Oil Filters

[dansluck]

What type of oil filter works best with the Model A's low oil pressure? I have been using a Motorcraft FL-1A but I believe these were designed for pressures around 40 lbs.
Dan

[arnhemmer]

Originally Posted by dansluck

What type of oil filter works best with the Model A's low oil pressure? I have been using a Motorcraft FL-1A but I believe these were designed for pressures around 40 lbs.
Dan

I use the Wix 51515 without any problems.

[Floats]

Hi guys, how is this filter fitted to a Model A?

[arnhemmer]

Originally Posted by Floats

Hi guys, how is this filter fitted to a Model A?

Snyders sells a full flow oil filter kit part# A-6705-F, which replaces the original valve cover. Im sure others carry it also.

[bruceincam]

Originally Posted by arnhemmer

I use the Wix 51515 without any problems.

As do I ----------

[katy]

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Fram PH8A

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Floats

Hi guys, how is this filter fitted to a Model A?

Originally Posted by arnhemmer

Snyders sells a full flow oil filter kit part# A-6705-F, which replaces the original valve cover. Im sure others carry it also.

The full flow filter kit sold by other vendors is actually made by Mike's A-Forable and they sell it for ~$15 cheaper.

[nkaminar]

Filters for modern cars have a check valve that prevents drain back. It takes a certain amount of pressure to open the check valve which means that these filters do not work well on Model A's unless you have 45 psi oil pressure. The filters for hydraulic systems do not have the check valves so they are best for Model A's. You can check by trying to blow through the filter. If you can then no check valve. Best to use a rubber hose so that your mouth does not get contaminated by the preservative they put in the filters when they are shipped.

[dansluck]

nkaminar
What type of hydraulic filter would fit?

Thanks Dan

[Werner]

Hallo und guten Abend,


after several attempts and measurements I use this filter: 'MANN W-77'

* It is not a fine filter with strong counter pressure.

* It has a non-return valve that prevents the filter empty if the engine is not running.

* It has a by-pass valve if the filter is clogged or cold oil is too thick.

* It is small.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Filters for modern cars have a check valve that prevents drain back. It takes a certain amount of pressure to open the check valve which means that these filters do not work well on Model A's unless you have 45 psi oil pressure. The filters for hydraulic systems do not have the check valves so they are best for Model A's. You can check by trying to blow through the filter. If you can then no check valve. Best to use a rubber hose so that your mouth does not get contaminated by the preservative they put in the filters when they are shipped.

Are you miss taking the anti-back flow valve (check valve) for the bypass valve? The bypass valve is there to prevent overpressure. The anti-back flow valve is there to prevent back flow.

I can open the back-flow valve easily on my WIX 51515 with my finger. basically no resistance, certainly not 45psi.

And yes, a WIX 51515 by-pass valve is set at 45psi.

My oil pressure is running ~6psig. I am sure the gauge would be reading a lot higher if it was trying to overcome 45psi.

[Bruce of MN]

What is wrapped around your filter?

Originally Posted by Werner

Hallo und guten Abend,


after several attempts and measurements I use this filter: 'MANN W-77'

* It is not a fine filter with strong counter pressure.

* It has a non-return valve that prevents the filter empty if the engine is not running.

* It has a by-pass valve if the filter is clogged or cold oil is too thick.

* It is small.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

You can check by trying to blow through the filter. If you can then no check valve. Best to use a rubber hose so that your mouth does not get contaminated by the preservative they put in the filters when they are shipped.

It sounds to me you are trying to blow thru the filter backward, thus closing the anti-flow valve.

[nkaminar]

I have never experienced a anti drain back valve that I could open by blowing in the intake end of the filter. But there may be such an animal, as it seems by other's comments. I am not sure what pressure it takes to open the anti drain back valve but not 45 psi. That was just a number I grabbed out of the air for emphasis.

Regarding what hydraulic filter fits, that would depend on what hardware you are attaching the filter too. Search for hydraulic filter then match the diameters of the outer O ring and inner O ring and the thread. I ended up re threading the housing for my Model T which does not have an oil pump but relies on the flywheel slinging the oil. A fitting on the side of the flywheel housing will produce just enough pressure to flow oil through a hydraulic filter and to a fitting at the nose of the engine.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I have never experienced a anti drain back valve that I could open by blowing in the intake end of the filter.

How to you even blow into the inlet of the filter with the 5-6 holes? Are you referring to the threaded hole, which is the outlet? Please see diagram above.

[Herb Concord Ca]

I use the Wix 51515 also.

[Ruth]

I use the WIX filter also. I peel the sticker off so it is all black.

[Werner]

The anti drain valve is the rubber diaphragm that covers the radial inlet holes. You can blow it up with a drinking straw.

Bruce,
I thermally insulated the filter housing with fiberglass insulation because the engine oil rarely gets above 60 °C, even in the summer. So low is not good.


The little blue label is a temperature gauge.

[Bill Z]

Originally Posted by dansluck

What type of oil filter works best with the Model A's low oil pressure? I have been using a Motorcraft FL-1A but I believe these were designed for pressures around 40 lbs.
Dan

I’ve been using a Motorcraft FL-1A filter since I installed a Mike’s Affordable full flow oil filter setup on my A. The stock Model A engine has low oil pressure only because it has no restrictions as it enters the valve chamber where it feeds the main and cam bearings by gravity along with the timing gears and eventually the rod bearing troughs.

Adding an oil filter provides a restriction that measurably raises the pressure between the pump and filter. My REX-A-CO oil pressure gauge is pegged at 10 lbs at a cold start. The actual pressure is higher, but drops to 2-3 lbs at a hot idle. The stock oil pump is easily capable of pushing oil through the filter and exceeding the pressure required to open the bypass if need be.

Adding this filter setup doesn’t really much
alter the system as designed, as the oil re-enters the valve chamber very near the stock location. However, I do use the 90 degree adapter and completely fill the filter with oil when I change it, to avoid the possibility of dry starting the engine. It also makes for neater filter changes.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Bill Z

However, I do use the 90 degree adapter and completely fill the filter with oil when I change it, to avoid the possibility of dry starting the engine. It also makes for neater filter changes.

Can you post the supplier and part number? I agree that a right angle would likely create less mess, and I'm interested.

Thanks.

[alexiskai]

Ford part M-6880-B50. You can buy it lots of places for $130-$150. Kinda expensive for the minor convenience, in my opinion.

[Bill Z]

Originally Posted by shew01

Can you post the supplier and part number? I agree that a right angle would likely create less mess, and I'm interested.

Thanks.

I bought mine at Speedwaymotors.com
Part# M-6880-A50 90 degree oil filter adapter. Their website currently lists it at $89.99. I believe that’s what I paid a few years ago.

[Y-Blockhead]

The 90° adaptor available these days looks kind of funky to me on a Model A as they are made of billet aluminum anodized blue. Altho they can be painted green, the billet doesn't do it for me. Try to find one of the original cast aluminum ones at a Pick-a-part or similar.

[Bill Z]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

The 90° adaptor available these days looks kind of funky yo me on a Model A as the are made of blue anodized billit aluminum. There to find one of the original cast aluminum ones at a Pick-a-part or similar.

I have the same one as yours Y-Blockhead. Raw aluminum painted to match the engine. It looks like that’s the one they’re currently selling.

[alexiskai]

The A50 is the one Y-Blockhead has, it has been discontinued and replaced by the B50. You can still find the A50 on some sites, but supplies will eventually run out.

[Bill Z]

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Bummer! 😟

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Bill Z

I bought mine at Speedwaymotors.com
Part# M-6880-A50 90 degree oil filter adapter. Their website currently lists it at $89.99. I believe that’s what I paid a few years ago.

Thank you.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

The 90° adaptor available these days looks kind of funky to me on a Model A as they are made of billet aluminum anodized blue. Altho they can be painted green, the billet doesn't do it for me. Try to find one of the original cast aluminum ones at a Pick-a-part or similar.

I do like the look of that.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Ford part M-6880-B50. You can buy it lots of places for $130-$150. Kinda expensive for the minor convenience, in my opinion.

That's true. But spilled oil can be a real mess on clothes, skin, the car, and the floor. I keep cardboard on my garage floor and wear vinyl gloves when changing oil, but oil has a sneaky way of getting in places I never dreamed. Heaven forbid that I track that into the house.

[duke36]

Is there any data to show the FL1A filter won't work with the right angle adapters ?
Bratton's and perhaps others list the PH8A which cross references to the Motorcraft FL1A and the WiX 51515.

[old31]

I have been using a WIX 51085 with my right angle adapter for years.

I just switched to a ACDelco GM Original Equipment UPF48R because its a little bit thinner and fits better were the oil tube is.

I also like it because its black and I can remove the tag.

[dansluck]

Thanks for the information, guys.
Dansluck

[CarlG]

I used the 90 degree adapter with the WIX 51515 or the FL1A with no problems

[old31]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

The 90° adaptor available these days looks kind of funky to me on a Model A as they are made of billet aluminum anodized blue. Altho they can be painted green, the billet doesn't do it for me. Try to find one of the original cast aluminum ones at a Pick-a-part or similar.

Yblock that is a real nice looking engine bay.

Are you running a damper with that vbelt?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by old31

Yblock that is a real nice looking engine bay.

Are you running a damper with that vbelt?

Thank you. Yes, I have a Murray damper. I am running the segmented because the Murray Damper is thicker than stock and I can't get the regular v-belt between the damper and the crossmember. Plus "they say" the segmented belt cuts down on vibrations.

I run segmented belts on all my power tools (table saw, disc/belt sander, etc.)

[Dodge]

I run the 90 degree one also. I picked mine up at the local pick-n-pull wrecking yard.
They come on Ford V-6 motors. I think I paid like $10-$15 for it.
I also painted it engine color as well as the filter.

[Lee29coupe]

Please brain storm on this. Doesn’t the top of the oil pump assembly have a built in pressure relief by way of the spring that holds the oil pump/distributor assembly together by spring pressure. I recall that if oil pressure exceeds the spring pressure it will compress the spring a small amount and let oil flow into the valve chamber. This would be a safety mechanism if the oil passage going to the front oil chamber is blocked. Remember in 1929 oil was not what it is now and Ford engineers anticipated this and made this bypass, remember at that time the reputation of the durability car was a big selling point and at this point in history people had a hard time feeding their children let alone buying oil in the Great Depression. I put a Mikes filter on my 29 coupe but I am taking it off, I believe that during initial startup of the engine the filter set starves the valve chamber of oil for enough time to cause esscess wear over time. The oil system was designed as a low pressure splash and drain system, I think Fords engineers were a lot smarter than most of us including me. Really oil is cheap, we don’t drive them that much(use synthetic), with most of us if we can afford and love our machine we can change oil every 500 miles. I do not recommend an oil filter, right Des?

[Werner]

I see no reason not to use an oil filter. The modern multigrade oils are low viscosity when cold and as soon as the engine is running, oil is pumped into the cylinder head chamber.

The only thing to remember about filter assembly is that it must be filled with oil beforehand.

[Gene F]

OK, let me ask this. If an oil filter setup is a good idea, then why have I never heard an engine shop that specializes in A engines ever suggest one? I had a 1956 Chevy when I was a kid, and that oil filter option was not elected when the original owner bought the car in 1956. Lots of lawn movers are splash-n-splatter oil systems, and don't have a filter.

Not trying to be difficult, just asking a question, so be nice.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Gene F

OK, let me ask this. If an oil filter setup is a good idea, then why have I never heard an engine shop that specializes in A engines ever suggest one?

My understanding is that the oil filter is mostly useful to extend oil change intervals. If you want to change your oil less frequently than every 500 miles, you can install a filter and the oil will last a lot longer. That's really it. So rebuilders don't weigh in on it because it's a tradeoff of maintenance intervals, not a requirement to operate the engine.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by Gene F

OK, let me ask this. If an oil filter setup is a good idea, then why have I never heard an engine shop that specializes in A engines ever suggest one? I had a 1956 Chevy when I was a kid, and that oil filter option was not elected when the original owner bought the car in 1956. Lots of lawn movers are splash-n-splatter oil systems, and don't have a filter.

Not trying to be difficult, just asking a question, so be nice.

You are correct, lawnmowers and such have no filter, but, more expensive generators do. In fact, lawnmowers have air filters too, go figure.

I would venture to say that the Model A, as originally designed/built could reduce the internal wear by filtering the oil and removing the dirt or other solid contaminates. Any oil lubricated machine will respond in the same manner.

The article(s) I am referring to were written in the 60's, mainly in discussion with "modern" pressure fed bearing designs. At the time the manufacturers were starting to offer 100,000 mile warranties. They still had to improve the technology and tolerances but were well on the way.

The original Model A was a compromise of design/technology and economics for that period of time. Within four years, the block, crank and rods changed to larger more robust design. It would be interesting to read about when the "B" design started, a guess is in 1930.

To me, it is a choice, my choice is to add the filter. But I also pressure feed the insert bearings, again, my choice.

Oh, and back to your original statement about Engine shops that specialize in Model A's never recommending one. That is how they stay in business, volume. Personally, I have found that if I see a rebuilders tag, or rivet holes where one was removed, I pass on working on it.

Best of luck, John

[Werner]

It is self-explanatory that abrasive dirt (road dust, cylinder abrasion, hard combustion residues, ash, ...) leads to increased wear on all bearing and sliding surfaces. It will extend the life of the engine.
Very early in the history of engine development, there were already ideas on how to clean the oil. Mesh filter, gap rotary filter, centrifugal filter, centrifuge, ...
But the maintenance was often cumbersome and the filtration rating was only modest. Only the so-called "Micronic-Paper" filters brought the breakthrough to enable high filter performance with easy replacement.
Here in Germany, these paper-based ones were offered from around the 1950s, but sometimes only for an extra charge ex works.

With a good oil filter you make every engine happy!

[katy]

Originally Posted by Gene F

If an oil filter setup is a good idea, then why have I never heard an engine shop that specializes in A engines ever suggest one?.

They're looking for repeat business?

[Sunny the Model A]

I am running a Motorcraft FL1A filter. I punch out the flap and it flows fine. I am a partial flow man myself. I just prefer it due to the bulletproof design. no fear of oil starvation.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Sunny the Model A

I am running a Motorcraft FL1A filter. I punch out the flap and it flows fine. I am a partial flow man myself. I just prefer it due to the bulletproof design. no fear of oil starvation.

When you punch out the flap you defeat the purpose of the anti-flow back valve. But then again it probably doesn't make much difference on a bypass system.

[Gene F]

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Katy, johnneilson, I am wondering why every time I go to a antique rebuilder / machinist the place is paced with work lined up. Doesn't seem to me like they are anywhere near running out of work.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Katy, johnneilson, I am wondering why every time I go to a antique rebuilder / machinist the place is paced with work lined up. Doesn't seem to me like they are anywhere near running out of work.

The place is Probably lined up with engines that didn’t use oil filters!

David Serrano

[jeepguy1948]

I haven't read every single post on this thread yet but before I dive in too deep (or order a header) I need to know if the filter set up with the 90 degree fitting work with 4 into 1 headers, the cast iron header, the Yap cast 4 into 2 set up?

[saxman657]

Originally Posted by '28 RPU

I haven't read every single post on this thread yet but before I dive in too deep (or order a header) I need to know if the filter set up with the 90 degree fitting work with 4 into 1 headers, the cast iron header, the Yap cast 4 into 2 set up?

Is this the 90 degree listed in the Snyder's catalog (A-6705) that replaces the Timing Side Cover? I'm working on a B block that has a full-flow Stipe Oil Pump on it and wondering if that's the way to go. I have an oil filter adapter right now that is set up to attach to the oil pan, but I think that's a bad idea -- I could never use engine pans among other things.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by saxman657

Is this the 90 degree listed in the Snyder's catalog (A-6705) that replaces the Timing Side Cover? I'm working on a B block that has a full-flow Stipe Oil Pump on it and wondering if that's the way to go. I have an oil filter adapter right now that is set up to attach to the oil pan, but I think that's a bad idea -- I could never use engine pans among other things.

Depending on the "B" engine you are working on, you may need modify this unit.
If you are staying with standard oiling, this will work.
If you are moving to a full pressure system, the output can be plugged and another discharge port/fitting line can be added.

It can be messy when changing the filter, I just poke a hole in the side, drain and then remove.

John

[katy]

Originally Posted by '28 RPU

I haven't read every single post on this thread yet but before I dive in too deep (or order a header) I need to know if the filter set up with the 90 degree fitting work with 4 into 1 headers, the cast iron header, the Yap cast 4 into 2 set up?

Are you talking about Snyder's OIL FILTER ADAPTER Part # A-6706?
Snyder's info says: Sometimes there is a clearance issue when running our A-6705-F with headers. This bracket turns the filter 90 degrees when the original filter position has clearance issues.

Must use Motorcraft FL820S, M-6731-FL820, or FL500S filter with this adapter. Normal filter that comes with the A-6705-F will not fit threads.

[johnneilson]

I had a discussion with a Friend today who had a problem with a filter.
It seems that the filter he chose had a check valve in it and it did not open until 15 PSI.
He changed to a normal filter and the problems went away.

Something new every day, John