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Old 07-27-2019, 08:56 AM   #1
PeteVS
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Default F1 steering in a Model A

I'm working with the Bishop-Tardel book and it's time to tackle the steering box modifications. Bishop-Tardel recommends cutting the flanges off both the Model A box and the F1 box and then welding the A flange onto the F1 box. I'm kind of leery about doing that and having the sector shaft getting frozen up. I'm wondering if maybe I should take the F1 box to a machinist to turn the flange off the F1 box leaving the sleeve intact the full length. I could then machine a new flange and weld that to the box. Or, I'm thinking I could just trim the F1 flange to fit into the A frame and figure out a new bolt pattern and drill to frame and flange together. Any experience here or thoughts one way or another?
Thanks!
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

vern tardel sells the flange for the f1 box. verntardel.com
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

If you have a lathe, make a pilot to fit the box and you can cut the stock flange off with a hole saw for a nice fit. Then make a new flange from flat bar to fit.

Tack it in place with the body on to get the angle to fit.
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:18 AM   #4
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

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Originally Posted by PeteVS View Post
I'm working with the Bishop-Tardel book and it's time to tackle the steering box modifications. Bishop-Tardel recommends cutting the flanges off both the Model A box and the F1 box and then welding the A flange onto the F1 box. I'm kind of leery about doing that and having the sector shaft getting frozen up. I'm wondering if maybe I should take the F1 box to a machinist to turn the flange off the F1 box leaving the sleeve intact the full length. I could then machine a new flange and weld that to the box. Or, I'm thinking I could just trim the F1 flange to fit into the A frame and figure out a new bolt pattern and drill to frame and flange together. Any experience here or thoughts one way or another?
Thanks!
Pete

That’s what we did, just trimmed it to fit. There is enough meat to dril a new hole. What welding a new flange does though is allow you reposition the flange so it fits properly (angle wise) in the frame. If not, you’ll need to make a wedge or shim to angle the box correctly.
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:43 AM   #5
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

Talk with Randy Gross about what he does, melmodela@aol.com or call (714) 292-8660 / (323) 728-5712 . I am close enough to his shop that I could pay him a visit. After seeing what he does and the quality of his work I wouldn't even consider doing it myself. Check him out in the archives and see what other people think of him.

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Old 07-27-2019, 12:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

i just installed the Randy Gross F-100 box in my 1930 model A and all i can say is it was bolt in and easy and what a driver it became... i would recommend his work to anyone wanting to install F-100 in a modle A, and it was a one day project......
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

I cut out the frame section and made a kickout to fit the stock F100 box. No mods to the box that way. Could be done for an F1 also. This also gives more room for headers in case you want to put a V8 in some day.
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Old 07-27-2019, 02:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

I think the reasons that Vern and others used the model A flange was so the fit would be better for one and also so the materials would be similar for the weld up. The castings need to be preheated a bit before welding then cooled down slowly. Welding steel to cast material is not as easy as welding cast materials together but neither are a walk in the park. A person could braze them together too but that requires a little different skill set and equipment.

I think Randy Gross just does the F100 boxes but I don't know for certain.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

I just cut the flange off my old F1 hundred box like Vern Tardel shows in three or four pieces. Then smoothed out the housing with the flap wheel very slowly until I got it nice and round with the right thickness flange.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

I welded a model A flange to the f! box. It worked fine, but turning the F1 snout and welding on a new flange gives more support to the sector shaft. I would recommend that.

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Old 07-27-2019, 03:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

If you keep the F1 box intact and replace the flange you keep the grease seal
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:25 PM   #12
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

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I cut out the frame section and made a kickout to fit the stock F100 box. No mods to the box that way. Could be done for an F1 also. This also gives more room for headers in case you want to put a V8 in some day.
I like this idea. Headers are a tight fight and you need all the room you can get.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

Yesterday I got both the F1 and Model A boxes apart and cleaned up. Thanks all for your comment's and I've decided where I'm going. First off, the Tardel flange is three holes so it's not what I'm looking for since the Model A frame is two holes. Second, the F1 box has the center of the column about 1" further inside the frame than the A. I'm not so much worried about exhaust here as I am about having the column coming up directly between the pedals. I made up '32 style pedals so I have to get them installed before I commit anything to steel. Also, the Model A has a wonky 3-1/2º angle between the column and the flange face AND I don't want to cut 1" off the end of the F1 housing and lose length of the sector shaft support. So, I'm going to get the flange turned off the new box, make up a new flange and slide it over the F1 box and weld it when everything is in place.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

My son did this on a 1930 and there was no cutting or welding except welding
a coupling on the shaft to use original steering wheel. The spark and throttle
levers are there but just for looks. Also the engine install no cutting or
welding. The box came from a 1950 F1
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

IMHO rebuilding a stock box especially a Gemmer is just as effective. I bought a converted box on ebay from a seller who didn't know what it was cheap. Very nice. But a restored stock box is also nice even a 28/29 box. Not one to usually argue stock is better or just as good but this is my experience. All my old fords have had some mods to make them more road worthy.
One my 36 I installed a later 38 box as I could source one locally from a Barner.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

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IMHO rebuilding a stock box especially a Gemmer is just as effective. I bought a converted box on ebay from a seller who didn't know what it was cheap. Very nice. But a restored stock box is also nice even a 28/29 box. Not one to usually argue stock is better or just as good but this is my experience. All my old fords have had some mods to make them more road worthy.
One my 36 I installed a later 38 box as I could source one locally from a Barner.
My 87 year old dad like the easier steering with the F100 box. He cut the flange and drilled holes to the figured angle for a stock installation. I was checking the lube in the box last week and noticed the tilt does not necessarily let the oil rest in the upper part. probably ok but you could install a tube on the fill hole to make it fill a little higher.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

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I cut out the frame section and made a kickout to fit the stock F100 box. No mods to the box that way. Could be done for an F1 also. This also gives more room for headers in case you want to put a V8 in some day.


This is the way that some of the 'pro's' do it. I've seen some done by the old, original Pete & Jakes done this way. Slick.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:24 AM   #18
PeteVS
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

Well, I cut the flange off the F1 box, made up a new Model A flange out of 3/8" plate and welded it to the box. First, I bolted the flange into the frame and then got the box all lined up with a borrowed roadster cowl and tack welded it. The F1 box sticks through the frame box a bit but I wound up keeping the seal and the sector shaft is supported along it's full length.

Now, what's the recommended lube for a roller sector box? I got a gasket set and I'm gonna swap gaskets to get a nice preload on the tapered rollers. Sector position will be set for minimum slop at the center of rotation which will be straight ahead. Sound right?
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: F1 steering in a Model A

If the the worm has some wear, setting the lash at center you might find it get tight and bind on a tight turn.

You will end up readjusting it after driving.

Used parts, you might need a steering dampner on the tie rod
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