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Old 05-28-2020, 12:19 AM   #1
Brian
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Default brake problem

I've been converting my 35 to Bendix style brakes. I cannot get a pedal....
I am convinced the RH front wheel cylinder is bad.
Long story, but I'll try to give all relevant details to enable you to make a diagnosis.
Master cylinder and all wheel cylinders were purchased from Summit. When they arrived, the m/c was made in Taiwan, all wheel cyl's were chink.
Master cylinder 1 1/16 bore. Front wheel cylinders 1 1/8 bore. Rear w/c's 7/8 bore.
I am running a remote reservoir up on the firewall with a line into top of m/c.

Fitted everything up to discover the rear wheel cyl's were tapped 3/8 24 UNF. Does not suit the 7/16 tube nuts required for Ford 1/4" lines.

Ordered more rear cylinders from James @ Gotham City...
Fitted them and plumbed up.
Attempted to bleed all brakes. No pedal.
By a process of elimination; plug the tee at back of master cylinder that runs to front brakes, I could get a good hard, high pedal which indicates to me that the rear brakes are 'sweet'. Plumb in the front brakes, pedal goes to floor. No leaks apparent anywhere. Reading on here that some chinkee cylinders don't have the bleed nipple at top of bore, I've unbolted front cylinders from backing plates, leaving the hoses attached, removed the links and boots, and used Gclamps and plastic endcaps to prevent the pistons from being blown outta the bores, I again bled the cylinders, being able to position them in various positions to preclude the possibility of any air remaining. Good hard, high pedal.
Left overnite. Next morning, pedal was still the same, so removed Gclamps etc, fitted links and boots, bolted wheel cylinders back onto backing plates, refitted shoes, springs drums. Still a good hard pedal. Left overnite....
This morning still the same, so refitted wheels, took car for a spin; pedal goes to floor. Only the rear brakes would lock up on my gravel driveway.
Back home, attempt to bled brakes; no air is coming out, only fluid.
If I clamp visegrips on the rh hose, pedal is high and hard. This indicates to me that the rh cylinder, I dunno, seems to be sucking air in somewhere. Again, no sign of leakage anywhere.
This rather long narrative is really a very condensed account of what I've been attempting for the past two months.
I am sure that James at Gotham City could supply 'decent' cylinders, but it is impossible to get anything from the US of late [no planes].
Or....have I diagnosed this incorrectly?
Bear in mind, my car is RHD; the brake line Tee's off off the RH side to the RH wheel before continuing around to the LHS
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: brake problem

Using 39 pedal assembly, and yes, I have a bit of free travel before pushrod contacts end of m/c piston
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: brake problem

Is everything adjusted properly?
Do you have a cracked brake drum, let a friend brake and put you hands on the drum.
Problems withe the bake hose ,let a friend brake and put you hands on the brake hose.

Switch the cylinders left to right, and see if the fault follows the cylinder.
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: brake problem

Possible need of residual valves ?
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:01 AM   #5
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: brake problem

A while back some brake cyls were made wrong, something about the bleed or return hole in the wrong place...............
Paul in CT
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:04 AM   #6
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: brake problem

You have not said whether you have a single or dual master cylinder installed.
In a similar situation with a dual master cylinder installed the solution was to install 'Speed bleeders' and bleed accordingly.
This may or may not work but may be worth a shot.
Why are you using 1/4" brake lines??



Attached Images
File Type: jpg SPEED BLEEDERS.jpg (85.5 KB, 339 views)
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: brake problem

What kind of Bendix brakes?

What adjustment procedure are you using?

Anchor pin adjusted to center the shoes?

Adjust the brakes tight and see where the pedal goes.
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:20 PM   #8
Brian
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Default Re: brake problem

Brake drums not cracked, they are nos
Residual valves? Why? isn't the residual valve built into the m/c? And, having the remote reservoir mounted up on the firewall actually adds a slight 'head'.
Brake cylinders made wrong? Yes, I am convinced these w/c's are wrong. Only way I can bleed all air out, is to unbolt from back plates, whilst still attached to hoses, G clamp across ends of cylinders to prevent pistons popping out, and 'manipulating' them into such a position as to get all air out. Re-assemble everything, still good. Drive the 'beast' and upon first application of brakes, pedal goes to floor!
Single circuit, Lockheed style m/c with 1 1/16 bore.
Why 1/4" lines? Dunno, ask Henry Ford.
Speed bleeders could be a bit hard to get out of the USA right now, I have, during all my efforts, wrapped thread tape around the threads of all the bleed nipples.
39 Lincoln brakes
Yes, have set all shoes hard out against drums and set handbrake, and had good hard, high pedal. Then, when I drive this thing and apply brakes, pedal goes to floor. Repeated pumping brings about a spongy pedal that still goes to floor.
Much angst!!
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: brake problem

NOS does not mean Not Cracked.
Have you checked them?
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: brake problem

Not all mc have built in residual valves . But i understand your arrangement and the remote fill should work . I would remove the wheel cyl in question and disassemble to inspect the bore , cups and machining .
I just went through a similar, no pedal , on a 30 with juice brakes . All i did was replace some flex lines , bleed and results were a mushy pedal . After much frustration and pulling of my hair . I installed residual valves and problem solved . Mind you this same setup worked for 10-12 yrs until i changed the lines .
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Old 05-28-2020, 04:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: brake problem

Cylinders The problem with the repoped ones was the inlet hole was larger than stock and the cup straddled the hole so when new linings were used the cup was bushed back over them ,My current brake job one wheel had that problem .solution grind a bit of the end of the shoe 3/32 ,
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Old 05-28-2020, 04:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: brake problem

"Only way I can bleed all air out, is to unbolt from back plates, whilst still attached to hoses, G clamp across ends of cylinders to prevent pistons popping out, and 'manipulating' them into such a position as to get all air out."

Brian, that is not a usable part or bleeding process. I know you were just attempting to get it bleed, but over time you don't want to be disassembling the whole brake system every time in needs to be bleed. You need good quality wheel cylinders, but no idea where they would come from in England!
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Old 05-28-2020, 04:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: brake problem

Displacement Mismatched m/c or pipes to large ,1/4 is ok .
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Old 05-28-2020, 04:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: brake problem

Take apart wheel cylinders and inspect to see if holes drilled properly--- the bleeder hole at top, the fluid hole in center---- some have bleeder hole drilled 1/2 way down, some fluid holes drilled to be under cup, I always take apart new wheel cylinders-- and rebuilt ones for inspection, the new ones many times have the holes drilled wrong, the resleeved ones have honing grindings not cleaned out
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: brake problem

what did you find brian? i know you are not sitting still !
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: brake problem

Brian is in New Zealand thats about 1.1/2 hrs from Australia about 14hrs from the USA and about the same from England ,Don't forget We have always supported the USA ideals , fought in support in the war ect ,
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
"Only way I can bleed all air out, is to unbolt from back plates, whilst still attached to hoses, G clamp across ends of cylinders to prevent pistons popping out, and 'manipulating' them into such a position as to get all air out."

Brian, that is not a usable part or bleeding process. I know you were just attempting to get it bleed, but over time you don't want to be disassembling the whole brake system every time in needs to be bleed. You need good quality wheel cylinders, but no idea where they would come from in England!
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: brake problem

Yep, need to stay awake here!!

Last edited by JSeery; 05-30-2020 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: brake problem

Thanks , No offence meant Jerry ,
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Old 05-30-2020, 09:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: brake problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatheadTed View Post
Brian is in New Zealand thats about 1.1/2 hrs from Australia about 14hrs from the USA and about the same from England ,Don't forget We have always supported the USA ideals , fought in support in the war ect ,

Not that many Americans realize that what good allies Australia and New Zealand are.They have always been there for the US. Thanks from a vet.
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Old 05-30-2020, 09:27 PM   #20
JSeery
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Default Re: brake problem

This was not intended as an internal incident, just a stupid mistake! For some strange reason I was thinking Brian lived in England (I know, it says New Zealand right under his name!). And on top of that I knew Brian lives in New Zealand, just one of those things, doing too many things at once.

And I still think he needs new (as in correctly built) wheel cylinders! LOL

Last edited by JSeery; 05-30-2020 at 09:32 PM.
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