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Old 09-07-2021, 05:47 PM   #1
Dirtrack49
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Default Wheel Washers

My somewhat new to me "Restored" 1930 Town Sedan has been a multitude of mechanical problems since I purchased it in August of 2019.

Getting ever closer to the light at the end of the tunnel, I am currently inspecting wheels, bearings and rear end components.
The car came with conical wheel washers. Having read positive and negative threads concerning these add on items, I decided to remove the wheels for inspection. I found that all wheels are in good condition with no deformity to the lug holes. However, on the right rear wheel, the DPO used multiple washers evidently as spacers. Upon closer examination, I find that the studs are longer on the right rear versus the left. The only thing I can think of is that someone replaced the studs using what should have been installed on a cast iron drum? The stud measures 1 inch from the drum on the right, vs. 11/16 on the left.

So, I ask, is this safe to run like this?

Thanks for any and all help.

Tom L.
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File Type: jpg 1930 Town Sedan rt rr wheel.jpg (37.9 KB, 378 views)
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

If what is sticking out is all threads, i think i would cut them off to the right length and do away with all the washers
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

What tinkirk says but I'd still use one washer on each stud.
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:06 PM   #4
Bob Johnson
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

The washers are generally used on wheels where the hole for the lug nut is "wollered" out. With the wheel off the car put a lug nut into a hole. If it extends through the hole any amount you should use the washers.
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:23 PM   #5
Gene F
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

A collector car restored with problems. We have all been there and done that! Don't feel ashamed Dirttrack.
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:14 PM   #6
Dirtrack49
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

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All wheels are in very good condition. No wollering out.
This car was cosmetically restored pretty well. Unfortunately for me at least, whoever did the mechanicals, should never had been allowed to reach for a wrench.

Gene, I am not ashamed so much as pissed off at a guy who is as old as I, who evidently never found a way to do things right. Let alone hold back information that he might have known at the time of purchase.

If I cut the long studs down to normal size, what would be the best method to go about it?

Now, a new problem arises. The axle nuts are loose. I have put 1500 plus miles on this thing and I have been driving around with a split pin basically holding the wheel on! The drums want to come off when I pull on them, however they won't go all the way. Maybe brake drums hanging up or key way? Any thoughts?
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Try an Axle shim
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

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Originally Posted by Dirtrack49 View Post
Now, a new problem arises. The axle nuts are loose. I have put 1500 plus miles on this thing and I have been driving around with a split pin basically holding the wheel on! The drums want to come off when I pull on them, however they won't go all the way. Maybe brake drums hanging up or key way? Any thoughts?
In my opinion, it's time to pull the drums and do a thorough inspection of drums, hubs, wheel studs, bearings, brakes, axle taper, key and keyway, axle nut etc.

You are already aware that mechanically you have some issues there. Don't repeat the mistakes of the prior owner. Randy Gross can supply you with cast iron drums and whatever brake components you may need.

If indeed you are still running the original steel drums, they likely are worn out. The hub has the wrong studs... why not replace drums, hubs, and studs properly swaged.

If the drum was running "loose" on the axle taper, you may have other issues such as a worn out keyway, bad key, bearings, and seals.

I believe it is very premature, if not unsafe, to suggest fixing this by merely shortening the studs to remove the washers.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

As to the long studs I would cut them to the same length that the other drums have installed. FIRST I would install a nut (I don't know is the lug nut would be to high) but a nut of the same thread. Then cut them off with a cut off tool. Try to take the burr off that the cut off wheel will leave, than remove the nut. Threads should be good.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Even if the stud holes are not flogged out, I'd use the washers. They are cheap insurance.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Not to the question as I think it’s been adequately covered

I’d be curious if the replaced studs are done correctly. I’d likely pull the drum and look at the back side.

If they were inept enough to put wrong studs I’d bet money they weren’t swedged properly
Likely future problem???

Last edited by Oldbluoval; 09-08-2021 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

I re-torque my lug nuts every 2 - 300 hundred miles, or whenever I'm going to be out running at higher speeds for a significant length of time. I've waited too long in the past and lost a lug nut and nearly a couple more. (64 foot pounds)

Beware guys. Forewarned is forearmed??? LOL

I use the washers to protect my purty yaller wheels.
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Last edited by Rob Doe; 09-08-2021 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

One other thing to check regarding those washers is the lug nuts themselves. My car came with washers. The wheels were good. I found that all of the lug nuts were the bad reproduction ones without the proper relief cut at the end. They would bottom out on the stud before tightening the wheel correctly. So make sure the nuts are correct before removing the washers! There have been a couple of recent threads on this posted here.
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

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Originally Posted by Dirtrack49 View Post
This car was cosmetically restored pretty well. Unfortunately for me at least, whoever did the mechanicals, should never had been allowed to reach for a wrench.
Many of us who purchase "restored" vehicles have found this to be the case. My pickup was restored in the late '70's by a body-and-fender guy. Looks great, but I've spent the last two years sorting out various mechanical and electrical issues he snarfed up either by omission or commission. (And I'm finding some body issues that could have been done differently...) But it keeps life interesting. All in all, messed up as the truck may be, I hope my mechanicals are doing as well when I'm 91 years old.

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Old 09-08-2021, 10:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

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Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
In my opinion, it's time to pull the drums and do a thorough inspection of drums, hubs, wheel studs, bearings, brakes, axle taper, key and keyway, axle nut etc.
Ditto
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:11 PM   #16
Dirtrack49
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Grutter, katy, that is what I will be doing this afternoon. I agree, since just about everything I have found on this vehicle has been botched, I need to look further into each item before coming to any quick and simple solutions. If I get lucky, those quick fixes will become a reality.
So far my good news is that the wheels are in good shape. All holes checked good using a lug nut. Also, all nuts are of the correct type with the proper relief.
Thanks to everyone for your help so far. I will report back as to what I find.
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Old 09-08-2021, 07:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

I deleted Previous post because:



1. My reply was based on the fact that the studs were Swedged correctly and just too long.

Since they are not swedged correctly my reply is of no value.

Last edited by Benson; 09-15-2021 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:25 PM   #18
GRutter
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

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Originally Posted by Dirtrack49 View Post
Grutter, katy, that is what I will be doing this afternoon.
Good to hear, and please report back. If nothing else, you will have peace of mind knowing what you have, and what you need to do mechanically to restore to safe operating condition.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:00 PM   #19
Dirtrack49
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Pulled the drums last night. The one with the long studs may be welded. Not sure, welded or swedged. There is some type of maybe epoxy over the heads. See picture below. The left side is swedged.
The axle ends are galled. The axle nuts go down pretty far and I may not be able to catch the split pin on the nut without a shim. Also, on the right side, they used a axle washer that was oversized, which allowed it to sit on the outside of the hub instead of sitting on the recess as the other side does.
So, I need to order some parts. Shims, axle washers, axle fiber washers, new keys, etc.
I really don't want to pull these axles if I can safely bring these axle nuts up tight.
What I will do with the long studs is either find another drum, cut the studs to normal size, or go back to the spacers.
Any thoughts as to how I should proceed?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1930 Town Sedan rt rr drum.jpg (46.9 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg 1930 Town Sedan rr rt drum.jpg (37.1 KB, 288 views)
File Type: jpg 1930 Town Sedan rr axle.jpg (35.3 KB, 83 views)
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:15 PM   #20
Keith True
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Default Re: Wheel Washers

Your studs are not swedged in.Also,it looks like somebody used serrated studs out of a modern car.They are much too long .There should be nothing but the conical swedge and threads showing.If you cut the studs down so the lug stays tight you will be able to tighten it up,but it will come back to bite you.At some point you will try to take a lug nut off and the whole thing will spin.
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