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Old 10-16-2011, 06:48 PM   #1
RPM
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Default NOS Navarro heads

Was able to purchase some original (built by Barney many years ago) Navarro heads yesterday. They are NOS and were from the estate of Milodon co-founder Don. Fit 59AB 24 stud, never run, nice crisp machine work and are domed chambers. Question--How streetable are these? I believe these are the hicompression heads. Any piston recomendations? I have a 3x2 Navarro setup with 97s and would like to run on a pump gas 59AB. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, RPM
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Compression really depends on how big the cylinder under the head is. What is the displacement of your motor?
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

The 59AB is a 1946 with stock bore and stroke.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

I would measure the volume of the combustion chambers. This is a very simple task. BUT! I doubt very much you'll have any problems with a stock engine.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Thanks 38 Coupe and Ron and Kube for the help. These heads are not marked like the Offy's I had, but appear very similar. I will measure the chambers. What volume is considered high compression? RPM
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Check by the water outlet and see if nos. or letters, may tell you.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

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Originally Posted by RPM View Post
Was able to purchase some original (built by Barney many years ago) Navarro heads yesterday. They are NOS and were from the estate of Milodon co-founder Don. Fit 59AB 24 stud, never run, nice crisp machine work and are domed chambers. Question--How streetable are these? I believe these are the hicompression heads. Any piston recomendations? I have a 3x2 Navarro setup with 97s and would like to run on a pump gas 59AB. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, RPM

Are the words (Hi Dome) cast into them? If so, they are designed to run with Arias hi-dome pistons. I understand Ross is now making them as well.

They could certainly be a set of specially made hi-dome heads that Barney did, but if they are his normal high compression heads designed for a "normal" dome piston like a Ross.

I got my heads from Barney in the early '90's as well. He was an awesome guy to talk to. Included a really cool water slide decal as well.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

You do not have compression problum with any after market heads, on a stock engine, you will have something to deal with your 3-2s intake ( over gassing ) jetting, and progressive linkage, and so on,,, I would fuel the center carb, only with 45 or 48 jets. or maybe 50s and block-offs under the other two carbs. tell us about you car, dale driver or short week-end trips ?.. to get the most out of your new heads... You will need to open the exhaust system, good headers 'Reds', and mellowtown mufflers. for a good start..... OLD...BILL
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

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You do not have compression problum with any after market heads, on a stock engine, you will have something to deal with your 3-2s intake ( over gassing ) jetting, and progressive linkage, and so on,,, I would fuel the center carb, only with 45 or 48 jets. or maybe 50s and block-offs under the other two carbs. tell us about you car, dale driver or short week-end trips ?.. to get the most out of your new heads... You will need to open the exhaust system, good headers 'Reds', and mellowtown mufflers. for a good start..... OLD...BILL

Old Bill,

Man, not sure I or others would agree with you on this. Many, many flatheads have been built and run strong with 2X2's, 3X2's and even 4X2's.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Timmie, Timmie,Timmie, Please go back and re-read, RPMs second post, this is a stock by stock engine, 1946... not a BUILT engine, and his consiren about compression, on maybe a worn,tried, engine, maybe we should be talking about "Blowby" OR is he going to build a new engine, he did ask about pistons ?? still a fresh engine and stock by stock, and 3-2s he will wash the cyls with to much gas and wear the engine fast, ..Now You report to to the Prencipals office, ..... tee,tee.tee ......OLD...BILL
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

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Originally Posted by OLD...BILL View Post
Timmie, Timmie,Timmie, Please go back and re-read, RPMs second post, this is a stock by stock engine, 1946... not a BUILT engine, and his consiren about compression, on maybe a worn,tried, engine, maybe we should be talking about "Blowby" OR is he going to build a new engine, he did ask about pistons ?? still a fresh engine and stock by stock, and 3-2s he will wash the cyls with to much gas and wear the engine fast, ..Now You report to to the Prencipals office, ..... tee,tee.tee ......OLD...BILL
My Dear Friend Old Bill:

Well sir, you are correct. I get on my students all day long about not reading all of the directions and here I am doing it myself.

You are 100% correct and I retract my comments.

Thank you.

Tim
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Thanks for the inputs, I understand each of your points and they are all well taken. Perhaps if had had supplied more info, this would be easier. I've done some additional research and found a 6 year old Navarro site on the web. He was showing 2 distinct heads, one called a high dome, the other a nostalgic model. From what I can ascertain, my heads are the nostalgic which, according to the site, are suitable for my application.
My reason for buying these was simple--my God son gave me a Navarro 3x2 earlier this year (a present) to put on one of my 40s and to have heads of the same manufacturer was just too tempting (plus I felt the price was reasonable). My cars have stock 40 flatheads with fresh rebuilds. But.....In the back corner is a 59AB which I recently removed from a terrific running 1946 firetruck that had 4,925 actual miles since new.
My engine man (John Wolf in Iowa) has built hundreds of early Fords and felt the best thing to do with the firetruck engine was not rebuild, rather run as is (resealed and checked out of course).I will clay the valves and pistons with the heads installed without nuts and check all clearances. The 3x2 with 97s will probably be setup to run on middle carb (at least initially, then jetted for progressive) A 42 crab and Fenton headers will round it out. I want to run the original cam for the time being also.
Will probably install in 40 wagon with open drive rear axle (3:50's) or run a Columbia I bought last summer on original suspension. Haven't got that far yet. Would like to run on highway, but will be mostly around town and short trips.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to bolting this together and hope there aren't to many issues. Again, thanks for the inputs and I welcome others. RPM
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Why would running multiple carbs be such a bad thing on a stock engine? With the correct jets the AF ratio is the same whether its a 3x2, 2x2, or single carb., right? More carbs means each venturi will see less CFM but why would the ratio change?

I'm running 2 97's (.044 jets) on a Edmonds intake on a stock 221ci motor in my 41 coupe. Also Fenton headers. In town I get about 13.5 MPG. If it's mostly highway I've seen 16.5-17 MPG. I doubt if I put enough raw gas through it to washing oil off of cylinder walls with those numbers.

Oh, and before you ask; the speedometer was rebuilt this summer, calibrated and has been GPS verified. 3.78 rear end.

Tom

Last edited by itstom; 10-19-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
My Dear Friend Old Bill:

Well sir, you are correct. I get on my students all day long about not reading all of the directions and here I am doing it myself.

You are 100% correct and I retract my comments.

Thank you.

Tim
TIM: You sir are a true GENTIEMAN, and a "barner" when I see your name on a tread, I stop and read it, and I learn, and Iam, sure others do to. thanks ... OLD....BILL
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Speaking of heads, I'm doing pretty much the same thing - using the rebuilt stock '39 24 stud that's in my '36 coupe but I want to dress it up a bit. I have a 3x2 Offy manifold and it had Fenton cast headers on it now. I'm going to buy new heads , even tho I have a good set of "made in Canada " aluminum ones ( just like the finned look!) but not sure which to buy!?....Offy or Edelbrock? Any suggestions by "the Gurus" would be great - I haven't had anything to do with flatheads since my first car in '61!
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM View Post
Thanks for the inputs, I understand each of your points and they are all well taken. Perhaps if had had supplied more info, this would be easier. I've done some additional research and found a 6 year old Navarro site on the web. He was showing 2 distinct heads, one called a high dome, the other a nostalgic model. From what I can ascertain, my heads are the nostalgic which, according to the site, are suitable for my application.
My reason for buying these was simple--my God son gave me a Navarro 3x2 earlier this year (a present) to put on one of my 40s and to have heads of the same manufacturer was just too tempting (plus I felt the price was reasonable). My cars have stock 40 flatheads with fresh rebuilds. But.....In the back corner is a 59AB which I recently removed from a terrific running 1946 firetruck that had 4,925 actual miles since new.
My engine man (John Wolf in Iowa) has built hundreds of early Fords and felt the best thing to do with the firetruck engine was not rebuild, rather run as is (resealed and checked out of course).I will clay the valves and pistons with the heads installed without nuts and check all clearances. The 3x2 with 97s will probably be setup to run on middle carb (at least initially, then jetted for progressive) A 42 crab and Fenton headers will round it out. I want to run the original cam for the time being also.
Will probably install in 40 wagon with open drive rear axle (3:50's) or run a Columbia I bought last summer on original suspension. Haven't got that far yet. Would like to run on highway, but will be mostly around town and short trips.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to bolting this together and hope there aren't to many issues. Again, thanks for the inputs and I welcome others. RPM
Beware of fire trucks because it is not the road mileage that is important, but the pump hours. A good friend bought a '41 4X4 fire truck from the Alpine, Ca fire department with only 9K miles on it and the engine was shot! And the Hobbs meter read LOTS of hours. He then learned that fire trucks rarely go anywhere far but will stand for hours with the pump running and the go 3 or 4 miles back to the fire house. Since then I've noticed old fire truck with just that situation.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

I have a relatively stock AB. It's .030 over with a melling cam, crab distributor, Sharp heads and fenton headers. I run two 48's with direct linkage. It runs perfect... "washing" the cylinders is, in my opinion, an old wives tale. It would need to be "awash" with fuel, so rich and stupid you couldn't drive it! Baloney! Try it...if you suddenly have 6 ,7 or eight quarts of "oil" then i apologize. g
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Fuel dilution can be a real problem, it's not an old wives tale.

This is the main reason for running thermostats. Even with proper A/F ratio you will increase cylinder wear if you allow your engine to operate below 160F. Wide temperature swings only make things worse all the way around.

If you only drive a few hundred miles a year, maybe it doesn't matter.

Personally, if I'm spending all this money on an engine (any engine), I want it to perform well and last as long as it can.

Tune on a chassis dyno or read the plugs and use a stopwatch.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsterguy View Post
Speaking of heads, I'm doing pretty much the same thing - using the rebuilt stock '39 24 stud that's in my '36 coupe but I want to dress it up a bit. I have a 3x2 Offy manifold and it had Fenton cast headers on it now. I'm going to buy new heads , even tho I have a good set of "made in Canada " aluminum ones ( just like the finned look!) but not sure which to buy!?....Offy or Edelbrock? Any suggestions by "the Gurus" would be great - I haven't had anything to do with flatheads since my first car in '61!
The Navarro Heads breath a little better. They arent as choked off as much as the Offy or Edelbrocks. Turn them upside down and lay a straight edge along the transition between the valve pocket and the combustion chamber.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: NOS Navarro heads

Back to the heads. If they are original Navarro heads, the compression ratio is stamped on the water outlet boss, example 8.5, as a Fordbarner stated. I have a set of "Nostalgia" heads I got from Barney in '06, before he passed away in '08. Had chance to tour Navarro Engineering at the time, meet his wife Donna, and see the 700HP turbo charged Rambler engine he built for the Indy car. Very knowledgeable gentleman.
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