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Old 01-13-2011, 01:58 PM   #1
George Miller
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Default 5 Main bearing Model A block

Here is a picture of the junk block that I put 5 mains in for the cam and crank.
This is to go with the head that I made last summer.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Looking good! Did you make your main webs, --or are these some that Dan Price made up a few years ago?


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Old 01-13-2011, 02:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

so why is it junk
or...
is this just a proto type so you can figure out what you will need to do to a good block to make it work without messing up a good block
what kind of steel are you using for the inserts (extra mains)
tk
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

also what crank are you using
tk
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Looking good! Did you make your main webs, --or are these some that Dan Price made up a few years ago?

.
No I made my own.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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George,

Your taxing my head, Chevy ll crank, Chevy rear main. Built those for midgets back
in the 70's. Have a friend doing an A for land speed, 5 main AL girdle , one piece, custom crank. Send more photos!

Dudley

UH...I take that back, it's a V/8 crank!

Last edited by d.j. moordigian; 01-13-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:23 PM   #7
Larry Brumfield
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

And to think I've seen you call yourself an Ol' Country Boy .....

That's outstanding work, George. Good job!
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Originally Posted by kelley's restoration View Post
so why is it junk
or...
is this just a proto type so you can figure out what you will need to do to a good block to make it work without messing up a good block
what kind of steel are you using for the inserts (extra mains)
tk
The lifter guides are broken, I will be redoing them any way. I would rather save the good blocks, some one might need them for a stock engine down the road.

Last edited by George Miller; 01-15-2011 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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also what crank are you using
tk
Not sure what crank and cam at this time. It will be some kind of chev, I think.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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And to think I've seen you call yourself an Ol' Country Boy .....

That's outstanding work, George. Good job!
Well I was born in the country, USA MICH.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

George, someday I am gonna have to come down there and bench race some with you.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Originally Posted by George Miller View Post
Here is a picture of the junk block that I put 5 mains in for the cam and crank.
This is to go with the head that I made last summer.

When you get mine done, call me. Herm.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

George : What kind of power are you hoping to get out of this engine when all is said and done?
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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George : What kind of power are you hoping to get out of this engine when all is said and done?
I would like 1 hp per cubic inch. They done that many years ago, so I should be able to do it now.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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The lifter guides are broken, I will be redoing them any way. I would rather save the good blocks, some one my need them for a stock engine down the road.
Good reason there George!!



Why I had asked was Dan Price had cast up some saddles a few years ago and still had a couple of sets the last I checked. I almost bought a set until I found a 5-main girdle to use.

Another crank to consider is the Hercules crank out of a forklift engine. I think the bore spacing was pretty much the same and it gave a ¼"(??) stroke. Are you gonna make your own billet rods?


As far as getting 1 hp per cu in, Hudson pretty much was doing that with their 7X Flathead. I'd say that 1.25 --or even 1.5 hp per cu inch is very do-able with your combination!

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Last edited by BRENT in 10-uh-C; 01-13-2011 at 03:56 PM. Reason: added sumthin'
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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George, someday I am gonna have to come down there and bench race some with you.
Come on down. Do you still go to old maggie valley meet in the fall. We could meet there.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Good reason there George!!



Why I had asked was Dan Price had cast up some saddles a few years ago and still had a couple of sets the last I checked. I almost bought a set until I found a 5-main girdle to use.

Another crank to consider is the Hercules crank out of a forklift engine. I think the bore spacing was pretty much the same and it gave a ¼"(??) stroke. Are you gonna make your own billet rods?

.
I will probably make my rods out of 7075. I have made some in the past.
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

This is a very interesting project! I like your style, dig in and do it! How do you plan to anchor those extra main bulkheads? They look welded in, will that be it? Are you going for a big stroke? Thanks for sharing this with everyone on the Barn.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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This is a very interesting project! I like your style, dig in and do it! How do you plan to anchor those extra main bulkheads? They look welded in, will that be it? Are you going for a big stroke? Thanks for sharing this with everyone on the Barn.
Yes they are weld in also will be pinned, and the main studs go all the way through the block just like the original, except they will be studs.
No going for a shorter stroke to reduce piston speed. Will increase the engine speed to make up for the loss of stroke.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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When you get mine done, call me. Herm.
Did you not receive it this week, is the check in the mail.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

What a beautiful job! With my machining talent and equipment I will just have to wait for Terry Burtz to come through.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

That's interesting! (to say the least) Keep the updates coming, and THANKS for sharing.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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What a beautiful job! With my machining talent and equipment I will just have to wait for Terry Burtz to come through.
DITTO!
Terry Burtz is to the 'machinist challenged' (US), as George is to himself!
Terry we are pulling for you...come on son, get it done..as we can't afford Georges' great work!! lol
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Did you not receive it this week, is the check in the mail.
The only ones that deliver here are, Yellow freight, U.P.S. and Darby Farkworts Camel train, I even looked under the entry room rug, and none have any record of delivery, I even checked with Santa, although he is still Mad about the imitation chocolate chips in the cookies, and the unstrained Goat milk, he was even unhappy about the New Playboy I left him, an he couldn't get back up the chimney. I will keep looking. thanks Herm.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #25
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DITTO!
Terry Burtz is to the 'machinist challenged' (US), as George is to himself!
Terry we are pulling for you...come on son, get it done..as we can't afford Georges' great work!! lol

If and when Burtz secures enough investors and pays them off and then works out all the bugs, George's great work may be the best deal ...
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:32 PM   #26
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The lifter guides are broken, I will be redoing them any way. I would rather save the good blocks, some one might need them for a stock engine down the road.
How do you repair a broken guide. I have a block with a piece out in the upper 1/3 of the guide, and I thought it was junk?
Chuck
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:57 AM   #27
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How do you repair a broken guide. I have a block with a piece out in the upper 1/3 of the guide, and I thought it was junk?
Chuck
Chuck you could put in a sleeve. In my case I have to move them a little.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:28 AM   #28
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

George,
Are you making it full oil pressure?

Thank you for the updates.

GW
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:55 AM   #29
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George,
Are you making it full oil pressure?

Thank you for the updates.

GW
Yes full pressure to mains, rods, cam shaft bearings.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Bored the block for 5 cam bearings, so I can run a Chev camshaft, that way I can run double valve springs, so we won't have floating valves.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:43 PM   #31
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If and when Burtz secures enough investors and pays them off and then works out all the bugs, George's great work may be the best deal ...
Well, if 'George' would/is available to work his special talents on an engine for me: HEY GEORGE,IF SO, PLEASE PM ME! Knowing that this ain't gonna happen, I turn my thoughts/resources towards Terry Burtz.
I believe in Terrys' work on his new model A block/engine and will expect to obtain a couple asap! I've followed his stated intentions and work in making his(our)dream come true, from the start! I'm sure that he has had plenty of backers, including me, offer financial and moral support for his success! It's exciting to anticipate something of this magnitude for us...like feeling of Christmas as a kid. In this case...an ole kid!!
I personally miss his participation on this site and sharing his tremendous skills...the way George does by posting, etc.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Here is a picture of the junk block that I put 5 mains in for the cam and crank.
This is to go with the head that I made last summer.
Are there any updates on these 2 projects?
They are awesome!!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #33
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

The Herc crank needs to be lengthened in the rear main area, some end for ended them and welded up a flange. Quite a project! George, you might want to think about RPM as flatheads aren't known to rev very high. A friend runs Bonneville, turned 150 in a lakester. He turns it 5500, that is as high as any flathead that I know of.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #34
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Great work, George. Something like this is a real interesting challenge.

But is 1ps per cu.inch really possible? I find it much.
However, where will you install the engine? Hopefully in a nice traditional Hot Rod.
Greetings Barney
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #35
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I'm going to watch this one, very interesting stuff going on here.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:58 PM   #36
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Are there any updates on these 2 projects?
They are awesome!!!
The block has all 5 main bearing struts in. I have a chev V8 crank in there, but that will make a uneven fire engine. So it is on hold tell I find a crank to use.
The head is all done and runs very strong. Right now I;m using the head on my hill climb car.
I have been working on my 30 pickup that was a real barn find, from a friend in Mich.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #37
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Great work, George. Something like this is a real interesting challenge.

But is 1ps per cu.inch really possible? I find it much.
However, where will you install the engine? Hopefully in a nice traditional Hot Rod.
Greetings Barney
With my over head, I think so.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Last I heard about Terry Burtz project is that he got a useable block casting. That was a couple months ago.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:48 PM   #39
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Awesome - congratulations.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:55 AM   #40
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The block has all 5 main bearing struts in. I have a chev V8 crank in there, but that will make a uneven fire engine. So it is on hold tell I find a crank to use.
The head is all done and runs very strong. Right now I;m using the head on my hill climb car.
I have been working on my 30 pickup that was a real barn find, from a friend in Mich.
What about a crank from one of the 2liter turbo engines from GM or VW? I don't know the cost or alignment issues but I'd assume it can handle the power as they are producing 135hp per liter.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:35 PM   #41
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I'm going to watch this one, very interesting stuff going on here.
Somehow I missed this thread until just now. This will be interesting to watch, as well as Terry's engine.

I no longer get the Burtz engine updates since I've had to change my email due to a hacker. Each time I get hacked I loose all my emails and contacts.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #42
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What about a crank from one of the 2liter turbo engines from GM or VW? I don't know the cost or alignment issues but I'd assume it can handle the power as they are producing 135hp per liter.
The problem you run in to is the Model A engine is wide between 2and3 so the crank rod journals will not line up with the bore. I have one out of the chev 4 cylinder engine that was in the chev 2 . It would work if the journals would line up..

The engine you talked about, I have no knowledge about. I will check them out.

I was hopping Terry would get his engine done. Then I could by one of his cranks. But at almost 76 I might run out of time, before he gets it done.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:59 PM   #43
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The problem you run in to is the Model A engine is wide between 2and3 so the crank rod journals will not line up with the bore. I have one out of the chev 4 cylinder engine that was in the chev 2 . It would work if the journals would line up..

The engine you talked about, I have no knowledge about. I will check them out.

I was hopping Terry would get his engine done. Then I could by one of his cranks. But at almost 76 I might run out of time, before he gets it done.
I *think* the GM one is code LTG : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine#LTG


The VW one I'm not sure other than I think its refered to as the 2.0TFSI.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:49 AM   #44
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

What is the advantage of using a late model crank, such as those listed? They are all a much shorter stroke so the cubic inch displacement will be a lot less. You would have to turn a lot more RPM to compensate for the smaller engine size, and a flathead engine loses breathing efficiency at high RPM. Plus, you'd need a long duration camshaft to make power at high RPM, so the low RPM power output goes in the toilet.
Thanks for enlightening me!
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:51 AM   #45
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What is the advantage of using a late model crank, such as those listed? They are all a much shorter stroke so the cubic inch displacement will be a lot less. You would have to turn a lot more RPM to compensate for the smaller engine size, and a flathead engine loses breathing efficiency at high RPM. Plus, you'd need a long duration camshaft to make power at high RPM, so the low RPM power output goes in the toilet.
Thanks for enlightening me!


40 Deluxe,

The GM 2 liter is rated to produce 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 1700-5500 rpm which is a lot more than the stock "A" engine, of course its directed injected and turbocharged which I'm not sure what Mr Miller is after in the end.

I have no idea what the stroke is vs the "A" I simply posted them as ideas as I knew the cranks could handle power. The rest was up to Mr Miller as I know he knows what he is doing. I simply tossed it out there as ideas of 4 cyl cranks.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:09 AM   #46
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What is the advantage of using a late model crank, such as those listed? They are all a much shorter stroke so the cubic inch displacement will be a lot less. You would have to turn a lot more RPM to compensate for the smaller engine size, and a flathead engine loses breathing efficiency at high RPM. Plus, you'd need a long duration camshaft to make power at high RPM, so the low RPM power output goes in the toilet.
Thanks for enlightening me!
Thanks for your concern. First off it will not be a flat head. I'm going to use the over head valve head that I made a year or so ago. The head is built to breath, it is a cross flow with big valves.

I want horse power not toque. I want to have a wide rpm range. You are not going to get that with a long stroke engine. If you do the math on the piston speed of a 4 1/4 stroke verses a 3 1/2 you will see there is a big difference at 5000 rpms. There for a lot less friction. If it was going to be a big truck hauling big loads you would want the torque.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #47
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Wow, George, I'm definately impressed. If you make the rods out of 7075, will you add the wrist-pin bushings and insert bearings, or will you run directly against the 7075 aluminum? Curious minds would like to know...
Best Regards, Chris
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Wow, George, I'm definately impressed. If you make the rods out of 7075, will you add the wrist-pin bushings and insert bearings, or will you run directly against the 7075 aluminum? Curious minds would like to know...
Best Regards, Chris
The last set of rods that I made from 7075 I ran the wrist pins tight in the rods, with no bushing. I have used bushings one time before. Seems to work ok with out bushings. Will use insert bearings.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:31 AM   #49
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

George, Guess I missed the fact that you are going overhead on this. The short stroke makes more sense now!
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:31 PM   #50
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Up date I'm not working on this for now. Had some trouble with the camshaft, so decided to work on the old engine that I run before for the hill climb car. We will still use my home built cylinder head. It is running very strong right now. After the hill climb I will get back on the 5 main.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:25 PM   #51
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Up date I'm not working on this for now. Had some trouble with the camshaft, so decided to work on the old engine that I run before for the hill climb car. We will still use my home built cylinder head. It is running very strong right now. After the hill climb I will get back on the 5 main.
Hey George,
Thanks for update on both !
What is the compression ratio with your newly made Miller OHV Head ?
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:07 PM   #52
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Hey George,
Thanks for update on both !
What is the compression ratio with your newly made Miller OHV Head ?
I could not say what the compression is, I never checked it. My guise would be 7-1
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:11 AM   #53
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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I could not say what the compression is, I never checked it. My guise would be 7-1
Hey George,
Thanks !
Are your pistons even with block ? Do you have picture of comp chamber to share ?

Curiosity ?
Do you use model A crank; B crank or modified crank ?

Last edited by hardtimes; 03-04-2017 at 01:13 AM. Reason: ............
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:13 AM   #54
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Hey George,
Thanks !
Are your pistons even with block ? Do you have picture of comp chamber to share ?

Curiosity ?
Do you use model A crank; B crank or modified crank ?
Yes the pistons are even with block. The old engine is a model A crank. The 5 main is a chev 327 crank.

There are more pictures on my making of a cylinder head post. I will re post it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cylinder head2 002.jpg (73.5 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg cylinder head2 001.jpg (53.0 KB, 114 views)
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Old 03-04-2017, 04:27 PM   #55
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Yes the pistons are even with block. The old engine is a model A crank. The 5 main is a chev 327 crank.

There are more pictures on my making of a cylinder head post. I will re post it.
Thanks George,
Get more info every time read , from pictures and info !

Since you are skilled enough to make such equipment, can you also make ANY combustion chamber that you like (thinking hemi chamber) or are there limits to chamber design, in your opinion ?
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:31 AM   #56
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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Thanks George,
Get more info every time read , from pictures and info !

Since you are skilled enough to make such equipment, can you also make ANY combustion chamber that you like (thinking hemi chamber) or are there limits to chamber design, in your opinion ?
I never did a hemi, but I' m sure I could. Do they use hemi heads on race engines? I do not know.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:24 PM   #57
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

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I never did a hemi, but I' m sure I could. Do they use hemi heads on race engines? I do not know.
Hey George,
'do they use hemi heads on race engines' ?....LOL
Ha...does a bear defecate in the woods ?
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:21 PM   #58
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Back working on this engine and my home built cylinder head. Had the back have of the cam off a few degrees. When I put it in the engine I had to cut it in the middle and add the gear for the dist and oil pump. The cam is for a 327 chev to match the crankshaft. I messed up on the rear of of the cam timing.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:43 PM   #59
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Default Re: 5 Main bearing Model A block

Hm, Miller...where have I heard that name before ? You didn't have a Miller relative (circa 20s/30s) who 'tinkered' with engines, do you !!

Glad to see that you are keeping the grey matter busy George
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