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Old 09-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #1
Mike 1931
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Default grinds in all gears

Hi,
I am working on a 30 coupe and my question is when trying to shift into first the trans grinds a lot before it will go into gear.
The engine r.p.m. is very low and the clutch is adjusted properly, I removed the inspection plate in the bell housing and the throu out bearing is not spinning with the clutch out. I suspect something is dragging but I dont know, the engine was just installed 2 months ago by the owner.
Any help would be great before I have to pull the rear and trans.

Mike1931
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #2
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

With the clutch pedal depressed is the trans input shaft turning?? What do you have for lube in the tranny??
Paul in CT
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

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Originally Posted by Mike 1931 View Post
Hi,
I am working on a 30 coupe and my question is when trying to shift into first the trans grinds a lot before it will go into gear.
The engine r.p.m. is very low and the clutch is adjusted properly, I removed the inspection plate in the bell housing and the throu out bearing is not spinning with the clutch out. I suspect something is dragging but I dont know, the engine was just installed 2 months ago by the owner.
Any help would be great before I have to pull the rear and trans.

Mike1931
Not that I know much (dont know how long you have drove A's) but I know when I was learning to drive them I leaned to shift a lot slower as they just dont shift into gear (only movement of shift lever, not foot work) slower then newer cars
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

I have found that with the heavy weight transmission oil, when it is cold it does grind a little when engaging first gear, once warmed up, it is less of an issue, you still need to be gentle. Also in my opinion, the heavier oils will slow the transmission gears more so than a 90 weight oil, which should assist in engaging first gear less grinding. As Paul in CT asked, what oil do you have in the tranmission?


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Old 09-03-2012, 02:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

As 1931 flamingo asked, make sure you have the proper 600 wt (as the venders sell it) in the tranny. It needs to be thick enough to slow the gears down enough for a proper mesh. Remember it's non synchronized.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

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Mike, I notice this was your first post. Welcome to the forum. You cannot really shift a Model A without grinding a bit if you shift it like a modern stickshift car... try this; Depress the clutch to the floor, wait a second or two, then aim the stick toward first with very little pressure and it should fall into place. Don't wind out the car too much in the gears before shifting... I believe the original owners manual (get a reprint if you do not have one; most parts houses have them) recommends 5-7 mph, then to second to 12-15 mph then third. In between shifts, move the stick gently thru neutral, then sort of let it "fall" into the next gear, again, just aiming it and a little gentle shove. That along with possibly double clutching, should give you quiet shifts. Double cluthing... clutch in, move the stick to neutral, clutch out, clutch in and shift to the next gear.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:29 PM   #7
Mike 1931
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

Thanks for all the input, I drained & serviced the trans with 600 w gear oil from Brattons, it seems like something is lagging. If you were to run at a higher r.p.m. like 3 clicks down on the quadrant that is what I am experiencing, no problems shifting, just acts like the idle is set way to high which it is not. I will look later this week and see if the input shaft is moving

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Old 09-03-2012, 03:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

There are two adjustment for the clutch. One is where you adjust the linkage to the clutch pedal. This adjustment positions the throw-out bearing back away from the fingers on the pressure plate. The other adjustment is supposed to be done by whoever assembled the pressure plate. However, many times this is not done correctly. This may be your problem in that the clutch is not fully engaging. You can check it through the inspection port in the bell housing. each finger should be positioned between 5\8" and 3\4" (11\16" being nominal) from the back surface of the pressure plate housing, and they should all be equal.

It is possible to re-adjust them using a screwdriver and a box wrench. You may first have to cut the area on each stud that is peened over.

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Old 09-03-2012, 06:53 PM   #9
Mike 1931
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

Thanks for the info I will let you k ow how I make out later this week

Mike 1931
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

Are you trying to shift into first while moving or sitting still?
Being its a non-syncronized trans shifting into first while moving requires double clutching.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #11
Mike 1931
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

No the car is stopped idle low and it grinds bad going into first gear every time.
I think his pressure ate is weak

Mike
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:35 PM   #12
Dave in Boise
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

look for a crack in the clutch lever that is mounted on the shaft on the outside of the bellhousing. I had a very small one and even thought I had adjusted everything correctly, it still would grind going into gear, as the lever would flex rather than properly rotate the shaft to engage the throwout. Often you need to have someone else depress the pedal while you look at the lever to see if there is any flex. mine looked great, but under pressure, you could definitely see the crack.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

If the vehicle has sat for a length of time,, there may be enough rust build-up to not allow the clutch to completely disengage.. Driving it for awhile should/may help scrape it away,, its kinda normal..
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

Maybe an issue with the pilot bearing.

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Old 09-04-2012, 05:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

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No the car is stopped idle low and it grinds bad going into first gear every time.
I think his pressure ate is weak

Mike
It is VERY simple.....The clutch is not disengaging completely when the pedal is on the floor.
Adjust the freeplay at the top of the pedal travel. (need less)
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:52 AM   #16
Mike 1931
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

The clutch adjustment is set properly, I adjusted the free play from zero clearance to 3 inches makes no difference. Now it is set to 1 inch free play and the throu out bearing is not spinning.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

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The clutch adjustment is set properly, I adjusted the free play from zero clearance to 3 inches makes no difference. Now it is set to 1 inch free play and the throu out bearing is not spinning.

Don't you love it when people respond by just reading the first post rather than following the entire thread?
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

If either of the two levers on the clutch shaft is cracked you can feel the 1 inch freeplay, but still not disengage the clutch disc even though you feel some resistence. The crack will spread and cause lost motion. Best to have someone push the clutch while you look for a crack, or you can remove the inspection cover for the clutch and view the T/O bearing movement while stepping down on the clutch. If this checks out fine, then maybe some clutch lining is stuck to the disc or flywheel, or a disc spring may have come out of place. Or, you may have a bent clutch disc. This can happen when someone lets the tranny weight hang on the clutch disc splines.

Even if you happen to have thin oil in the tranny, you should be able to double clutch and not grind, or wait a longer time when at a stop sign and the clutch disc should eventually stop spinning with the clutch pedal depressed.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

I had a similar issue with one of my model a's and found that the nuts on the pressure plate fingers had not been locked in properly and some had come loose quite a distance. This made it impossible to get freeplay and the clutch disengaged with the pedal stroke. After properly adjusting these nuts and locking them in place, everything worked fantastic. maybe worth looking through the inspection plate and looking to see that the nuts are all about the same adjustment.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: grinds in all gears

Hi all. Have just come across this post....just a thought. Is it possible for the clutch disc to have been installed wrong way about and not allowing sufficient movement for clutch fingers to fully disengage clutch?
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