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Old 01-17-2020, 01:03 PM   #1
russcc
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Default Repairing frame rust

Here is a photo of a spot in the side of the '40 frame rail I plan to cut out and weld in a oval shaped patch. The frame at that point appears to be about .125. thick. My question is what type steel would you recommend for the patch ? Would 1029 regular carbon steel be suitable ? Thank you Fordbarners..
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

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Old 01-17-2020, 01:04 PM   #3
petehoovie
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I plan to cut out and weld in a oval shaped patch. The frame at that point appears to be about .125. thick. My question is what type steel would you recommend for the patch ? Would 1029 regular carbon steel be suitable ?
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

A patch won't cure the problem, as the advanced rust has almost surely compromised past the location of the holes. The length of the frame before and after the damage should be reinforced by adding a steel plate that is formed to cover the area. Usually any area of severe rust indicate that there are more unseen hidden places.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

There was an earlier thread about replacement frame sections from Chassis Engineering. I would go that route. There is also another thread saying "Precision Coach Works" is also still in business, distributing through "Joe's Auto Parts:. Try them also.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

That's pretty mild, in my view. I used some material from a later frame that was in pieces. I have also used 3mm steel cut from a piece of rectangular tubing. Make sure you vee it well and if you can weld from both sides. Good penetration is necessary.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Looks to me like there is already a serious and larger rust problem requiring more than "patch fixing". Post more photos of what the entire frame rail area looks like. Be sure to investigate the A pillar and X member areas. I seem to recall that there are areas of the frame rail where the metal is "lapped" together.

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Old 01-17-2020, 01:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I think a patch welded on the inside would be better and easier than filling a hole.you can use heavier gauge metal if you like.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I believe the originals are 11 gauge, unless it's a convertible or pick-up frame, which should be 10 gauge. DD
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I am not seeing the top flange of the frame, is it gone too as well as the floor? Is that frame so rare you can't find a better one? My avatar roadster original frame both the top and bottom flanges were rusted off. I found a much better one and fixed it as the frame horns were missing but was rust free. As others have said there are other places that probably are bad like where the X comes into the main side rails. Good luck.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Looks like that the body is still mounted to the frame above in the pictures? If that is so, the frame rust doesn't look so bad. I have used 1/8" mild steel plate to patch similar rust areas.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I would get another frame.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Thank you all for your suggestions. Those rust spots are on both L&R rails in the same spot. The rest of the frame is ok including the doubled up ex frame kickup at the rear.
I went through the whole frame before I bought the car. It will be a daily driver, so a well done patch is all its needs. Thank you especially V8Coopman for a specific answer as to the original gauge of the steel. 11 Ga is .120 which jives with the what I measure. Now how about the specifics of the steel, is 1029 carbon steel a good choice ? As a side note, I have purchased and installed a front seat support mfg by Welfab Inc, N Billerica MA. They purchased Dave M's drawings and jigs and actively produce his former products. Welfabs products are excellent USA quality and fit the way Henry's did. They are distributed locally by Joes.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I would just weld patches in beyond the problem area.
Unless you are a perfectionist and want a perfect frame, then get a new frame!
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

As for type of steel I would use 1020 cold rolled steel not hot rolled because cold rolled has the slag removed and is easier to weld.

If you 1029 steel is cold rolled you could also use it.
https://www.steelforge.com/aisi-1029/
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Thank you 19Fordy. the 1020 series, CR, was what I had in mind. McMaster Carr has good selection of steels.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

russcc: Postage rates for shipping steel are expensive due to weight. Isn't there a steel company near you where you could buy a strip of steel the correct width and then cut it to length? Even consider a welding shop that has steel on the rack.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:37 AM   #18
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Much like 19Fordy said above, I wouldn't be averse to using most any 1/8" cold rolled carbon steel that will weld. Even though Henry has been noted for using quality steels in his early cars, the mere physics involved in a replacement patch like you are talking about doesn't necessitate the structural, molecular scrutiny like an aircraft wing spar would. Find ya a chunk of 1/8th, clean it up, and get after it! Chamfer the edges of both parts and weld on both sides if at all possible. Grind to finish. It'll be every bit as strong as the original, surrounding metal. DD
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
russcc: Postage rates for shipping steel are expensive due to weight. Isn't there a steel company near you where you could buy a strip of steel the correct width and then cut it to length? Even consider a welding shop that has steel on the rack.
Find a local sheetmetal shop, they will have small pieces laying around and can shear it to size so you don't have to cut it.If you are fixing a straight section, have flanges bent on patch to match your frame. The real strength is in the flanges
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Repairing frame rust

I agree with the above as well. I live 20 miles north of Brainerd, MN (not one of the larger metropolitan areas in the country), and have found that there is a local company, "American Steel Supply", that has been very accommodating to me. I don't buy much, but they let me rummage through their "drops", cut and bend to order at no or little charge, and even have a service that will cut custom shapes when needed.

Early on, I showed them a picture of my project (a "T" touring hot rod), which I think helped a lot.
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