Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2015, 11:20 AM   #1
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,106
Default flywheel starter ring gear access

Need to replace the ring gear on a '28 paheton . which is the easier way to do it? -lift out the engine or remove transmission?
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #2
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

I would remove both by using the 3rd spark plug hole for the lifting eye/adaptor.

Once on the floor, do the split, remove the flywheel (MARK orientation for re-assembly in the same spot) and do your work on the bench.

Ring gears can be removed with a punch (carefully and don't leave a burr from the punch on the flywheel) but installation can be problematical. Heat to 500F in your wife's oven (she'll give you a BIG KISS just on account of your manliness) and the gear should just drop on by gravity (if you're fast.)

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-21-2015, 01:51 PM   #3
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,423
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Some will remove both as Joe said, some will remove the rear end, some will pull the engine only. It's a toss up, but if it was time for a bearing check I'd only pull the engine only and do both jobs at the same time. If it was just the ring gear, I might pull the rear end and tranny.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 02:02 PM   #4
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

it is part a personal preference of which method. i always try to avoid working over nicely painted surfaces fenders etc when possible... i use my fork lift with long extensions and a trans jack to slide back the rear & trans assy as a complete unit. its easy to do clutches etc that way but a lift and the proper equipment helps...
here is a thread where i documented that method some....
[url]http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109722[/url

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 02-21-2015 at 03:01 PM.
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 02:28 PM   #5
Fred
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: California, Maryland
Posts: 1,421
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

If you are running a Multi Disc Clutch, make sure you check the splines & the clutch pack for ware..Install all new bearings in transmission & pilot Brg.. Oh & throw out Ck..
Fred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 09:27 PM   #6
J Wade
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: San Angelo Texas
Posts: 112
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

I've never taken a Multi Disk Clutch apart. The splines on the flywheel and clutch pack look good could you elaborate on what else to inspect. I don't know if I should take the nut off the trans input shaft off Thanks
J Wade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 09:40 PM   #7
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Wade View Post
I've never taken a Multi Disk Clutch apart. The splines on the flywheel and clutch pack look good could you elaborate on what else to inspect. I don't know if I should take the nut off the trans input shaft off Thanks
Multi-disk clutch is HIGH up there as in DANGEROUS unless one knows what he is doing.

KR Wilson made specialized tools for doing that. Most of us don't have access to these although our local clubs may have tools we can borrow.

Best would be to read the Ford Service Bulletins which describe disassembly of the clutch-pac. In general, you need a tool which can restrain the springs while bolts are removed, and then the tool allows gradual travel to the fully disassembled position. This Ford publication shows pix of the KRW tools in use but one can get the idea by looking at the pix.

IIRC, I think it's covered also in Model A Ford by Victor Page which is a time period book actually written before the Model A production had ended. Contents and illustration run heavy on the earlier Model A design. Again, KRW tools.

I have considered doing this task using a large 19th century Barnes 21" drill press as my restraint. It has about 8" vertical travel and I actually use it to press bearings - it's that stout.

But read up on it. Removing the clutch pac from your forehead is not where you want to go.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 09:46 PM   #8
J Wade
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: San Angelo Texas
Posts: 112
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Thanks. That's why I love this forum my forehead has had enough abuse
J Wade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 10:33 PM   #9
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,423
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

I used some large flat washers and a length of 1/2" threaded rod to take my clutch pack apart. One of the discs has a chisel mark in the tooth, and this disc has teeth a hair wider than the others. This disc goes on the end of the stack which faces the rear of the car. In other words, it the one closest to the tranny, and moves the least when the clutch pedal is pushed.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:11 PM   #10
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Back during the Ahooga Days (the "other" forum when that was all there was) I think the general consensus then was that the multi-disk drum clutch was basically a good clutch - no one had ever heard of a multi-disk wearing out or requiring new plates, either stationary or moving. Basically a "use it for life" design friction wise which was borrowed from the Lincoln or some other high end car of the period.

BUT - I think experience has shown that the multi-disk suffers from two faults: one being the fingers wear the flywheel teeth to the point where the disks get hung up and the clutch release becomes intermittent. The other being that worn friction material collects internally in the grooves and hangs up the innermost disks.

Were I to own one, I would certainly examine it closely for the first issue. The second issue can be gotten past by a good cleaning and re-assembly - which is basically why Ford offered the disassembly instructions in the first place. It was rare in that time frame for a car to NOT require disassembly and such maintenance was expected and part of good operation.

We've become spoiled by the advent of single plate clutches requiring (usually) but one replacement of the clutch friction disk during a normal car lifetime.

I've heard here discussion about how easy it is to change a multi to a single plate clutch. I might expect these to be those who found the drum clutch too worn in the internal teeth and were thus left with no other way? But doubtless someone will come forward as a driver and claim "I changed it because it did't work as well as I was used to - and I know Model A's."

Well, it's an open forum.

But were it me and were it at all possible, I think I would try to keep it original. I would make the same comment for any Model A with other early features such as single brake system or Type H headlights.

They don't make any more of these. And it's a shame when one is lost.

Just one thought. I get them now and then. Wife says I'll be the death of her yet.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 05:00 AM   #11
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Update- took engine out, left transmission in situ. Clutch is multiplate and looks good therefore I do not intend to mess around with it.. some further questions dear friends...
1) is it sensible to spray some brake and clutch cleaner on the plates whilst it's out.
2) the pilot bearing came out attached to the shaft rather than staying in the flywheel- do I need to remove it from the shaft and replace it in flywheel or will it all fit back together OK as it is

Last edited by johnbuckley; 02-25-2015 at 05:38 AM.
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 05:46 AM   #12
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,423
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

I didn't know you had a multiplate. Be sure you don't push on the clutch pedal, or the clutch discs will fall out of alignment and you'll have a bad time getting them lined up and slipped back into the flywheel. I had to install an engine where someone had pushed on the clutch pedal. I used two round shaft screwdrivers to bring the discs back into alignment and centered, while someone else held the clutch pedal down.

Use an old toothbrush or such to clean the flywheel splines.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 11:06 AM   #13
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
I didn't know you had a multiplate....
Neither did I until I pulled the engine out!
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 11:25 AM   #14
d.j. moordigian
Senior Member
 
d.j. moordigian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,546
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbuckley View Post
Need to replace the ring gear on a '28 paheton . which is the easier way to do it? -lift out the engine or remove transmission?
I think it depends on which front cross member you have. If you have
the early style, were the engine bolts too the cross member, I think
it's easier too remove the rear end / transmission.
In either case, one of the first things to remove is the throttle linkage
assembly!
d.j. moordigian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 11:46 AM   #15
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: flywheel starter ring gear access

As to the pilot bearing, I think it matters not if the bearing is on the shaft, or left in the flywheel. Normal would be assembly with the pilot in the flywheel. But I can see that providing A-engages-B it will probably work.

You certainly want to check fit on both parts. Normally the shaft wears and the pilot bearing stays in the flywheel as the fit stays a bit tighter. I might say you're lucky the shaft appears as tight or tighter than the flywheel recess.

But check both with the pilot bearing in your hand.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.