Timed my roadster - now runs worse

[rivcokid]

I was told that timing the car would take care of several issues, and it was a good idea to do it periodically anyway. So, armed with my Nu-rex, I followed the instructions step by step, finding TDC etc. Put everything back, and it was harder to start. When I got it started and took it out, it was like I was towing a Mack truck behind it. Little power in all gears, and it really lumbered up even the shallowest of hills. Playing with the timing lever seemed to do no good, or at least nothing appreciable.

So, of course, my question is - what did this novice do wrong, and what should I do to rectify it so I can drive it?

Thanks, always, in advance . . . . .

[Synchro909]

Getting the best out of your A (bad mental image there) is a balance between ignition timing and fuel via your GAV setting. Have you fiddled the GAV? If so, I suspect the timing is retarded.

[rivcokid]

Yes - worked the GAV while traveling with little effect.

[1crosscut]

Give it another go. Perhaps you just had a brain fart and didn't do it right.
The NuRex is pretty bullet proof for getting you close.
Did you have the spark advance lever in the full up position?
Or possibly didn't get the cam screw tight enough and it moved on you.

Once your timing is set you shouldn't have to mess with it for a very long time.

[Jacksonlll]

Make sure your condenser is not disconnected, assuming you did time it correctly. You might just put a little windage in the timing. Loosen the cam screw and move it a scosh counterclockwise. It’s timed good when you get a little cackle when you push the spark lever up. (At idle). If you don’t get that, your timing is off. Good luck. The A engine really wants to run good.

[zzlegend]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Did you have your spark advance lever,,,,all the way up, before you started this process?

[jm29henry]

There is a great timing video on YouTube that Jackson!!! Made to help us novice.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by rivcokid

I was told that timing the car would take care of several issues, and it was a good idea to do it periodically anyway. So, armed with my Nu-rex, I followed the instructions step by step, finding TDC etc. Put everything back, and it was harder to start. When I got it started and took it out, it was like I was towing a Mack truck behind it. Little power in all gears, and it really lumbered up even the shallowest of hills. Playing with the timing lever seemed to do no good, or at least nothing appreciable.

So, of course, my question is - what did this novice do wrong, and what should I do to rectify it so I can drive it?

Thanks, always, in advance . . . . .

A couple of suggestions: First, be careful where you get your advice! There are so many urban legends floating around on timing and tuning a Model A that it'll make your head spin! Just stick to the factory procedure in the owner's manual for simplicity's sake. All you need to keep in mind is that this procedure only sets base, or initial timing (for starting purposes only). As soon as the engine starts you pull the timing lever down part-way, which advances the timing. As you you increase RPM, you move the timing lever down some more, which advances the timing further.
So, set the point gap at .020" (or .018"-.022" per factory manual) then follow the procedure for setting the points cam and tighten the screw. You have now set the timing(initial) for the life of the engine! Leave it alone! Keep the point gap at .020" and your timing will always be correct.
Eventually the timing gears will wear which will retard the timing slightly. Just advance the timing lever an extra click or two and you automatically have compensated for this wear! Don't over complicate things!

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

A couple of suggestions: First, be careful where you get your advice! There are so many urban legends floating around on timing and tuning a Model A that it'll make your head spin! Just stick to the factory procedure in the owner's manual for simplicity's sake. All you need to keep in mind is that this procedure only sets base, or initial timing (for starting purposes only). As soon as the engine starts you pull the timing lever down part-way, which advances the timing. As you you increase RPM, you move the timing lever down some more, which advances the timing further.
So, set the point gap at .020" (or .018"-.022" per factory manual) then follow the procedure for setting the points cam and tighten the screw. You have now set the timing(initial) for the life of the engine! Leave it alone! Keep the point gap at .020" and your timing will always be correct.
Eventually the timing gears will wear which will retard the timing slightly. Just advance the timing lever an extra click or two and you automatically have compensated for this wear! Don't over complicate things!

This is indeed very good advice. Follow this and you can't go wrong!

[Jack Shaft]

The power loss from improper valve timing due to a worn timing gear cannot be made up for by advancing ignition timing.

[katy]

Did you clean the points after setting the timing?

[WHN]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

A couple of suggestions: First, be careful where you get your advice! There are so many urban legends floating around on timing and tuning a Model A that it'll make your head spin! Just stick to the factory procedure in the owner's manual for simplicity's sake. All you need to keep in mind is that this procedure only sets base, or initial timing (for starting purposes only). As soon as the engine starts you pull the timing lever down part-way, which advances the timing. As you you increase RPM, you move the timing lever down some more, which advances the timing further.
So, set the point gap at .020" (or .018"-.022" per factory manual) then follow the procedure for setting the points cam and tighten the screw. You have now set the timing(initial) for the life of the engine! Leave it alone! Keep the point gap at .020" and your timing will always be correct.
Eventually the timing gears will wear which will retard the timing slightly. Just advance the timing lever an extra click or two and you automatically have compensated for this wear! Don't over complicate things!

In all my years playing around with these cars, I never really thought of this.

You are so right, once timing is set properly, you could be good to go for many, many years and miles.

Our 1929 was professional tuned by a Model A Engine restoration expert over 20 years ago. Since than we have changed points, plugs, rotors, and caps, but we never have re-done the timing. Car runs like a clock.

If it isn’t broken, don’t try to fix it. We have all been there. Enjoy.

[1931 flamingo]

Never mind TDC, did you find the dimple??
Paul in CT

[Purdy Swoft]

When the points are replaced , the points cam and upper breaker plate must be removed and replaced . Any time that the points cam is removed and replaced . The points cam must be replaced , pointing in the same EXACT position or the timing will change , that is if the timing was exactly correct in the first place . Points gap effects timing . More gap advances less gap retards .Ford specs for points gap was anywhere from eighteen to twenty two thousands as necessary . The spark happens when the points begin to open . When the rotor tip points at the number one contact in the distributor cap with NO counter clockwise backlash . The points should be adjusted to be just ready to open . That is why the specs for gap can vary .

[blgitn]

I have accidentally timed to #2 before....

[zzlegend]

I have emailed this picture to two different people that called me on how to time their A's.
I talked to them on the phone on how to install the pin, have spark lever up, take the slack out of the rotor, and just set to look like the picture and check that the points are just starting to open. Can't hardly go wrong for a ball park setting. So easy. Thanks to Tom W. for the picture.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

I have emailed this picture to two different people that called me on how to time their A's.
I talked to them on the phone on how to install the pin, have spark lever up, take the slack out of the rotor, and just set to look like the picture and check that the points are just starting to open. Can't hardly go wrong for a ball park setting. So easy. Thanks to Tom W. for the picture.

It would be a lot easier to set when the points just start to open if you remove the rotor! It's just in the way for setting the timing.

[katy]

It would be a lot easier to set when the points just start to open if you remove the rotor! It's just in the way for setting the timing.

Ditto

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

It would be a lot easier to set when the points just start to open if you remove the rotor! It's just in the way for setting the timing.

Well, i would like to think common sense would come in to play since the screw has to be loosened and the point cam has to be rotated some what which means the rotor has to be removed.

[Bob C]

Just take an old rotor and drill out the center so you can get to the screw slot.


Bob

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Just take an old rotor and drill out the center so you can get to the screw slot.
Bob

Why not just do it right like Ford outlined? Take the rotor off and do it by the Ford manual!

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Why not just do it right like Ford outlined? Take the rotor off and do it by the Ford manual!

Sounds right to me.

[Kurt in NJ]

Then read the next paragraph in the owners instruction book-- how to test that you have the timing set correctly--- as you hand crank it push in the pin, as it drops in the recess spark should occur

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Just take an old rotor and drill out the center so you can get to the screw slot.


Bob

But why??

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

But why??

Makes it easy to set it like in post #16.
Also I guess you could ask why for the wrench in the picture.

[updraught]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

If it's an old engine with low compression, say 50 psi or so then it may need to be advanced to give it some zip and zing on todays fuels. Maybe that is what the previous owner did.
Good to know how much compression you have anyway.

[ABento]

I also have a nu rex tool, and had the same issue of how it ran, this was on a BB, but it times the same, just no advance lever, I also used it on an A a few days ago and the way the wrench set it it was no where close to what the book says for setting the cam to where the points are just starting to open, about the only good I see in the tool is to hold the cam in place in case the screw was to turn it.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by updraught

If it's an old engine with low compression, say 50 psi or so then it may need to be advanced to give it some zip and zing on todays fuels. Maybe that is what the previous owner did.
Good to know how much compression you have anyway.

Since the timing lever gives a total of 40 deg. advance when fully down, there would be no need to mess with the setting of the distributor cam! 40 deg. is more than enough advance, even for a worn engine.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Since the timing lever gives a total of 40 deg. advance when fully down, there would be no need to mess with the setting of the distributor cam! 40 deg. is more than enough advance, even for a worn engine.

Well, maybe it is not advancing 40 degrees then. If it is noisier than previously, it is retarded compared to what it was.

[ryanheacox]

It's been mentioned before but I'll ask again, did you make sure the point gap was correct before re-timing the engine? I've been stumped on the side of the road when my car started losing power and couldn't climb any hill just like you say. Then I remembered I installed a new set of points about 100 miles before, sure enough the gap had closed to almost nothing. Opened it up and away I went.


Also, could not agree more that once the base timing is set, do not mess with it again! I will also say that checking for spark at #1 when the pin drops into the dimple is the best and easiest sanity check to make sure your timing is set correctly.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by ABento

I also have a nu rex tool, and had the same issue of how it ran, this was on a BB, but it times the same, just no advance lever, I also used it on an A a few days ago and the way the wrench set it it was no where close to what the book says for setting the cam to where the points are just starting to open, about the only good I see in the tool is to hold the cam in place in case the screw was to turn it.

I called Nurex when this tool first came out and they said it would not work on the B distributor.

[1crosscut]

Lots of good advice. Unfortunately Rivokid hasn't looked at this thread since shortly after he posted the original question and replied in post #3.

[jg61hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xc7r0djEKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zju4nagtiCU


here are two videos part one and two of Les Andrews with pictures explaining the situation. I too found the Nu Rex tool was getting me in the ballpark, but when I manually did it with a test light as described here in the video and better so in his book, I had a better run. remember in the book it talks about CW and CCW ...pay attention...clockwise and counterclockwise!! I found his red book pretty easy to follow but you need a voltage light...

[mach0415]

Originally Posted by jg61hawk

here are two videos part one and two of Les Andrews with pictures explaining the situation. I too found the Nu Rex tool was getting me in the ballpark, but when I manually did it with a test light as described here in the video and better so in his book, I had a better run. remember in the book it talks about CW and CCW ...pay attention...clockwise and counterclockwise!! I found his red book pretty easy to follow but you need a voltage light...

X2 I bought the NuRex tool and found that it gets it close, but a test light nails it for me too.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

Lots of good advice. Unfortunately Rivokid hasn't looked at this thread since shortly after he posted the original question and replied in post #3.

Maybe he broke down about 100 miles from home. May never hear from him again. But then again, a lot of posters never come back to give updates. Ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now back to mowing my lawn.

[burner31]

Easy solution
Just do it again

[Karl]

I must admit I have used the Nurex and have never been particulary impressed with it.
I normally time mine by finding TDC set the rotor up on number one then rotate the cam counter clockwise ( Removes backlash) and adjust the cam so that the slightest movement clockwise opens the points then lock the cam down .Easy quick and effective