The Ford Barn

mountinpie · 10-13-2017, 01:40 PM

So, I've gotten the sheet metal including the doors, cowl, hood, etc. fitting pretty well. In general, I believe the sheet metal is in pretty good shape. Part of the car has been painted black lacquer and part of it is in spotty primer and filler...this was done probably 20 years ago. As I pick up the body work again, I was hoping for some help with my plan of attack.

First, should I strip/sand off the lacquer paint on the exterior of the car down to the primer, trying to save the primer?
Should I leave the inside as-is, with the exception of the rust under the rear seat?
Next, I figure I'll get the sheet metal as close to perfect as I can on the entire car.
Treat the minor surface rust on the bare metal areas.
Primer or re-primer the entire car.
Add bondo, etc. and sand as needed.
Then primer/filler and block sand to get ready for paint.

Is that a reasonable plan or are there other steps I should be taking?

Thanks.

Dennis Pereira · 10-13-2017, 02:36 PM

The problem the way I see it is if you don't take it to bare metal then you may have problems with another coating sticking.

fordcragar · 10-13-2017, 02:51 PM

I have to agree with Dennis. Not knowing what is in the old materials could cause you problems later. I'm leery of new paint, because you don't know what will pop up later too.

flatford39 · 10-13-2017, 03:37 PM

You can shoot enamel over lacquer but you can't shoot lacquer over enamel. It's preferred to go to bare metal but in your case I would just follow your plan.

desotoguy · 10-13-2017, 05:34 PM

Are you going to paint it yourself, or do the work described, and have a body shop apply the finish coat. Striping old lacquer is a messy job.

mountinpie · 10-13-2017, 06:35 PM

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My dad did the painting to this point and it's likely we'll finish it together.

Since things have changed so much since he last painted, I was hoping to get the groups thoughts on how to proceed.

NCRebel · 10-13-2017, 07:22 PM

I was trained as a airframe/powertrain mech. on Army Huey's 1970's. The rule is strip to bare metal, clean with MEK (methyl, Ethyol, Ketone) then prime with zinc chromate for aluminum skin. Any paints after that (either lacquer, enamel or polymers) will build in layers that bond to the previous coat. Steel and bondo surfaces will take a enamel primer better before paint.

As stated before, enamel on lacquer is fine, lacquer over enamel or acrylic will bubble, curdle and destroy the lower layers.

J Franklin · 10-13-2017, 08:41 PM

If you and dad trust the work already done, I think you could just prep it by cleaning and doing any necessary body and prep work and not worry about bare metal. A fine sanding to promote adhesion on the lacquer might be all that's needed.

aermotor · 10-14-2017, 05:39 AM

I am certainly no painting expert but in my experience in your second picture, the bare metal spots will show as high points in the final finish. I don't know how to correct this from happening.

John

Terry, NJ · 10-14-2017, 07:40 AM

Get that old lacquer off. I'm not a body man (I don't like it and I just do what I have to) but I've always heard you can't paint over lacquer, except with more lacquer, Why fight it? Take it off. Pickle the steel with vinegar, neutralize with water, then phosphoric acid, then the Metal Fusion, then a coat of epoxy primer, sand a little. Then then sandable primer and Bondo. Get two colors, for a guide coat and block sand with finer and finer grits. Do it right! Or as close to "right" as possible. We have better methods and materials today.
Terry

mountinpie · 10-14-2017, 08:13 AM

Thanks Terry. I think I'll at least take it down to the primer. Thoughts on paper/methods for removing the lacquer?

Also, can you elaborate on the two colors?

Brent

Terry, NJ · 10-14-2017, 10:13 AM

Sorry, the best way to remove paint I've found, is with a large 7" grinder with a large wire wheel. Tears the old paint and body work (Yesterday's Bondo) off in a short time. The downside is that it flings little wire arrows off the brush. Don't ignore a product called "Metal Fusion" you put this on the bare metal. It's about $20 a quart and it's great for "Roughing out" badly distorted metal. The guy who showed me this is a restorer for the AACA. Then paint with Epoxy primer to seal the metal. I don't trust large, thick Bondo patches. Bondo goes on over the paint Thin coats only! This is analogous to repairing a hole in a wall with joint compound. As it dries, it cracks. Best to fix the holes with Plaster of Paris, then spackle. Plaster of Paris doesn't shrink. I'm not a body man or a painter, so this is what I've picked up from from guys who are. And there are always personal opinions about any products. Best of luck with it!
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountinpie

Thanks Terry. I think I'll at least take it down to the primer. Thoughts on paper/methods for removing the lacquer?

Also, can you elaborate on the two colors?

Brent

Terry, NJ · 10-14-2017, 10:25 AM

About the two colors. I bought all grey for mine but then I wanted a "Guide coat" to tell me how much I'm taking off. So I had the guy at the paint store whip me up a quart of darker grey to contrast with the previous coat. Thinking about it, It'll help my colors by being darker underneath (Black and Dark Green). The lighter colors tend to "shine through" and give a lighter Cast to what I wanted to be a dark color.
Terry

Dennis Pereira · 10-14-2017, 10:39 AM

In photo #4 the finish is clearly failing from past experience the only safe way is to take down to bare metal and start over.

J Franklin · 10-14-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

In photo #4 the finish is clearly failing from past experience the only safe way is to take down to bare metal and start over.

Agree, I thought that was a picture of the spare parts. That primer is most likely lacquer also.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-14-2017, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountinpie

Thanks Terry. I think I'll at least take it down to the primer. Thoughts on paper/methods for removing the lacquer?

Also, can you elaborate on the two colors?

Brent

Actually that is an 'old skool' method but can be a bit troublesome for a small hobbyist that does not use that much product. Instead, do a search for 3M 5861 Guidecoat. We use it quite a bit and it is a dry rub that coats the surface yet sands away so you can see where you have sanded.

Hoovercw · 10-14-2017, 11:14 PM

I used an orbital sander and had my Tudor down to bare metal within about two hours. The crevices were sandblasted after that. I did have my hood and fenders off. I had them soda blasted. Soda blasting was a waste of money. I should have just done it myself with sander or chemical. Once you start filling and block sanding the primers you will look fondly back on the stripping process. It's one of the easiest parts.

10-13-2017, 02:36 PM	#2
Dennis Pereira Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Georgetown Divide Kelsey ca Posts: 868	Re: Body work The problem the way I see it is if you don't take it to bare metal then you may have problems with another coating sticking. __________________ Dennis in Kelsey ca

10-13-2017, 02:51 PM	#3
fordcragar Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 479	Re: Body work I have to agree with Dennis. Not knowing what is in the old materials could cause you problems later. I'm leery of new paint, because you don't know what will pop up later too.

10-13-2017, 05:34 PM	#5
desotoguy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Greenwood SC Posts: 294	Re: Body work Are you going to paint it yourself, or do the work described, and have a body shop apply the finish coat. Striping old lacquer is a messy job.

10-13-2017, 06:35 PM	#6
mountinpie Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Shippensburg, PA Posts: 48	Re: Body work Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) My dad did the painting to this point and it's likely we'll finish it together. Since things have changed so much since he last painted, I was hoping to get the groups thoughts on how to proceed.

10-13-2017, 07:22 PM	#7
NCRebel Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 102	Re: Body work I was trained as a airframe/powertrain mech. on Army Huey's 1970's. The rule is strip to bare metal, clean with MEK (methyl, Ethyol, Ketone) then prime with zinc chromate for aluminum skin. Any paints after that (either lacquer, enamel or polymers) will build in layers that bond to the previous coat. Steel and bondo surfaces will take a enamel primer better before paint. As stated before, enamel on lacquer is fine, lacquer over enamel or acrylic will bubble, curdle and destroy the lower layers.

10-13-2017, 03:37 PM	#4
flatford39 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 499	Re: Body work You can shoot enamel over lacquer but you can't shoot lacquer over enamel. It's preferred to go to bare metal but in your case I would just follow your plan.

10-13-2017, 08:41 PM	#8
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Body work If you and dad trust the work already done, I think you could just prep it by cleaning and doing any necessary body and prep work and not worry about bare metal. A fine sanding to promote adhesion on the lacquer might be all that's needed.

10-14-2017, 05:39 AM	#9
aermotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,099	Re: Body work I am certainly no painting expert but in my experience in your second picture, the bare metal spots will show as high points in the final finish. I don't know how to correct this from happening. John

10-14-2017, 07:40 AM	#10
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Body work Get that old lacquer off. I'm not a body man (I don't like it and I just do what I have to) but I've always heard you can't paint over lacquer, except with more lacquer, Why fight it? Take it off. Pickle the steel with vinegar, neutralize with water, then phosphoric acid, then the Metal Fusion, then a coat of epoxy primer, sand a little. Then then sandable primer and Bondo. Get two colors, for a guide coat and block sand with finer and finer grits. Do it right! Or as close to "right" as possible. We have better methods and materials today. Terry

10-14-2017, 08:13 AM	#11
mountinpie Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Shippensburg, PA Posts: 48	Re: Body work Thanks Terry. I think I'll at least take it down to the primer. Thoughts on paper/methods for removing the lacquer? Also, can you elaborate on the two colors? Brent

10-14-2017, 10:25 AM	#13
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Body work About the two colors. I bought all grey for mine but then I wanted a "Guide coat" to tell me how much I'm taking off. So I had the guy at the paint store whip me up a quart of darker grey to contrast with the previous coat. Thinking about it, It'll help my colors by being darker underneath (Black and Dark Green). The lighter colors tend to "shine through" and give a lighter Cast to what I wanted to be a dark color. Terry

10-14-2017, 10:39 AM	#14
Dennis Pereira Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Georgetown Divide Kelsey ca Posts: 868	Re: Body work In photo #4 the finish is clearly failing from past experience the only safe way is to take down to bare metal and start over. __________________ Dennis in Kelsey ca

10-14-2017, 11:14 PM	#17
Hoovercw Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 63	Re: Body work I used an orbital sander and had my Tudor down to bare metal within about two hours. The crevices were sandblasted after that. I did have my hood and fenders off. I had them soda blasted. Soda blasting was a waste of money. I should have just done it myself with sander or chemical. Once you start filling and block sanding the primers you will look fondly back on the stripping process. It's one of the easiest parts.