My 59ab starts cold but fails hot ?

[~~Walts37~~]

I have not had any problems with my 37 pickup for years and still will start on the first turn over when it is cold but after I drive it for a half hour and turn it off it will not attempt to start. Let it sit for an hour and it starts standing on the ground and hitting the start button. I am now pulling the crab distributor and cleaning the points and rotor. Need to know what the points settings for a 59ab Crab distributor and the odds that I need a new 12 volt coil & Condenser ??? tia
~~Walts37~~

[30-9]

Originally Posted by ~~Walts37~~

I have not had any problems with my 37 pickup for years and still will start on the first turn over when it is cold but after I drive it for a half hour and turn it off it will not attempt to start. Let it sit for an hour and it starts standing on the ground and hitting the start button. I am now pulling the crab distributor and cleaning the points and rotor. Need to know what the points settings for a 59ab Crab distributor and the odds that I need a new 12 volt coil & Condenser ??? tia
~~Walts37~~

Walt read my post today: 39 - 6 volt electrical question. I have same issue. I am keeping all my stock 6 volt, helmet distro - I don't believe 12 volt will solve your problem

Keep me posted on what you find and I'll do same.

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by 30-9

Walt read my post today: 39 - 6 volt electrical question. I have same issue. I am keeping all my stock 6 volt, helmet distro - I don't believe 12 volt will solve your problem

Keep me posted on what you find and I'll do same.

Will do I did find the point setting in one of my books looks to be .012 - .014 gonna try that now.

[willowbilly3]

You didn't say how it cranks when hot. Often on 6 volt systems the starter drags enough when hot and expanded that it draws too much amperage and doesn't leave enough voltage to fire the points.
Long story but when I was a kid my dad had an old 6 volt pickup that did that. One day we were at the blacksmith's and it wouldn't start. The old blacksmith said "I can fix that" He pulled the starter, put the armature in his lathe and shaved it down a little, put it back together and the old truck started fine hot ever after. Just bad starter bushings can let the starter drag enough too.

[WestCoast]

Walt, my motor manual says .015 for the points, engine not starting hot is usually caused by two things, one is that after the engine warms up it gets the intake manifold hot and boils the gas out of the float chamber into the engine causing it to flood, next time you shut the motor off with a flash light look down the throat of the carb to see if any fuel is dribbling down the carb throat, if so there is a couple of things you can do to help stop that, aluminum manifolds pass more heat to the carb than cast iron, use a 1" or so phenolic carb under carb, block off the carb heater passage in the intake manifold that is under the carb just behind the carb, check the coil, if you cant put your hand on it and leave it there with out burning your hand I would say the coil is failing, letting the car set for an hour or so lets the gas evaporate out of the engine and the coil cool down thus letting the engine start

[petehoovie]

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When this happens, try shorting out the resistor - put a wire across it. I had a '57 Chevy that did the same thing. It could be '30 below zero and it would start like a champ. Once it warmed up, it couldn't be started again until it cooled way down. Turned out to be a bad resistor. When the resistor got hot its resistance increased to the point where there was not enough voltage presented to the coil....

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

You didn't say how it cranks when hot. Often on 6 volt systems the starter drags enough when hot and expanded that it draws too much amperage and doesn't leave enough voltage to fire the points.
Long story but when I was a kid my dad had an old 6 volt pickup that did that. One day we were at the blacksmith's and it wouldn't start. The old blacksmith said "I can fix that" He pulled the starter, put the armature in his lathe and shaved it down a little, put it back together and the old truck started fine hot ever after. Just bad starter bushings can let the starter drag enough too.

I set this up to be 12 vdc Neg Gnd and the Motor spins like it has very little resistance when hot. I did set the points at .013 and it started right up but is a little rough when the RPMs are reeved up. I drove it around the block a couple times & have it idling at this time. I plan to get it warmed up good and then try to restart it while hot to see if I helped it any.
Thanks for the input I will post the outcome with good results I hope lol.

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

When this happens, try shorting out the resistor - put a wire across it. I had a '57 Chevy that did the same thing. It could be '30 below zero and it would start like a champ. Once it warmed up, it couldn't be started again until it cooled way down. Turned out to be a bad resistor. When the resistor got hot its resistance increased to the point where there was not enough voltage presented to the coil....

Thanks for the input and yes it could be the resistor but in this case it has a 12 vdc coil with a built in resistor due to the one wire alternator I installed years ago. I have never had any overheat problems with this engine. I have been doing nothing but driving this truck for about 10 years and this is the first problem except replacing the battery a couple times. I imagine it is about time for a new distributor cap, rotor and some points although the points look pretty good the distributor and rotor look somewhat worn.
Thanks again
~~Walts37~~

[JSeery]

What is the resistance of the coil? Needs to be at least 3.0 ohms.

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by JSeery

What is the resistance of the coil? Needs to be at least 3.0 ohms.

I really do not know how to test the resistance on a built in Coil but I did just shut the engine off now that it is good and hot I did put my hand on the coil after running for about 30 minutes and it was pretty hot to the touch I think I will let it sit for a few minutes then see if it will start. If it fails to start again I will get a new coil and condenser for another try.
Thanks for the input.
I did live in Wichita for about 15 years back in the 60s & 70s Worked at Beech and owned a CB shop on south Broadway called Smokey's Electronics.
~~Walts37~~

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by ~~Walts37~~

I did live in Wichita for about 15 years back in the 60s & 70s Worked at Beech and owned a CB shop on south Broadway called Smokey's Electronics. ~~Walts37~~

Interesting!

You want the primary to be at least 3.0 ohms, the diagram is for a coil with a ballast resistor. If you decide to replace the coil I would suggest you read Bubbas suggestions before you pick one.

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Interesting!

You what the primary to be at least 3.0 ohms, the diagram is for a coil with a ballast resistor. If you decide to replace the coil I would suggest you read Bubbas suggestions before you pick one.

Many thanks JSerry I did go start the truck while hot and it did start with no problem but I will check the coil and probably order some new points, distributor rotor & cap so maybe I can get another 10 years out of it.
Thanks again for all the help.
~~Walts37~~

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Interesting!

You want the primary to be at least 3.0 ohms, the diagram is for a coil with a ballast resistor. If you decide to replace the coil I would suggest you read Bubbas suggestions before you pick one.

JSeery. Do you check the coil like in the pic with the coil on the bench or with the wires on the car hooked up? If you have 1/2 dox coils under the bench and don't know if they are 6 volts or 12 volt coils, How do you check em? Thanks Walt

[~~Walts37~~]

[B]I would like to thank all who came to my aid on this problem. The starting problem seems to be resolved but still running a little rough when above idle. I did pull the plugs look good & ordered a new coil from JC Whitney & a set of points from Dennis Carpenter in hopes the roughness goes away when they get here. also replaced a frayed coil wire but still running a little rough. Thanks again for all the suggestions.
~~Walts37~~[/B]

[Seth Swoboda]

This is just an idea of course, you can get an original Ford coil rebuilt by Skip Haney set up for 12 volt negative ground and use and external resistor. That may prove more reliable than the JC Whitney coil. Just a thought.

[Jeff/Illinois]

We had the same thing with the '36 pickup with a 59AB. I tried all the obvious stuff, changed coils, condensors, checked plugs, points,etc. Usually these problems are electrical don't condemn the carb, right

Sent the Distributor to Bubba over in Indiana, he found worn bushings, rebuilt the dist (did a super job) popped it in same thing. Coil checked out OK.

Did a compression check it was fine.

Next started fooling with the fuel side. Worn fuel pump? Sent that out to Charlie and he rebuilt my original fuel pump. No difference still a problem.

Drained the gas tank and added non-ethanol fuel from Phillips 66. No change.

Sent the Stromberg97 to another guy I won't mention for a rebuild. Got it back still a problem, and the carb didn't seem 'right' the choke bound REAL bad and several other issues. Truck lacked power. Even harder to start now. You had to pull out the choke HARD it was not smooth at all. I called the guy up and he said 'Just oil it'. In 40 plus years of fooling with carbureted Fords I had never been told or heard of 'oiling it.' Hmmmmmm.

Sent the carb to ANOTHER guy and he went thru it and found a lot of issues. Throttle plates mis-aligned. Jets were too big for the carb. Float set wrong. Choke was 'bent'. The bore for the choke was out of round (I don't know what he did to it at least I got an original Stromberg back might have been somebody elses. Luckily it wasn't one of the infamous JUNK Chinese knock offs that are floating around.) Carb had some junk rebuild parts the first guy used (still was charged $200 for a bad job from rebuilder at door #1 Let's Make A Deal. The second rebuilder dialed it in ran it on a flathead and shipped it back. Plug and Play time.

NOW the truck starts right off hot or cold and runs better than it ever has. The sweet spot now is, cold start you set the choke just a tad, pump it once maybe twice, hit the starter and she fires on the second revolution. Hot use no choke hit the starter and starts right off first time.

Good luck hope this helps.

[~~Walts37~~]

You are probably right on the Skip Coil but I am replacing a Whitney coil that has been perfect for 10 years and may still be good. The one I am replacing had vibrated down in the bracket and was siting right on the head for some extra heat so replacing it is just a thought. I hope it helps with the roughness if not I guess I will have a spare coil sitting around. lol

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by ~~Walts37~~

You are probably right on the Skip Coil but I am replacing a Whitney coil that has been perfect for 10 years and may still be good. The one I am replacing had vibrated down in the bracket and was siting right on the head for some extra heat so replacing it is just a thought. I hope it helps with the roughness if not I guess I will have a spare coil sitting around. lol

I never hurts to have a spare coil. I like to keep one in the car.

[~~Walts37~~]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

We had the same thing with the '36 pickup with a 59AB. I tried all the obvious stuff, changed coils, condensors, checked plugs, points,etc. Usually these problems are electrical don't condemn the carb, right

Sent the Distributor to Bubba over in Indiana, he found worn bushings, rebuilt the dist (did a super job) popped it in same thing. Coil checked out OK.

Did a compression check it was fine.

Next started fooling with the fuel side. Worn fuel pump? Sent that out to Charlie and he rebuilt my original fuel pump. No difference still a problem.

Drained the gas tank and added non-ethanol fuel from Phillips 66. No change.

Sent the Stromberg97 to another guy I won't mention for a rebuild. Got it back still a problem, and the carb didn't seem 'right' the choke bound REAL bad and several other issues. Truck lacked power. Even harder to start now. You had to pull out the choke HARD it was not smooth at all. I called the guy up and he said 'Just oil it'. In 40 plus years of fooling with carbureted Fords I had never been told or heard of 'oiling it.' Hmmmmmm.

Sent the carb to ANOTHER guy and he went thru it and found a lot of issues. Throttle plates mis-aligned. Jets were too big for the carb. Float set wrong. Choke was 'bent'. The bore for the choke was out of round (I don't know what he did to it at least I got an original Stromberg back might have been somebody elses. Luckily it wasn't one of the infamous JUNK Chinese knock offs that are floating around.) Carb had some junk rebuild parts the first guy used (still was charged $200 for a bad job from rebuilder at door #1 Let's Make A Deal. The second rebuilder dialed it in ran it on a flathead and shipped it back. Plug and Play time.

NOW the truck starts right off hot or cold and runs better than it ever has. The sweet spot now is, cold start you set the choke just a tad, pump it once maybe twice, hit the starter and she fires on the second revolution. Hot use no choke hit the starter and starts right off first time.

Good luck hope this helps.

Never even gave the carb a thought. This is the original carb that was rebuilt with a mac's kit 10 years ago by a local mechanic without any problems till now Thanks for the info. Will take that into consideration.

~~Walts37~~

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

JSeery. Do you check the coil like in the pic with the coil on the bench or with the wires on the car hooked up? If you have 1/2 dox coils under the bench and don't know if they are 6 volts or 12 volt coils, How do you check em? Thanks Walt

Walt you can check a coil on or off of the car, just need to remember a few things. The ohms meter will read the part of least resistance, so you want the only path to be through the coil. For the primary if the ignition switch is off the only path should be through the coil. If the points are closed (a path to ground) and there is a short in the hot side wiring (also a path to ground) that could be a problem, but not very likely. On the secondary, if the coil wire is pulled out of the coil the only path would be through the coil.

On a stack of coils, the ohms reading are going to give you a general idea of what type of coil it is. An ~1.5 to 3.0 ohm coil is most likely a 12 volt coil while one in the <1.5 ohm range probably a 6 volt coil. But, there are going to be exceptions. Coils with the lower ohms ratings can be high performance 12 volt coils. This applies to points type coils, electronic ignitions will have totally different values.

For 12 volt coils:
1- 1.5 ohm coil= contact ignition system and some electronic ignitions
2- .5 ohm coil needed for current controlling electronic systems like the GM HEI ignitions.
3- 3-4 ohm coil used with no ballast systems as the ignition coil has it built in. Used mainly in fours and sixes as the dwell time is longer on these units and coil saturation is better.