The Ford Barn

34pickup · 07-06-2018, 12:38 PM

My newly acquired 1948 Super Deluxe coupe is my first experience with a flathead v8 other than an old junk engine I once took apart. So... is it true that you have to remove the distributor to adjust the points on one of these? If so, will it have to be re- timed when I put it back on like on an OHV engine that gets the distributor removed?
I am totally ignorant about flatheads. I have messed with OHV engines since the 60s but never a flathead.This car had been sitting for many years and I am trying to get it in driving condition. Its totally stock as far as I know. Already have the brakes started and a new gas tank and fuel lines and new fuel pump. I figure I need to see if the points need replacing before I get too involved in trying to start it.

revkev6 · 07-06-2018, 01:01 PM

there are two different styles of flathead distributor. one mounts directly to the camshaft, the other is more like a late model distributor. assuming you have the original engine in that 48 it would be the front mount style. this distributor has a tab that only goes into the camshaft one way. you can remove the distributor and reinstall it without fear of timing change. they do require a fixture to set the timing out of the car though.

40cpe · 07-06-2018, 01:07 PM

The distributor is driven by a slot in the nose of the cam. This slot is slightly offset from center in order to prevent reinstalling it out of time. As long as you are careful to get the distributor tab and the cam slot aligned, no re-timing is necessary. I would suggest marking the distributor with reference marks when you take it out in order to get it reinstalled correctly.

Sorry for the repeat

G.M. · 07-06-2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

My newly acquired 1948 Super Deluxe coupe is my first experience with a flathead v8 other than an old junk engine I once took apart. So... is it true that you have to remove the distributor to adjust the points on one of these? If so, will it have to be re- timed when I put it back on like on an OHV engine that gets the distributor removed?
I am totally ignorant about flatheads. I have messed with OHV engines since the 60s but never a flathead.This car had been sitting for many years and I am trying to get it in driving condition. Its totally stock as far as I know. Already have the brakes started and a new gas tank and fuel lines and new fuel pump. I figure I need to see if the points need replacing before I get too involved in trying to start it.

Hi 34, The coil, condenser and distributor are the heart of these engines. The coils were never very good from the time these cars were new. The insulation materials in those days didn't take the 200 plus degrees. The insulation leaks at high temperature, the spark gets weaker the hotter the coil gets. It becomes a little yellow ball and the compression blows it out.
After cooling about 20 minutes the engine will start. The condensers act the same way. Skip Haney in Florida rebuilds the coils with modern materials that take the heat. He will test your condenser HOT to make sure it works.
The distributors need to be set up on a Ford~Hyer strobe machine to the
original Ford specs. They are set up with gauges and meters not feeler gauges. When these parts are set up and tested they should work with no further adjustments. The coil cost is $75.00, test condenser free, and the distributor is $50.00 to take apart clean and lube and set up to factor specs.
Shipping is about $20.00 Contact [email protected] for info. G.M.

34pickup · 07-06-2018, 01:10 PM

OK, Thanks. That sounds good. Usually if it can be messed up, I will do just that. If it only goes in one way then I should be able to handle it.
I did find the page on VanPelts web site showing how to set the timing without a fixture. That doesn't look too difficult either.

G.M. · 07-06-2018, 08:18 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

OK, Thanks. That sounds good. Usually if it can be messed up, I will do just that. If it only goes in one way then I should be able to handle it.
I did find the page on VanPelts web site showing how to set the timing without a fixture. That doesn't look too difficult either.

Don't pull the distributor up with the bolts, it must seat by hand, it could be 180 degrees out. Pulling in with the bolts can break the mounting ears.
you can get the engine running the way you mentioned but it won't be
perfect. G.M.

fordwife · 07-06-2018, 10:20 PM

Using Van Pelt's info. you should be able to set it up so it will run fairly well. you will need to adjust the vacuum brake according to their info.

rotorwrench · 07-07-2018, 09:39 AM

For years, the post war pancake V type front mounted distributor parts were very hard to source but they are a lot more common now. Back in the 60s & 70s many were converted to the 1942 style cap or crab cap type as it is better known. They are easier to work on but they also require a sealing gasket for the cap since they could get fouled with moisture in inclement weather. Either set up can be made to work well.

I disagree that these distributors need a machine to set them up but it certainly helps get them right on the money for adjustments. If the original Ford instructions are followed, they will generally work just fine. Timing can be adjusted internally only since the distributor body is fixed but really should be set up as recommended by Ford and then left that way until it needs maintenance again. It is important that the rotating advance weight unit be in good condition and smooth in function. The vacuum brake is the automatic advance/retard control for these early units. The piston has to have a good leather tip where it brakes the advance rotor unit. It needs to slide smoothly in the housing. The Ford instructions instruct the mechanic on adjustment of the piston spring pressure. Many times the adjustment remains close to the minimum since the flathead V8s don't require a lot of retard when pulling power up a hill or when hauling heavy loads.

5851a · 07-07-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.M.

Hi 34, The coil, condenser and distributor are the heart of these engines. The coils were never very good from the time these cars were new. The insulation materials in those days didn't take the 200 plus degrees. The insulation leaks at high temperature, the spark gets weaker the hotter the coil gets. It becomes a little yellow ball and the compression blows it out.
After cooling about 20 minutes the engine will start. The condensers act the same way. Skip Haney in Florida rebuilds the coils with modern materials that take the heat. He will test your condenser HOT to make sure it works.
The distributors need to be set up on a Ford~Hyer strobe machine to the
original Ford specs. They are set up with gauges and meters not feeler gauges. When these parts are set up and tested they should work with no further adjustments. The coil cost is $75.00, test condenser free, and the distributor is $50.00 to take apart clean and lube and set up to factor specs.
Shipping is about $20.00 Contact [email protected] for info. G.M.

That sounds like a seriously good price, you can't get a dealer to plug in diagnostic equipment to a new car for that money.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 07-08-2018, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

For years, the post war pancake V type front mounted distributor parts were very hard to source but they are a lot more common now. Back in the 60s & 70s many were converted to the 1942 style cap or crab cap type as it is better known. They are easier to work on but they also require a sealing gasket for the cap since they could get fouled with moisture in inclement weather. Either set up can be made to work well.

I disagree that these distributors need a machine to set them up but it certainly helps get them right on the money for adjustments. If the original Ford instructions are followed, they will generally work just fine. Timing can be adjusted internally only since the distributor body is fixed but really should be set up as recommended by Ford and then left that way until it needs maintenance again. It is important that the rotating advance weight unit be in good condition and smooth in function. The vacuum brake is the automatic advance/retard control for these early units. The piston has to have a good leather tip where it brakes the advance rotor unit. It needs to slide smoothly in the housing. The Ford instructions instruct the mechanic on adjustment of the piston spring pressure. Many times the adjustment remains close to the minimum since the flathead V8s don't require a lot of retard when pulling power up a hill or when hauling heavy loads.

AMEN !!!!

Try to start the engine , it may run very well as is...

vintrex · 07-08-2018, 12:32 PM

Hello,

I'm glad you asked that question because my newly acquired 47 had the distributor in parts on the front seat and the Hanging from the front of the motor so this thread was very helpful. Also you can find a YouTube video on Malory options that I just watched and found interesting as far as giving new ideas.

chap52 · 07-09-2018, 10:04 AM

If you decide you want to explore options contact "Bubba" (Post #10, jim Linder). He is the ignition guru and a real nice guy to work with.

34pickup · 07-10-2018, 09:10 AM

I got the old gal to run! Thanks for everyone's help. I am familiar with OHV engines but this is my first go at a flathead. I took off the distributor, reset the points, cleaned the rotor and replaced a bad wire to the coil and she hit and started running. First time in probably 10 years or so. I only ran it a couple of seconds to see it if would run. I am going to change the old oil before I really try to tune it up and get it driving. Still waiting on brake parts anyway so I am in no hurry. I replaced the entire fuel system up to the carb so I should have it road ready soon.

supereal · 07-11-2018, 01:43 PM

It is important to know how the old Ford ignition is designed. One set of points "makes" and supplies power to the coil. The other set of points "breaks" or opens the power to allow the distributor coil field to collapse, creating strong spark. The gapping of these points affects the timing. When we set up a distributor on a machine, we block one set of points and adjust the "dwell" by changing the gap. Then the block is removed from the other point set, and it is adjusted to provide the correct overall "dwell". The Ford distributor can be set with other methods, such as feeler gauges, but having it done by machine also detects points with weak springs, allowing points to "bounce". The market is full of inferior quality point sets now, making machine testing and setting important.

07-06-2018, 01:01 PM	#2
revkev6 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: western Mass Posts: 365	Re: My first flathead..distributor question there are two different styles of flathead distributor. one mounts directly to the camshaft, the other is more like a late model distributor. assuming you have the original engine in that 48 it would be the front mount style. this distributor has a tab that only goes into the camshaft one way. you can remove the distributor and reinstall it without fear of timing change. they do require a fixture to set the timing out of the car though.

07-06-2018, 01:07 PM	#3
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: My first flathead..distributor question The distributor is driven by a slot in the nose of the cam. This slot is slightly offset from center in order to prevent reinstalling it out of time. As long as you are careful to get the distributor tab and the cam slot aligned, no re-timing is necessary. I would suggest marking the distributor with reference marks when you take it out in order to get it reinstalled correctly. Sorry for the repeat

07-06-2018, 01:10 PM	#5
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Re: My first flathead..distributor question OK, Thanks. That sounds good. Usually if it can be messed up, I will do just that. If it only goes in one way then I should be able to handle it. I did find the page on VanPelts web site showing how to set the timing without a fixture. That doesn't look too difficult either. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

07-06-2018, 10:20 PM	#7
fordwife Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 287	Re: My first flathead..distributor question Using Van Pelt's info. you should be able to set it up so it will run fairly well. you will need to adjust the vacuum brake according to their info.

07-07-2018, 09:39 AM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: My first flathead..distributor question For years, the post war pancake V type front mounted distributor parts were very hard to source but they are a lot more common now. Back in the 60s & 70s many were converted to the 1942 style cap or crab cap type as it is better known. They are easier to work on but they also require a sealing gasket for the cap since they could get fouled with moisture in inclement weather. Either set up can be made to work well. I disagree that these distributors need a machine to set them up but it certainly helps get them right on the money for adjustments. If the original Ford instructions are followed, they will generally work just fine. Timing can be adjusted internally only since the distributor body is fixed but really should be set up as recommended by Ford and then left that way until it needs maintenance again. It is important that the rotating advance weight unit be in good condition and smooth in function. The vacuum brake is the automatic advance/retard control for these early units. The piston has to have a good leather tip where it brakes the advance rotor unit. It needs to slide smoothly in the housing. The Ford instructions instruct the mechanic on adjustment of the piston spring pressure. Many times the adjustment remains close to the minimum since the flathead V8s don't require a lot of retard when pulling power up a hill or when hauling heavy loads.

07-06-2018, 12:38 PM	#1
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	My first flathead..distributor question My newly acquired 1948 Super Deluxe coupe is my first experience with a flathead v8 other than an old junk engine I once took apart. So... is it true that you have to remove the distributor to adjust the points on one of these? If so, will it have to be re- timed when I put it back on like on an OHV engine that gets the distributor removed? I am totally ignorant about flatheads. I have messed with OHV engines since the 60s but never a flathead.This car had been sitting for many years and I am trying to get it in driving condition. Its totally stock as far as I know. Already have the brakes started and a new gas tank and fuel lines and new fuel pump. I figure I need to see if the points need replacing before I get too involved in trying to start it. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

07-08-2018, 12:32 PM	#11
vintrex Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Near Baton Rouge, La Posts: 44	Re: My first flathead..distributor question Hello, I'm glad you asked that question because my newly acquired 47 had the distributor in parts on the front seat and the Hanging from the front of the motor so this thread was very helpful. Also you can find a YouTube video on Malory options that I just watched and found interesting as far as giving new ideas.

07-09-2018, 10:04 AM	#12
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: My first flathead..distributor question If you decide you want to explore options contact "Bubba" (Post #10, jim Linder). He is the ignition guru and a real nice guy to work with.

07-10-2018, 09:10 AM	#13
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Re: My first flathead..distributor question I got the old gal to run! Thanks for everyone's help. I am familiar with OHV engines but this is my first go at a flathead. I took off the distributor, reset the points, cleaned the rotor and replaced a bad wire to the coil and she hit and started running. First time in probably 10 years or so. I only ran it a couple of seconds to see it if would run. I am going to change the old oil before I really try to tune it up and get it driving. Still waiting on brake parts anyway so I am in no hurry. I replaced the entire fuel system up to the carb so I should have it road ready soon. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

07-11-2018, 01:43 PM	#14
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: My first flathead..distributor question It is important to know how the old Ford ignition is designed. One set of points "makes" and supplies power to the coil. The other set of points "breaks" or opens the power to allow the distributor coil field to collapse, creating strong spark. The gapping of these points affects the timing. When we set up a distributor on a machine, we block one set of points and adjust the "dwell" by changing the gap. Then the block is removed from the other point set, and it is adjusted to provide the correct overall "dwell". The Ford distributor can be set with other methods, such as feeler gauges, but having it done by machine also detects points with weak springs, allowing points to "bounce". The market is full of inferior quality point sets now, making machine testing and setting important.