the wider, Model B, filler tube, but then that's just the sort of thing I would do.

Steve

[700rpm]

Pat: You can add to the title of an original thread by clicking on the Edit button in your first post. When the edit screen opens up, click on the Advanced button, and that will give you access to editing any part of the post, including the title.

I'm posting this as part of this thread so others might also benefit from it, not to wander off topic or hijack the thread. Hope that helps.

[msmaron]

Same problem happened to me, removed the steel wool, filled back up with oil and problem literately solved instantly.

[Pilotdave]

Good to hear that the rebuild shop had not installed that Brillo pad. And to hear that some significant parts could be salvaged.

[Tony S,Fl.]

The other day I saw an oil filler pipe with a half inch copper tube soldered about 1 inch below the cap. A 90 degree bend down right along side of the filler pipestraight down through the engine pan. I ment to ask this forum if that would be practicle. So I'm asking. Sounds better than the flexable tubing. Tony

[V4F]

i use a K&N filter & it has to much resistance to be a good breather . i installed a PCV valve under it in the pipe , routed it into my air filter in the bottom & all is well now .