Drive shaft lock pin

[Will D]

What's the best tool (or what will work without buggering it) to install a drive shaft locking pin?

[19Fordy]

First, buy a couple of pins in case you "booger" one up.

I don't know that exact answer but, I do recall that the replacement I bought was smaller in dia. than the hole. That surprised me as I thought it would be an interference fit. Therefore, I assume that the OEM pin was placed in the hole and swedged into place like a hot steel rivet.

I know it seems crazy but used I decided to use a 1/4-28 grade 8 bol. t I covered the shank with a thin coat of solder and pounded it into position. The excess solder was sheared off as it when into position. Then I used Locktite on the nut and punched the threads. That was 3 years ago,
So far , so good.

If I had to do it over I would heat the replacement rivet hot enough so that I could place it in the hole and swedge it to "fill" the hole and then form the head with a ball peen hammer or a rivet set.

If I had a lathe I would consider turning down a piece if steel just a little oversize and then hammer it into position and form the head.

I am sure others have some excellent answers instead of what I did.

[Will D]

The original Ford pin is 0.252 inch and the replacement is 0.245 inch. Ya I figured it would be interfere fit as well.

I do have 6 ....

[Lawrie]

I use a home made pin, tight fit, heat up the end then using an air hammer and a contoured punch ,hold a large hammer on the other end and just use the air hammer to swage the heated end over.
Lawrie

[Tinker]

You peen it to set usually. There should be no movement around the turning shaft splines. But yet most are sitting in the housing when you open it up after 80 yrs. Mine was not. Install one. drive it and 10 yrs from now when you have to pull it apart, then... Lot of pins sheared i guess, collar still there.


All the force is put on the connecting splines, not on the collar placement. Just pinned in place. A bolt will work if you feel confident it'll stay bolted.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Tinker

You peen it to set usually.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc3ZrmhDN4

Sooo…..what does that video have to do with a drive shaft lock pin? Curious! DD

[flatheadmurre]

If the splines are worn it´s real tough to get anything to last...the pins get sheared right off and falls out...that´s why the "safety" pins with a springclamp to keep parts from ending up between gears was invented.
If the spline is nice and tight it will work fine with a bolt or rivet...
And the original rivets was solid ?? that looks like a hollow rivet that should be installed like a brakeshoe rivet....

[Mart]

I use a soft steel pin and then put a hose clamp over it in case it breaks. I actually put 3 hose clamps on 120 degrees out to maintain balance. My version of the safety clip Murre describes above.

I once used an Allen bolt (good grade steel) and self locking nut. That snapped and made an unholy racket. So now use the method I described above.

I make it sound like I do this all the time, that isn't so. The hose clamps are on my roadster. The coupe and pickup haven't been disturbed.

I think what is more important is that the splines on the shafts and coupler are a good tight fit without any slop. It's the play that fatigues the pins.

In a modified (shortened) setup the alignment is critical. Any misalignment will cause wear in the splines and subsequent pin failure.

That's a long answer to a short question.

Mart.

[Terry,OH]

The pin you show with the hole is not the proper pin. They are solid steel from one end to the other.

[Will D]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

The pin you show with the hole is not the proper pin. They are solid steel from one end to the other.

The pin is solid except for the last 1/4 inch. When inserted into the coupler the solid portion extends just past the coupler. This is why I was thinking there may be a special rivet punch that would work best to mushroom the hollow tip.

Was thinking using a bolt would throw it off balance.

The coupler/splines are a nice snug fit.

[19Fordy]

Bolt won't throw it off balance if you use a nut on opposite end.

[Newc]

Loctite co. makes a product for loose splines. It is used industrially and on driveshaft splines [large trucks] Amazon has it but can not ship it so I had to get it from Fastenal. There is a cleaner and a primer necessary. I used it on a '37 assembly-not on the road yet. for a pin we turned down a bolt to .255 and supported the opposite side of 'pin' with an anvil so as not to damage the pinion bearings by pounding. I got the Loctite info here from an old post. Newc

[RalphM]

I just use roll pins, also known as spring pins. May not be best choice, but I have had no issues.

[Talkwrench]

Yes its just the last bit thats hollow in the pin. All I did was have a solid piece of steel on the other side and peened it over with a ball peen hammer. But you have to be careful not to hit it too many times , you'll flatten it too thin and it'll be those little bits that will break of for sure. I had my shaft out [?] .. just recently and after years the pins were still ok , I did notice I had a very tiny amount of movement in the spline.

[19Fordy]

I would think that it would be a good idea to fill in the hollow end of the pin with "weld" so as to make it solid before swedging. Steel rivets are usually solid.

[RalphM]

Here’s the “safety pin”if anyone’s wondering.

I took a picture of it out of the box, but the picture will not load.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by RalphM

Here’s the “safety pin”if anyone’s wondering.

I took a picture of it out of the box, but the picture will not load.

Here it is! DD

[Mart]

Are the instructions saying to put the spring in the middle of the UJ? Or maybe between the speedo gear and UJ? I'm trying to work out how that would help.

Mart.

[swanwaco32]

It needs to be a soft pin and is only there to keep the drive shaft from moving for and aft. A hard bolt will break if the splines are worn and then it will be a problem. I have a small anvil and with the rear end on the floor use it to peen the rivet. Also grease the splines to prevent wear before assembly.

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by Mart

Are the instructions saying to put the spring in the middle of the UJ? Or maybe between the speedo gear and UJ? I'm trying to work out how that would help.

Mart.

Spring is between u-joint and speedogear pushing driveshaft down towards rearend.

[19Fordy]

I seriously doubt if that little spring has enough "spring rate" to counteract
any driveshaft movement.

[deuce_roadster]

[IMG][/IMG]

I get industrial heat shrink made for electrical connections, it is about 1/8" thick, strong and impervious to gas, oil and solvents and just fits over the shaft and rivets. Heat with heat gun until glue is bubbling out each end and you are done. The ends cannot come out even if the pin breaks it stays in place and can still prevent the shaft from moving. This is a NOS driveshaft which I put Glyptol on and came as an assembly with new collar installed with the rear pin just started.
Electrical Supply places have this 3M ITCSN-1500-12 BLACK. 12 is 12" and is enough to do 3 rear ends.
This stuff is tough as you will see when you cut it. I posted another picture in my MISC folder

[cas3]

thats pretty slick mr deuce

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

[IMG][/IMG]

I get industrial heat shrink made for electrical connections, it is about 1/8" thick, strong and impervious to gas, oil and solvents and just fits over the shaft and rivets. Heat with heat gun until glue is bubbling out each end and you are done. The ends cannot come out even if the pin breaks it stays in place and can still prevent the shaft from moving. This is a NOS driveshaft which I put Glyptol on and came as an assembly with new collar installed with the rear pin just started.
Electrical Supply places have this 3M ITCSN-1500-12 BLACK. 12 is 12" and is enough to do 3 rear ends.
This stuff is tough as you will see when you cut it. I posted another picture in my MISC folder

This is a BRILLIANT idea. Really clever!

[deuce_roadster]

Thanks, I didn't think regular heat shrink would work even if they made it big enough.
If you ever needed to remove it, probably would come off pretty easily with a sanding disk or grinder.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Spring is between u-joint and speedogear pushing driveshaft down towards rearend.

………...keeping a constant pre-load on the shaft toward the rear, in an attempt to prevent back and forth forces which task the fragile pin. BUT...I doubt that hokey coil spring has the guts to control the fore/aft forces realized by that d-shaft in REAL use. DD

[Will D]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

[IMG][/IMG]

I get industrial heat shrink made for electrical connections, it is about 1/8" thick, strong and impervious to gas, oil and solvents and just fits over the shaft and rivets. Heat with heat gun until glue is bubbling out each end and you are done. The ends cannot come out even if the pin breaks it stays in place and can still prevent the shaft from moving. This is a NOS driveshaft which I put Glyptol on and came as an assembly with new collar installed with the rear pin just started.
Electrical Supply places have this 3M ITCSN-1500-12 BLACK. 12 is 12" and is enough to do 3 rear ends.
This stuff is tough as you will see when you cut it. I posted another picture in my MISC folder

That's a Great idea! Just ordered some from local electrical supply, will be here tomorrow. Not cheap tho, $17 cdn per foot.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Thanks, I didn't think regular heat shrink would work even if they made it big enough.
If you ever needed to remove it, probably would come off pretty easily with a sanding disk or grinder.

Hey Mike (deuce_roadster)…..What a slick idea! I've run across and used that stuff on a handful of occasions during my tenure trying to keep the Houston ARTCC (Air Route Traffic Control Center) on the air and percolating, power distribution-wise. We've used it in sizes up to 4" diameter. Your vision to use this stuff for the purpose shown herein is pure genius. I personally can't think of a more-logical way to address this "lock pin" issue. Dick D (DD)

[deuce_roadster]

Wow Dick, 4" you worked with some pretty bad-ass wires!
After wondering what that "machining sound" was coming from my torque tube back in 2000 when I got my roadster on the road, and seeing the broken pin sticking out of the drive line coupler making a groove on the inside of the torque tube, I have always looked for a way to corral those pins. Thanks for your kind words. Mike

[deuce_roadster]

Will D, that's only a little over 5 bucks per rear end if you use all 3 you can get out of 1 foot.. If you only have 1 car you can sell or give the left over 2 pieces to someone working on a rear end.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Wow Dick, 4" you worked with some pretty bad-ass wires!
Thanks for your kind words. Mike

A 3.7 Megawatt-capable facility. Lots of sparks necessary to keep roughly 90-100 or so air traffic controllers, their associated equipment, and 140-ish support staff happy during peak traffic times. DD

[RalphM]

Great idea on the heat shrink Duece!
They also make that stuff with a plastic coil inner sleeve, pull the plastic coil out with it in place you want it, and it shrinks it’s self. No heat gun required.

[Brian]

I love the heat shrink idea!

I'd seen those safety pin kits on eBay and used the concept...
I used a 'bandit' tool to apply a bandit band around the end of driveshaft [hollow] to retain the pin should it shear....the spring between the universal and speedo drive gear is a fuel pump spring that sits under the diaphragm. Perfect size.
And yes, the pin[s] need to be simply mild steel, using a high tensile material will lead to premature failure.

[Tinker]

...

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ***

Shrink wrapping a drive train coupler is hilarious for a torque tube. I wouldn't want that floating around 10 yrs from now.

Has nothing to do with a "torque tube". It's used on 1,000 volt direct-burial power cables, or in this case, a "DRIVE SHAFT" coupler. Anyone taking a moment or two to ACTUALLY do some research should clearly see that wall thickness is substantial at 0.170". Durometer is calculated at "SHORE 80A". Certainly NOTHING "hilarious" about this product, nor it's ability to contain these coupling pins. As deuce_roadster said, he'll likely need to use an abrasive disc on a grinder to ever remove the sleeve. This is probably the best "NEW" idea I've seen on FordBarn this year. DD

[Tinker]

...

[flatheadmurre]

That highvoltage shrink sleeve is nothing like the heatshrink tubing you can buy in the normal store...a knife doesn´t cut it without a serious amount of force involved.
It should withstand someone jumping on a shovel without getting zapped.
Only downside is the pricetag...

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

That highvoltage shrink sleeve is nothing like the heatshrink tubing you can buy in the normal store...a knife doesn´t cut it without a serious amount of force involved.
It should withstand someone jumping on a shovel without getting zapped.
Only downside is the pricetag...

The "Champ Items" 'SAFETY' Pin Kits are all over eBay for $10, with a couple even going at $9-ish. That $17 chunk of this stuff DIVIDED by three sounds like a pretty economical deal, especially when looking at the clean and effective results with using the shrink-sleeve. This shrink material can be found at most CONTRACTORs' electrical supply outlets. But what do I know? DD

[Will D]

Was totally over thinking the lock pin. A few blows with a hammer mushroomed the hollow end, 1/8" solid still protruding from the coupler. A few more blows formed a perfect head while seating it tight against the coupler. Slipped on the heat shrink, a little heat and it's good to go. Although the industrial heat shrink may not be a factory/ original repair method, I think it falls between the lines of juice breaks or seat belts on something that never had them. If it prevents potential issues, why the heck not?

Thanks again Deuce for the tip. If anyone would like a piece of this industrial heat shrink and can't find it locally, send me a PM. Just pay the shipping and it's yours.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Will D

Thanks again Deuce for the tip. If anyone would like a piece of this industrial heat shrink and can't find it locally, send me a PM. Just pay the shipping and it's yours.

Is THIS guy (and THIS place) COOL, or what? You're good 'people', Will D!


DD

[Will D]

Thank you for the kind words V8COOPMAN.

A few people have reached out and received a piece of heat shrink. I ended up with 4ft of the stuff as the 1ft was not available due to covid. I still have more left and the offer still stands for any who want a piece.

[deuce_roadster]

Will D, Glad to spread the word on a solution to those pesky ends coming out if the pin breaks. I am pretty sure they will NEVER come through that sleeve. Good for you making the extra pieces available to someone who may have trouble finding it. I gave one to a Regional Group member who was assembling a rear end.
This is what this forum is for.

[Detonator]

So...how many days' pounding does it take to peen over an original pin? I got a couple of OEM pins from Fred Willner (Southside Obsolete) and a couple of aftermarket ones from C&G. I decided to go with the originals -- and I think that was a mistake. After 5 or ten minutes of pounding (it's well backed-up) this is all I've gotten. Are the new pins a lot softer?


If I switch to the C&G pins, how much stick out should I leave when I trim 'em down? Thanks.

[deuce_roadster]

If that end sticking out was heated dull cherry red (with the red and green wrench), it would have been peened over in short order. Something that small would have heated up really fast and not overheated anything else.

[Will D]

Originally Posted by Detonator

So...how many days' pounding does it take to peen over an original pin? I got a couple of OEM pins from Fred Willner (Southside Obsolete) and a couple of aftermarket ones from C&G. I decided to go with the originals -- and I think that was a mistake. After 5 or ten minutes of pounding (it's well backed-up) this is all I've gotten. Are the new pins a lot softer?


If I switch to the C&G pins, how much stick out should I leave when I trim 'em down? Thanks.

Does your C&G pins have a hollow tip? The ones I used did. I did not trim at all, just a few wacks with the hammer(see post #39). If using NOS, do as deuce_roadster suggested.

[Tinker]

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It's just a pin that holds a collar in place. If the splines are tight there is no reason other then decades of spline wear for a pin to break under normal flathead power. Removed a couple with the pin at the bottom, it still worked and ran before I even knew it. I'd guess having more parts flopping around would be fine. Heat shield makes sense. Probably hold up for quite a while at least keep the pin from dropping if it shears.

[Detonator]

The pinion is new — just put in 3.54s — and the coupler’s NOS so there’s no play at all. I think I’ll grind this one off and drive it back out, and use the softer C&G. Then shrink wrap it. I like that.

[glennpm]

I want to warn folks against using the"safety lock pin" device. After just a few hundred miles I found this damage. Needless to say, I didn't put it back in. I used one of the hollow end pins, swagged it over and then used a piece of shrink tubing that I got from Will D (thank you!)

[Mart]

^^ The images above are not indicating a problem with the pin. They are indicating that you have too much play between the splined coupler and the pinion. It is that play that works the pin and eventually fatigues it to failure. If it was not the safety type, it would eventually break and the parts will fall out and make a noise. If that one broke, the clip will retain the parts in place.
Good tight fitting splines, and perfect alignment are crucial. Any slop or as can happen with shortened drivelines, misalignment will lead to spline wear and failed pins.
Mart.

[glennpm]

Agreed Mart

[19Fordy]

This is one of the best threads ever. Thanks for the industrial heat shrink info.

[Detonator]

Just a follow up: I cut the C&G pins to length and the peened over readily.

[bill h]

If both of the pins are broken will the car still drive.. What kind of noise or vibration would you get with broken pins

[blownford]

No buggering up! Ha!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by blownford

No buggering up! Ha!