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Old 06-11-2019, 11:52 PM   #1
Chris Haynes
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Default In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Specifically the bolts that hold the rear end banjo to axle housings. Gennie Ford bolts don't have treads running all the way to the head of the bolt. This is to reduce leakage past the bolts.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Tough to find a correct bolt that has the right size to start with...most std has a smaller diameter then some of the originals that was fit bolts...for centering and added strenght.
Getting an unthreaded part is just taking a longer bolt and cutting down the threaded part..
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:48 AM   #3
Frank Miller
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Thread sealer will reduce leakage. More importantly I believe those threads are an interference fit. Do you want SS so they look shiny. Original were painted black.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Keep in mind that as a general rule SS is weaker than the original bolts and more pron to break. I would be sure to check the torque values if you use SS.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Keep in mind that as a general rule SS is weaker than the original bolts and more pron to break. I would be sure to check the torque values if you use SS.
JSerry, we have bantered about before on "strength" and "torque" questions before, has it ever actually been established just what strength the bolts were in these cars originally when they were built??? Not that much on these V8's could use something stronger than a standard Grade 2 bolt to do the job. I had always wanted to ask Roy Nacewicz what he had his fastener's manufactured to (as to grade) as I never did see any info pertaining to that??? Currently I use my lathe to "turn" the Grade markings & mill stamps off the heads of bolts in a pinch.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:50 AM   #6
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

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Locktite Blue is a good thread sealer when applied as to their directions.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

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JSerry, we have bantered about before on "strength" and "torque" questions before, has it ever actually been established just what strength the bolts were in these cars originally when they were built??? Not that much on these V8's could use something stronger than a standard Grade 2 bolt to do the job. I had always wanted to ask Roy Nacewicz what he had his fastener's manufactured to (as to grade) as I never did see any info pertaining to that??? Currently I use my lathe to "turn" the Grade markings & mill stamps off the heads of bolts in a pinch.
Good question, the original Ford bolts always seemed to be of a good quality to me, but no idea what they really were. Would assume the specifications would have called them out but never seen anyone report on them. You should be able to get somewhat of a clue using the original Ford torque recommendations. My issue with SS is I have broken a far share of them, enough to not be a fan. There is just not much yield before they snap. And they are a bit more difficult to remove once broken off. If someone likes the look, it should be fine as long as you keep that in mind.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:08 AM   #8
Karl Wescott
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

I had an illuminating discussion with Roy Nacewicz several months ago. He revealed that the Ford nuts, bolts, etc with a 5 digit part number (for example 20301-S2 1/4-20x3/8 hex head bolt) were standard "hardware store" items... Subject to the manufacturing culture of the time of course. Hardware with a 6 digit part number were special and Ford engineered. One would have to go to the Ford Engineering blueprint to get the correct specifications.


If I am reading my 1937 chassis part book (reprint) correctly the 18 or 48-4025 rear axle differential housing calls for a 350509-S screw, indicating a Ford Engineered item, not a standard hardware item.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Thanks JSerry & Karl


Very sage advice JSerry, I run into the SS (and its relative strength) issue everyday here at work and have to correct (relay as you did) the fact that its not "as strong" as most people think. Yes, Karl, as I posted above....I think 80% (approx) of these cars can use standard old hardware store grade 2 bolts BUT as I stated the issue could be either A307 grade marking at best AND usually a manufacturers mill stamp at worst. AS I posted in those cases (and where a stronger Grd 5 or Grd 8 bolt may be needed) I put them in my lathe and turn the "marking" off the head, then use 600gt on a DA sander while spinning in the lathe to smooth them off. Thanks so much for you guys imput.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Good information Karl, thanks.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:54 AM   #11
J Franklin
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

A HF nut splitter I tried once broke in half without leaving even a mark on a Ford nut!!!!!
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

"Correct" stainless steel hardware? An oxymoron for certain.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
Specifically the bolts that hold the rear end banjo to axle housings. Gennie Ford bolts don't have treads running all the way to the head of the bolt. This is to reduce leakage past the bolts.
I no longer recall if the authentic bolts were cut with a taper or the threaded holes in the gear housing were tapered. This area was designed to seal at the threads much like a pipe fitting thread.
It seems to me the bolts were special but the ol' memory ain't what it used to be.
David R., can you weigh in here?
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

If you want shiny; get the original Ford banjo bolts chromed.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Totally Stainless has high grade stainless bolts.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:22 PM   #16
DavidG
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Mike,


I believe that the threads in the ring and pinion housing are tapered and one should never run a tap in those holes to clean them as they will rue the result.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: In search of correct Stainless Steel hardware

Boy, I’m just too old fashioned. To me nothing beats the look of original unmarked thick headed bolts.

With that said one of the model a vendors used to sell the bolts you are hunting in stainless but without any shoulder of sorts. The Model A used the same bolts with the exception of the torque tube bolts. I built a model A rear for a guy locally and he supplied stainless bolts from whichever vendor it was... they didn’t leak and worked but the end result too me looked too much like a Home Depot hardware isle.
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